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Atheists die younger

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  • Occam
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    I live in the US and I've never heard of a single instance of a hate crime against atheists. If it happens, it's so infrequent that it's statistically insignificant.

    According to the FBI, if you look at at the 1402 religion based hate crimes of 2015, 52.1 were anti-Jewish. Only 0.1% were against athiests/agnostics. That was less than every other group except Buddhists, including less than Catholics and Protestants.
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/.../victims_final

    Basically, Occam, if you want to complain about persecution, first become a Jew. Then I'll listen to you.
    Atheists and agnostics only make up 7% of the US population, so that's a relatively high rate of victimization.

    Leave a comment:


  • America
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    Always a pleasure to chat with you.

    Perhaps at some other time we can start a thread about whether religion is truly the cause of most wars, or whether it is land and resources.

    Your friend,
    OH
    For the record, I wouldn't ever suggest religion was the cause of most wars. In the last 100 years, it certainly hasn't been the overt cause of a substantial number of wars, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Occam View Post
    I've heard of atheists having their car windows smashed in my area (I live in the United States).
    I live in the US and I've never heard of a single instance of a hate crime against atheists. If it happens, it's so infrequent that it's statistically insignificant.

    According to the FBI, if you look at at the 1402 religion based hate crimes of 2015, 52.1 were anti-Jewish. Only 0.1% were against athiests/agnostics. That was less than every other group except Buddhists, including less than Catholics and Protestants.
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/.../victims_final

    Basically, Occam, if you want to complain about persecution, first become a Jew. Then I'll listen to you.
    Last edited by Open Heart; 07-17-18, 12:12 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkUK View Post

    What's your point?

    Religious people live longer, therefore... what?
    That's what I'm asking you. It's an open ended inquiry. I'm not trying to shove a point.

    I did suggest in a LATER post that when you combine this research with other research indicating that people who are religiously affiliated are happier and healthier, one might say that religion is more adaptable. However, it was only a hypothesis.

    It is my hope that by being on this forum I will open atheist minds to the possibility of theism, but 1. I'm never going to do that by being either confrontational or disingenuous and 2. I am ALWAYS open to learning myself, and I can't learn unless I listen to those with different views. I opened the thread because I would honestly like to know why religious folks live longer.
    Last edited by Open Heart; 07-16-18, 11:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by America View Post
    A thoughtful response as usual. Thanks!

    As an atheist, I readily concede that there can be benefits to religious belief. I would also submit that there are liabilities as well, though. For example, if we accept that Happiness is found more often in the religious, we should also keep in mind that Guilt is as well. You expressed a desire to know why religious people are happier, and I suspect the answers will explain why religious people feel a bunch of things more often than the non-religious.

    I would also point to the rather obvious (and tired) objection to religion as a source of societal/cultural conflict. Believers throughout history have "happily" slaughtered people of other faiths. Atheists have nothing even close to this phenomenon on large scales.

    I'm not intending to criticize religious belief here. I'm only saying that it doesn't surprise me that believers feel things stronger or more often than non-believers do. There may be many reasons for this, and I'd be speculating if I offered guesses. On the whole, however, I'd say the jury is still out as to whether religious belief is better for people/society in general.

    I would rather be miserable while knowing the truth than happy while thinking (incorrectly) that I knew the truth. If this leads me to having a shorter life, I'm not bothered by it.

    ps. yes, I just assumed I know more than believers do. I'm asking for a little rhetorical licence
    Always a pleasure to chat with you.

    Perhaps at some other time we can start a thread about whether religion is truly the cause of most wars, or whether it is land and resources.

    Your friend,
    OH

    Leave a comment:


  • Zaphod
    replied
    Originally posted by bob1 View Post
    Someone should tell a certain Oneness cultist that.
    Him and others. Lots of Christians will take that line when they feel itís convenient.

    Leave a comment:


  • JamesTheLesser
    replied
    Originally posted by Occam View Post
    That's possible, but I doubt it. Car-window-smashing vandals aren't known for being terribly intellectual and discriminating.
    Perhaps, they are known for seeing something in your car and breaking a window to get it, or to just take your car.

    Of course it is always possible that window breaking is a sign the owner is an atheist. This would be super confirmation bias.

    For instance Frank thinks they smashed his window because he has exposed a chem trail conspiracy. That's always possible as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Occam
    replied
    Originally posted by aussiedave View Post
    Seems that if you call yourself an "atheist" then you are aligning yourself with a particular group. These may be the "strong atheists".
    Simply being a-theist may be viewed as simply not believing. "Weak atheism"?
    Agnosticism also falls into the non-believer, non-affiliated group.
    That's possible, but I doubt it. Car-window-smashing vandals aren't known for being terribly intellectual and discriminating.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussiedave
    replied
    Originally posted by Occam View Post
    I've heard of atheists having their car windows smashed in my area (I live in the United States).
    Seems that if you call yourself an "atheist" then you are aligning yourself with a particular group. These may be the "strong atheists".
    Simply being a-theist may be viewed as simply not believing. "Weak atheism"?
    Agnosticism also falls into the non-believer, non-affiliated group.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussiedave
    replied
    Originally posted by Nouveau View Post

    It is an excuse.
    Hmm...you are always preaching that atheism is a religion - does this study then prove it isn't?

    Leave a comment:


  • bob1
    replied
    Originally posted by Zaphod View Post

    So atheism ISNT a religion now and atheists ARENT religious all of a sudden? Ooooo. Kkkkkkkk.
    Someone should tell a certain Oneness cultist that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Occam
    replied
    Originally posted by Tyrrho View Post
    While that may be true, it's not what I would call discrimination.
    I've heard of atheists having their car windows smashed in my area (I live in the United States).

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkUK
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    One of the evidences of greater adaptability is longevity. Simply put, research reveals that religious people live longer. Here is part of the abstract of another recent study:

    Self-reported religious service attendance has been linked with longevity. However, previous work has largely relied on self-report data and volunteer samples. Here, mention of a religious affiliation in obituaries was analyzed as an alternative measure of religiosity. In two samples (N= 505 from Des Moines, IA, and N = 1,096 from 42 U.S. cities), the religiously affiliated lived 9.45 and 5.64 years longer, respectively, than the nonreligiously affiliated. Additionally, social integration and volunteerism partially mediated the religion–longevity relation.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full...48550618779820
    What's your point?

    Religious people live longer, therefore... what?

    Leave a comment:


  • America
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    Well, first, I find these results surprising. I would have thought there would be no difference.

    My second thought was, what factor is it about religious affiliation that makes the religious live longer? The strong communal relations? Weekly singing aloud? Frequent pot lucks? Researchers really need to start nailing down the specifics.

    My third thought was that a pattern is forming, which I alluded to in my post. I'm not going to document it because I don't want the thread to go off onto a tangent, but it seems religious affiliation is correlated with a set of related states: happiness, healthiness, and longevity. IOW it seems that religious affiliation makes for a better quality of life in general. I believe the statistics are also true that religious folks have more kids. I'd have to double check on that. But it makes me wonder if religion isn't just downright more ADAPTABLE.

    As always, I'm just thinking. I'm sifting through facts and forming hypotheses that need further testing.

    Technically, even if religion were more adaptable, it would not prove the atheist position wrong.

    But if I were an atheist, knowing my quality of life was less than, I'd at least give religion a second looksy to see what it has to offer and why, as perhaps I might have missed something significant. I might look for ways to incorporate as much religion in my life as I could without violating my beliefs. Looking for a "higher power" of some sort, exploring non-theistic religions, or attending an atheist church.

    I guess what I'm saying is that there are two different ways an atheist can approach religion. Let me give the analogy of how a non-observant Jew might approach Jewish law. He might say to himself, "There's no way I'm going to go all day on Saturday without switching on and off light switches in my house. Forget the Torah, I'm having none of it!" Or he might say to himself, "I'm not going to think about all of the 613 mitzvot. All I'm going to think about is thou shalt not steal. I'm going to resolve to stop swiping little things from the office." In the first case he sees it as an all or nothing deal and dumps it all. In the second case he sees it as a continuum that he can find a spot for himself on. My suggestion is, considering that science is revealing real advantages to being religious, try to find a comfortable spot on the continuum, instead of throwing out the whole thing.
    A thoughtful response as usual. Thanks!

    As an atheist, I readily concede that there can be benefits to religious belief. I would also submit that there are liabilities as well, though. For example, if we accept that Happiness is found more often in the religious, we should also keep in mind that Guilt is as well. You expressed a desire to know why religious people are happier, and I suspect the answers will explain why religious people feel a bunch of things more often than the non-religious.

    I would also point to the rather obvious (and tired) objection to religion as a source of societal/cultural conflict. Believers throughout history have "happily" slaughtered people of other faiths. Atheists have nothing even close to this phenomenon on large scales.

    I'm not intending to criticize religious belief here. I'm only saying that it doesn't surprise me that believers feel things stronger or more often than non-believers do. There may be many reasons for this, and I'd be speculating if I offered guesses. On the whole, however, I'd say the jury is still out as to whether religious belief is better for people/society in general.

    I would rather be miserable while knowing the truth than happy while thinking (incorrectly) that I knew the truth. If this leads me to having a shorter life, I'm not bothered by it.

    ps. yes, I just assumed I know more than believers do. I'm asking for a little rhetorical licence
    Last edited by America; 07-13-18, 09:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
    So why do non-Christian countries have longer longevities than the Christian countries, and is that because the aim of true-blue Christians is to kick the bucket as early as possible? https://www.infoplease.com/world/hea...cy-countries-0
    From your list, there were certainly a tremendous amount of non-Christian countries that had lower longevities than Christian countries.

    It seems to me that the list has a correlation with the quality of diet, not religion. Manaco has the highest longevity, and eats the classic Mediterranean diet that doctors say is so good for us.

    BTW, please don't confuse me with those that push a single minded agenda. I do not push Christianity in this particular forum, but advocate simple theism. This thread was about religius affiliation which could refer to Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Toaism, Hinduism, etc. Indeed, I believe it could even refer to Atheists that attend atheist churches.
    Last edited by Open Heart; 07-13-18, 07:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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