Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Atheists die younger

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Interesting paper from JAMA. I couldn't access the LA Times - it won't open in Europe.

    However, as the paper's conclusion suggests "for patients who are already religious, service attendance might be encouraged as a form of meaningful social participation."

    Group identity and a support network are important factors in human behaviours. We are social animals after all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whatsisface
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    What I'm saying is that Sweden might have a higher life expectancy than other more religious nations because it has a better diet or something. In order to compare like with like, we would have to compare the life expectancy WITHIN SWEDEN of those who are religiously affiliated to those who are not, just as we did with those in the US.
    From the same article I linked to....
    When we compare people living in the same country, religious people enjoy a health advantage if they are part of a large majority, as is true of the U.S. That advantage disappears if religious people are in the minority.
    Why? One plausible reason that non religious people in the U.S. have worse health is that they are largely excluded from participation in politics, and find that they have less of a role to play in their local communities because religious people consider them unworthy. One key reason for this is that churches play a central role in organizing charities and civic organizations.

    In predominantly secular countries, community involvement is very high (6) so that atheists are much more active in their communities than they would be in a comparatively religious country such as the U.S. Instead of feeling like second class citizens, the non religious are fully integrated in their communities with all of the health advantages this brings. So what had looked like advantages of religion could be simply an advantage of being in the mainstream.
    It seems that this subject is linking in to discrimination against atheists as discused earlier in this thread, that you dismissed as whining.
    Last edited by Whatsisface; 07-21-18, 11:37 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Whatsisface View Post

    This isn't clear. What are you trying to say? Did you forget a question mark at the end?

    What I'm saying is that Sweden might have a higher life expectancy than other more religious nations because it has a better diet or something. In order to compare like with like, we would have to compare the life expectancy WITHIN SWEDEN of those who are religiously affiliated to those who are not, just as we did with those in the US.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whatsisface
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    And in those secular societies, comparing religiously affiliated folks to those not religiously affiliated, who lives longer.
    This isn't clear. What are you trying to say? Did you forget a question mark at the end?


    Leave a comment:


  • Whatsisface
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    My objection is that the amount atheists are discriminated against is not worthy of you making the big deal of it that you are. You are coming across like its the worst thing ever, post after post after post, and it's just so much whining.
    GENEVA (Reuters) - Atheists and other religious skeptics suffer persecution or discrimination in many parts of the world and in at least seven nations can be executed if their beliefs become known, according to a report issued on Monday.

    The study, from the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU), showed that “unbelievers” in Islamic countries face the most severe - sometimes brutal - treatment at the hands of the state and adherents of the official religion.

    But it also points to policies in some European countries and the United States which favor the religious and their organizations and treat atheists and humanists as outsiders.
    While freedom of religion and speech is protected in the United States, the report said, a social and political climate prevails “in which atheists and the non-religious are made to feel like lesser Americans, or non-Americans.”

    In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars an atheist from testifying as a witness at a trial, the report said.
    Anecdotally, i have heard atheists talk of their fear of coming out to their parents. I have heard of people being disowned by parents because they are atheists. I have heard of people being snubbed by the comunity they live in for being atheist.

    Article found here....https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...discrimination

    Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to. Will Gervais at the University of British Columbia recently published a set of studies looking at why atheists are so disliked. His conclusion: It comes down to trust.
    Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian. In a different study, Gervais looked at how atheism influences people’s hiring decisions. People were asked to choose between an atheist or a religious candidate for a job requiring either a high or low degree of trust. For the high-trust job of daycare worker, people were more likely to prefer the religious candidate.
    Article for the above found here....https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...s-we-distrust/

    It seems this subject is more complex than you might think. In this light, your emotive accusation of whining does not come across well.
    Last edited by Whatsisface; 07-20-18, 10:12 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Whatsisface View Post

    But, you seem to be taking the article at face value. Did you read the whole study or just the abstract that you linked to?

    Here is a clip from another article about this subject...

    ,,,found here...https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...ly-live-longer

    Rather than looking for ways to incorporate as much religion in my life as I could, would I not be better off moving to secular Sweden?
    And in those secular societies, comparing religiously affiliated folks to those not religiously affiliated, who lives longer.

    You have to compare like to like.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whatsisface
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    Technically, even if religion were more adaptable, it would not prove the atheist position wrong.

    But if I were an atheist, knowing my quality of life was less than, I'd at least give religion a second looksy to see what it has to offer and why, as perhaps I might have missed something significant.

    I might look for ways to incorporate as much religion in my life as I could without violating my beliefs. Looking for a "higher power" of some sort, exploring non-theistic religions, or attending an atheist church.

    I guess what I'm saying is that there are two different ways an atheist can approach religion. Let me give the analogy of how a non-observant Jew might approach Jewish law. He might say to himself, "There's no way I'm going to go all day on Saturday without switching on and off light switches in my house. Forget the Torah, I'm having none of it!" Or he might say to himself, "I'm not going to think about all of the 613 mitzvot. All I'm going to think about is thou shalt not steal. I'm going to resolve to stop swiping little things from the office." In the first case he sees it as an all or nothing deal and dumps it all. In the second case he sees it as a continuum that he can find a spot for himself on. My suggestion is, considering that science is revealing real advantages to being religious, try to find a comfortable spot on the continuum, instead of throwing out the whole thing.
    But, you seem to be taking the article at face value. Did you read the whole study or just the abstract that you linked to?

    Here is a clip from another article about this subject...
    In the U.S. some health researchers are fond of giving religion the credit for boosting life expectancy. Yet despite being a nation with a large religious majority, Americans have much lower life expectancy than is enjoyed by secular countries at a similar level of economic development such as Japan and Sweden.
    ,,,found here...https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...ly-live-longer

    Rather than looking for ways to incorporate as much religion in my life as I could, would I not be better off moving to secular Sweden?

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Occam View Post
    So your objection to the claim that atheists are discriminated against is that some groups are discriminated against more? That's not a good objection.
    My objection is that the amount atheists are discriminated against is not worthy of you making the big deal of it that you are. You are coming across like its the worst thing ever, post after post after post, and it's just so much whining.

    Lets put the internet aside, because we all know the net is full of trolls of all sorts. In real life, have you ever be accosted on the streets for being an atheist? Because I have been accosted for being a Jew. Do you know anyone close by who has been shot for being an atheist? Because I know two men who were shot going to morning prayers at the shul down the street. The synagogue I went to was set on fire by a bomb. I just doubt that you've been through anything like what I've been through. I don't think atheists know what persecution is really like. You guys have it pretty easy.
    Last edited by Open Heart; 07-20-18, 08:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    According to another study Protestants are more likely to commit suicide than Catholics.

    Your point?
    Glad I'm a Catholic then.

    Not only that...

    Compared with women who never participated in religious services, women who attended any religious service once a week or more were five times less likely to commit suicide between 1996 and 2010, says a study publishedWednesday by JAMA Psychiatry.

    http://www.latimes.com/science/scien...nap-story.html


    On a related note, Gallup released a survey yesterday that shows approximately 9 in 10 Americans believe in God. But as we learned from the JAMA Psychiatry study, only those who regularly attend religious services are less likely to commit suicide.
    In other words, mere belief, and amorphous expressions of spirituality, aren’t enough to ward off the demons that trigger suicide. And no group is more at risk than atheists.

    https://www.catholicleague.org/suici...lic-advantage/
    Last edited by Open Heart; 07-20-18, 07:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Occam
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    And Jews are only 2%, but make up more than half of religious hate crimes. Again, become a Jew, and THEN talk to me about victimization. To me, it's only so much whining.
    So your objection to the claim that atheists are discriminated against is that some groups are discriminated against more? That's not a good objection.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    One of the evidences of greater adaptability is longevity. Simply put, research reveals that religious people live longer. Here is part of the abstract of another recent study:

    Self-reported religious service attendance has been linked with longevity. However, previous work has largely relied on self-report data and volunteer samples. Here, mention of a religious affiliation in obituaries was analyzed as an alternative measure of religiosity. In two samples (N= 505 from Des Moines, IA, and N = 1,096 from 42 U.S. cities), the religiously affiliated lived 9.45 and 5.64 years longer, respectively, than the nonreligiously affiliated. Additionally, social integration and volunteerism partially mediated the religion–longevity relation.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full...48550618779820
    According to another study Protestants are more likely to commit suicide than Catholics.

    Your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by HRG View Post

    However, religious differences (like Catholics vs. Orthodox, Sunnites vs. Shi'ites) are the basis for the "we against the others"-thinking which can contribute to wars.
    Oh Please. English verses French is a far more common form of us verses them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Occam View Post
    Atheists and agnostics only make up 7% of the US population, so that's a relatively high rate of victimization.
    And Jews are only 2%, but make up more than half of religious hate crimes. Again, become a Jew, and THEN talk to me about victimization. To me, it's only so much whining.

    Leave a comment:


  • America
    replied
    Originally posted by HRG View Post

    However, religious differences (like Catholics vs. Orthodox, Sunnites vs. Shi'ites) are the basis for the "we against the others"-thinking which can contribute to wars.
    Sure, but I would go much further, saying that underlying religious b1gotry is a motive in the initiation of such conflicts.

    It's not that people necessarily kill each other ONLY due to religious affiliation, but those affiliations are often part of the justification for the killing.

    Leave a comment:


  • HRG
    replied
    Originally posted by America View Post
    For the record, I wouldn't ever suggest religion was the cause of most wars. In the last 100 years, it certainly hasn't been the overt cause of a substantial number of wars, either.
    However, religious differences (like Catholics vs. Orthodox, Sunnites vs. Shi'ites) are the basis for the "we against the others"-thinking which can contribute to wars.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X