Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

What would y'all EXPECT Him to stop IF He existed?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What would y'all EXPECT Him to stop IF He existed?

    Pixie says:

    "We would expect him to stop murderers and rapists."

    OK. Let's forget for a moment the divine methodology that would be required (make the potential rapist's zipper malfunction?), let's try ONCE AGAIN to establish thresholds for what you hard-nosed atheists would require of any postulated omni-benevolent god:

    And please, INITIALLY no philosophical lectures (they can follow), just a yes or no:


    Which of these must He stop:

    Shoplifting

    Cheating at cards

    Hurting Granny's feelings

    Manslaughter

    Needlessly killing a ladybug

    Pickpocketing

    Now, if you would be so kind as to suggest a method of divine thwarting for each for which you answered yes.

    LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FINALLY ESTABLISH THOSE THRESHOLDS.
    Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
    John Hancock

  • #2
    Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post
    Pixie says:

    "We would expect him to stop murderers and rapists."

    OK. Let's forget for a moment the divine methodology that would be required (make the potential rapist's zipper malfunction?), let's try ONCE AGAIN to establish thresholds for what you hard-nosed atheists would require of any postulated omni-benevolent god:

    And please, INITIALLY no philosophical lectures (they can follow), just a yes or no:


    Which of these must He stop:

    Shoplifting

    Cheating at cards

    Hurting Granny's feelings

    Manslaughter

    Needlessly killing a ladybug

    Pickpocketing

    Now, if you would be so kind as to suggest a method of divine thwarting for each for which you answered yes.

    LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FINALLY ESTABLISH THOSE THRESHOLDS.
    He wouldn't have to stop anything. IF He existed, the world would be unrecognisably different with no harm or threat of any kind. And probably very dull.
    Your belief in Julius Caesar proves the existence of God.
    CARM poster

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post
      Pixie says:

      "We would expect him to stop murderers and rapists."

      OK. Let's forget for a moment the divine methodology that would be required (make the potential rapist's zipper malfunction?), let's try ONCE AGAIN to establish thresholds for what you hard-nosed atheists would require of any postulated omni-benevolent god:

      And please, INITIALLY no philosophical lectures (they can follow), just a yes or no:


      Which of these must He stop:

      Shoplifting

      Cheating at cards

      Hurting Granny's feelings

      Manslaughter

      Needlessly killing a ladybug

      Pickpocketing
      To the extent that He wanted each of them stopped, yes, He would stop each of them.

      Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post
      Now, if you would be so kind as to suggest a method of divine thwarting for each for which you answered yes.

      LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FINALLY ESTABLISH THOSE THRESHOLDS.
      It'd be a waste of my time. He's all-powerful, not me; He could choose whatever method He desired. If he wanted pickpocketing stopped, he could destroy the entire planet, or he could limit human births only to whose people who'd never want to pick pockets. Why should I bother making ANY suggestion?
      “We have won against Oneness. Our boys, our young women, our men — they’re all coming back home, and they’re coming back now.”

      ~ Donald J Trump

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by America View Post

        To the extent that He wanted each of them stopped, yes, He would stop each of them.
        Yes. I. e, He does what He wants to do, but that gets us nowhere, so let's try this again:

        Which of these must He WANT TO stop:

        Shoplifting

        Cheating at cards

        Hurting Granny's feelings

        Manslaughter

        Needlessly killing a ladybug

        Pickpocketing

        Now, if you would be so kind as to suggest a method of divine thwarting for each for which you answered yes.

        LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FINALLY ESTABLISH THOSE THRESHOLDS.


        Now be able to prove that when He realizes that Billy is about to hurt Granny's feelings, He WANTS to stop Billy's actions, even though that will obviously not have a beneficial effect on Billy.
        Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
        John Hancock

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tolpuddlematyr View Post

          He wouldn't have to stop anything.
          Of course He wouldn't. He's God. What must He WANT TO stop?
          Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
          John Hancock

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

            Of course He wouldn't. He's God. What must He WANT TO stop?
            Sorry, but this is taking "what if" to ridiculous lengths. Speculating on the wants of a mythical being is utterly pointless. I can understand an argument on the lines of " If God, then the world looks like this..." and its counterpart, "If no god then the world looks like this..." We can compare the hypothetical worlds to see which is closer to the one we actually experience. Guessing what God would want to do should He find himself in a world that manifestly has nothing to do with any god, is a step too far.
            Your belief in Julius Caesar proves the existence of God.
            CARM poster

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tolpuddlematyr View Post

              Sorry, but this is taking "what if" to ridiculous lengths. Speculating on the wants of a mythical being is utterly pointless. I can understand an argument on the lines of " If God, then the world looks like this..." and its counterpart, "If no god then the world looks like this..." We can compare the hypothetical worlds to see which is closer to the one we actually experience. Guessing what God would want to do should He find himself in a world that manifestly has nothing to do with any god, is a step too far.
              So you can't answer. You think god SHOULD stop some free will actions, but you don't know where this allegedly omnipotent Being would be REQUIRED to draw the line in order to maintain His omni-benevolent status.
              Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
              John Hancock

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

                So you can't answer. You think god SHOULD stop some free will actions, but you don't know where this allegedly omnipotent Being would be REQUIRED to draw the line in order to maintain His omni-benevolent status.
                Why are you lying about my position? I think no such thing, nor do my posts support such a position.
                Your belief in Julius Caesar proves the existence of God.
                CARM poster

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tolpuddlematyr View Post

                  Why are you lying about my position?
                  I summarized it. But let's examine what I said and you can tell me wherein lies the lie. Here is what I said:

                  So you can't answer. You think god SHOULD stop some free will actions, but you don't know where this allegedly omnipotent Being would be REQUIRED to draw the line in order to maintain His omni-benevolent status.

                  "So you can't answer:" Not a lie, since you didn't.

                  "You think god SHOULD stop some free will actions," You do. No lie.

                  "but you don't know where this allegedly omnipotent Being would be REQUIRED to draw the line in order to maintain His omni-benevolent status."

                  You say that's a lie? You DO KNOW? Then where is it? Where's the line? Hurting Granny's feelings?



                  Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                  John Hancock

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

                    I summarized it. But let's examine what I said and you can tell me wherein lies the lie. Here is what I said:


                    "You think god SHOULD stop some free will actions," You do. No lie.
                    I don't think this. There's the lie.
                    Your belief in Julius Caesar proves the existence of God.
                    CARM poster

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tolpuddlematyr View Post

                      I don't think this.
                      Good. Neither do I.

                      Do you agree with me that the idea of God needing to intervene every time a free will act might result in an unpleasantry is a very stupid idea?
                      Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                      John Hancock

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

                        Yes. I. e, He does what He wants to do, but that gets us nowhere, so let's try this again:

                        Which of these must He WANT TO stop:[...]
                        Already answered.

                        If you're going to be childish, you can play by yourself.
                        “We have won against Oneness. Our boys, our young women, our men — they’re all coming back home, and they’re coming back now.”

                        ~ Donald J Trump

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by America View Post
                          Already answered.
                          Incorrect. It never was. Here it is again. See if you can answer this time.

                          Which of these must He stop:

                          Shoplifting

                          Cheating at cards

                          Hurting Granny's feelings

                          Manslaughter

                          Needlessly killing a ladybug

                          Pickpocketing
                          Last edited by stiggywiggy; 01-14-19, 03:36 PM.
                          Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                          John Hancock

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

                            Good. Neither do I.

                            Do you agree with me that the idea of God needing to intervene every time a free will act might result in an unpleasantry is a very stupid idea?
                            Would you agree with me that the idea of God, as described by Christians, is incompatible with the world as we find it? That the notion of an omni-benevolent omnipotent God is nonsense in a world with any unpleasantness of any kind?

                            The idea that God should fiddle about with His flawed creation is ridiculous. Either the world is completely free from evil, or it is completely free of a loving God.
                            Your belief in Julius Caesar proves the existence of God.
                            CARM poster

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tolpuddlematyr View Post

                              Would you agree with me that the idea of God, as described by Christians, is incompatible with the world as we find it?
                              No. It is VERY compatible.


                              The idea that God should fiddle about with His flawed creation is ridiculous.
                              Agreed. If you KNEW it was ridiculous, why did you bring it up? God doesn't fiddle with anything.
                              Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                              John Hancock

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X