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And ANOTHER one - pixie claims: the Christian God... does not exist

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  • And ANOTHER one - pixie claims: the Christian God... does not exist

    Pixie claims:

    Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

    https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
    Post #28

    Can she present evidence for this claim?
    "darwin/nature is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"óme

  • #2
    Originally posted by ferengi View Post
    Pixie claims: the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

    Can she present evidence for this claim?
    Of course "she" can. ALL God's Chilluns gots "Evidences".

    Will the "Evidence" be persuasive to anybody but "her" (and others of like mind)???

    No. But that's what we do here.

    Simple as that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
      Of course "she" can. ALL God's Chilluns gots "Evidences". Will the "Evidence" be persuasive to anybody but "her" (and others of like mind)??? No. But that's what we do here. Simple as that.
      if she can let her bring it forth
      "darwin/nature is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"óme

      Comment


      • #4
        Why should he bother wasting his time?
        “We have won against Oneness. Our boys, our young women, our men — they’re all coming back home, and they’re coming back now.”

        ~ Donald J Trump

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by America View Post
          Why should he bother wasting his time?
          Avoiding the OP as you must - oh and shifting the burden
          "darwin/nature is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"óme

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ferengi View Post
            if she can let her bring it forth
            WELL HEY!!!!! That's all the "Atheists/Agnostics" do here to dump their "evidence" that's so convincing (or maybe not so convincing) to them, and means absolutely NOTHING to Born again Christians.

            I Added The qualifier: "Born again" to differentiate between "Religious Christians" who are nothing more than "Agnostics", and "Born Again Christians", who actually HAVE a spiritual relationship with God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bob carabbio View Post
              well hey!!!!! That's all the "atheists/agnostics" do here to dump their "evidence" that's so convincing (or maybe not so convincing) to them, and means absolutely nothing to born again christians.

              I added the qualifier: "born again" to differentiate between "religious christians" who are nothing more than "agnostics", and "born again christians", who actually have a spiritual relationship with god.
              ok
              "darwin/nature is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"óme

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ferengi View Post

                ok
                Projection
                ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ferengi View Post
                  Pixie claims:

                  Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

                  https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
                  Post #28

                  Can she present evidence for this claim?
                  Once again, you cannot provide a refutation of this claim.
                  Telling.
                  With all the conflicting religious beliefs in the world, they can’t all be right. But they can all be wrong.
                  Herb Silverman.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aussiedave View Post
                    Once again, you cannot provide a refutation of this claim.
                    Telling.
                    No need to refute what has not been supported evidentially by the claimant.
                    "darwin/nature is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"óme

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ferengi View Post

                      No need to refute what has not been supported evidentially by the claimant.
                      Then why did you bother to reply at all?
                      I think you've got nothing and it shows.
                      You are so flustered, you even spam your own thread. Lol.
                      With all the conflicting religious beliefs in the world, they can’t all be right. But they can all be wrong.
                      Herb Silverman.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ferengi View Post
                        Pixie claims:

                        Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

                        https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
                        Post #28

                        Can she present evidence for this claim?
                        Sure Pixie can present evidence. OP has just been addressed and answered. Next!
                        If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. - Voltaire

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ferengi View Post
                          Pixie claims:

                          Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

                          https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
                          Post #28

                          Can she present evidence for this claim?
                          Pretty shocking to find an atheist who does not believe exists. Not sure what I would label an atheists who believes G-d exists.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ferengi View Post
                            Pixie claims:

                            Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

                            https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
                            Post #28

                            Can she present evidence for this claim?
                            1. The Problem of Suffering

                            God could, if he wanted to, stop all suffering in an instant. He could create a world where everyone is happy.

                            In fact, according to Christianity he has already done so; it is called heaven. Heaven is somewhere all Christians aspire to. Either they expect to have free will there, or free will is not so important after all. Either way, God has allegedly managed to create heaven, so we know that according to Christianity he could make this world free of suffering too.

                            He chooses not. And that is incompatible with his being all-loving.

                            Sure you can argue he has some other agenda, but then you are saying his love for us matters less than his other agenda. Christians often trot out examples like vaccination, in which the long term benefit is good. They conveniently forget God is supposed to be all-powerful. Any parent who chooses a painful option over a painless one is allowing needless suffering.

                            Mankind has wiped out smallpox and polio could be on its way too. That has stopped a lot of suffering. God chose not to do that. I think mankind was right to eliminate smallpox. Every time God allows suffering to continue he is ignoring Jesus' instruction in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Thus Christianity shows itself to be inconsistent, and so can be rejected.

                            Just to be clear, I am assuming:
                            * God is all-powerful and all-loving
                            * God loves each and every one of us
                            * All-loving implies the individual wants to reduce suffering as much as possible in those he or she loves
                            * Some people suffer


                            2. The Problem of Evil

                            Christians will also say that without God we have no standard of measuring evil.

                            Actually, we can use the Christian standard of right and wrong here. Against the Christian standard, God allows evil to flourish.

                            If Christianity is right, then God allows Satan, the Prince of Darkness, to exist when he has the choice to destroy him. To allow evil (as defined by Christianity) to flourish when you can prevent it is not good (as defined by Christianity). Thus, there is an inherent contradiction in the claims of Christianity.

                            Please note that this argument does not require that the concept of evil exists outside Christianity. It does not matter what atheist morality says; it depends on what Christianity says.


                            3. The Fall

                            Most Christians accept the concept of original sin - that everyone (except Jesus and maybe Mary) is born in a state of sin inherited from Adam. Further, this is the reason for suffering in the world (eg here and here).

                            The idea that everyone should suffer for the supposed sin of one person - someone unable to tell right from wrong - is nonsense. It is a morality no one on Earth follows. Humans punish the perpetrator of a crime, not his descendants. Even the Bible insists on this.

                            Why would anyone think it is moral for God to punish the 7 billion people in the world today for what Adam did thousands of years ago?

                            All the parasites in the world, all the forms of cancer, all the diseases; God engineered (or re-engineered) them all when he was punishing Adam. All the animals that we know today as carnivores were, according to some Christians at least, re-engineered from plant-eating to meat-eating. All because two people disobeyed him. All that suffering is ultimately down to God, who chose that specific punishment.

                            And that is what happened. God chose to curse us as a result of what Adam did. The Fall happened when God found out about Adam eating the fruit and chose to punish him. It did not happen when the sin was commited.

                            God engineered the system that allowed the fall to happen (he chose to create the Tree of Knowledge, and to place it near at hand), knowing full well in advance that it would happen.

                            This is the god that Christians think I should love and worship.

                            Showing how far Christians will contort their minds, William Dembski acknowledges that there was suffering in the world long before Adam and Eve, but argues that they were still responsible, because God knew that they were going to disobey him. Apparently is was beyond God to stop them disobeying him. Or to get a sense of proportion.
                            http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-End-Chri.../dp/0805427430

                            I appreciate not all Christians believe this, which brings us to...


                            4. Disparate Cults

                            Christians believe a lot of different things. Some think the planet was created 6000 years about, some 4 billion. Some think homosexuality is wrong, some that it is okay. Some thought slavery was okay, nowadays they think it is wrong.

                            As an atheist, I find that easy to explain. There is no god communicating with these people, so why would we expect them to all agree? However, if Christianity is true, we would expect God to communicate. He is, supposedly, all-powerful. We are, supposedly, important to him. He could make us all understand in an instant if he wanted to. He could talk to key people - his own priests who regularly and frequently pray to him and often claim to know God's will.

                            Instead we see an estimated 43,000 different denominations, all with their own twists on Christianity. Thankfully they no long see fit to burn people in other denominations as they once did, but many still believe God will do that for them. They actually think God will send their fellow Christians to hell for getting the details wrong.

                            Plenty of protestants think Catholics are not even Christians and that the Pope is the anti-Christ! About half of all Christians are catholic. Either the protestants who think they are not Christians are very messed up in their theology or God has lost half his followers to the anti-Christ. That is some failure. By the way, if Catholics are not Christians, then Christianity is about as popular as Hinduism (and Satanism, if the pope is the anti-Christ), and some way behind Islam.

                            The only explanation I can see for all these different beliefs is that there is no intelligence behind it all pushing them in the right direction. There is no God.

                            Please note that the argument is not that there are disparate cults, therefore they are all wrong. The argument is that if God existed he would want and be able to ensure his followers understood his message; there are many disparate cults; therefore many of his followers do not understand his message, therefore there is no God behind that message.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ferengi View Post
                              Pixie claims:

                              Because the Christian God (one who is all powerful, all loving and perfectly moral) does not exist!

                              https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/se...e2?view=thread
                              Post #28

                              Can she present evidence for this claim?
                              1. The Problem of Suffering

                              God could, if he wanted to, stop all suffering in an instant. He could create a world where everyone is happy.

                              In fact, according to Christianity he has already done so; it is called heaven. Heaven is somewhere all Christians aspire to. Either they expect to have free will there, or free will is not so important after all. Either way, God has allegedly managed to create heaven, so we know that according to Christianity he could make this world free of suffering too.

                              He chooses not. And that is incompatible with his being all-loving.

                              Sure you can argue he has some other agenda, but then you are saying his love for us matters less than his other agenda. Christians often trot out examples like vaccination, in which the long term benefit is good. They conveniently forget God is supposed to be all-powerful. Any parent who chooses a painful option over a painless one is allowing needless suffering.

                              Mankind has wiped out smallpox and polio could be on its way too. That has stopped a lot of suffering. God chose not to do that. I think mankind was right to eliminate smallpox. Every time God allows suffering to continue he is ignoring Jesus' instruction in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Thus Christianity shows itself to be inconsistent, and so can be rejected.

                              Just to be clear, I am assuming:
                              * God is all-powerful and all-loving
                              * God loves each and every one of us
                              * All-loving implies the individual wants to reduce suffering as much as possible in those he or she loves
                              * Some people suffer


                              2. The Problem of Evil

                              Christians will also say that without God we have no standard of measuring evil.

                              Actually, we can use the Christian standard of right and wrong here. Against the Christian standard, God allows evil to flourish.

                              If Christianity is right, then God allows Satan, the Prince of Darkness, to exist when he has the choice to destroy him. To allow evil (as defined by Christianity) to flourish when you can prevent it is not good (as defined by Christianity). Thus, there is an inherent contradiction in the claims of Christianity.

                              Please note that this argument does not require that the concept of evil exists outside Christianity. It does not matter what atheist morality says; it depends on what Christianity says.


                              3. The Fall

                              Most Christians accept the concept of original sin - that everyone (except Jesus and maybe Mary) is born in a state of sin inherited from Adam. Further, this is the reason for suffering in the world.

                              The idea that everyone should suffer for the supposed sin of one person - someone unable to tell right from wrong - is nonsense. It is a morality no one on Earth follows. Humans punish the perpetrator of a crime, not his descendants. Even the Bible insists on this.

                              Why would anyone think it is moral for God to punish the 7 billion people in the world today for what Adam did thousands of years ago?

                              All the parasites in the world, all the forms of cancer, all the diseases; God engineered (or re-engineered) them all when he was punishing Adam. All the animals that we know today as carnivores were, according to some Christians at least, re-engineered from plant-eating to meat-eating. All because two people disobeyed him. All that suffering is ultimately down to God, who chose that specific punishment.

                              And that is what happened. God chose to curse us as a result of what Adam did. The Fall happened when God found out about Adam eating the fruit and chose to punish him. It did not happen when the sin was commited.

                              God engineered the system that allowed the fall to happen (he chose to create the Tree of Knowledge, and to place it near at hand), knowing full well in advance that it would happen.

                              This is the god that Christians think I should love and worship.

                              Showing how far Christians will contort their minds, William Dembski acknowledges that there was suffering in the world long before Adam and Eve, but argues that they were still responsible, because God knew that they were going to disobey him. Apparently is was beyond God to stop them disobeying him. Or to get a sense of proportion.
                              http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-End-Chri.../dp/0805427430

                              I appreciate not all Christians believe this, which brings us to...


                              4. Disparate Cults

                              Christians believe a lot of different things. Some think the planet was created 6000 years about, some 4 billion. Some think homosexuality is wrong, some that it is okay. Some thought slavery was okay, nowadays they think it is wrong.

                              As an atheist, I find that easy to explain. There is no god communicating with these people, so why would we expect them to all agree? However, if Christianity is true, we would expect God to communicate. He is, supposedly, all-powerful. We are, supposedly, important to him. He could make us all understand in an instant if he wanted to. He could talk to key people - his own priests who regularly and frequently pray to him and often claim to know God's will.

                              Instead we see an estimated 43,000 different denominations, all with their own twists on Christianity. Thankfully they no long see fit to burn people in other denominations as they once did, but many still believe God will do that for them. They actually think God will send their fellow Christians to hell for getting the details wrong.

                              Plenty of protestants think Catholics are not even Christians and that the Pope is the anti-Christ! About half of all Christians are catholic. Either the protestants who think they are not Christians are very messed up in their theology or God has lost half his followers to the anti-Christ. That is some failure. By the way, if Catholics are not Christians, then Christianity is about as popular as Hinduism (and Satanism, if the pope is the anti-Christ), and some way behind Islam.

                              The only explanation I can see for all these different beliefs is that there is no intelligence behind it all pushing them in the right direction. There is no God.

                              Please note that the argument is not that there are disparate cults, therefore they are all wrong. The argument is that if God existed he would want and be able to ensure his followers understood his message; there are many disparate cults; therefore many of his followers do not understand his message, therefore there is no God behind that message.

                              Comment

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