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  • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

    Did you check the scriptures first?

    Exodus 21:16
    “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

    Galatians 5:1
    For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

    This passage creates the concept of "If you do any injustice to a slave, you must then set them free because of your error":

    Exodus 21:26-27
    “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.



    Deuteronomy 24:7
    “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

    Good stuff. I apologize for not making my sarcasm more obvious. As you can see from the replies, they really think that. I think it so absurd that just stating it, it is inherently refuted.
    Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
    John Hancock

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    • Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

      Good stuff. I apologize for not making my sarcasm more obvious. As you can see from the replies, they really think that. I think it so absurd that just stating it, it is inherently refuted.
      Oh. Sarcasm never works online. People assume you believe everything you write. Just as I assume about this comment I am replying to.
      - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bigthinker View Post

        Yes. But not just "CARM" atheists. MOST atheists. Morally speaking, Christians don't really have the ability to assess questions of morality on their own, they have to consult their god

        Whereas big thinking atheists consult their big thoughts. For example, if their big thoughts say it's OK to kill a baby in the womb, then by God, I mean by Big Thought, it's AOK to rip 'em to shreds.
        Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
        John Hancock

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        • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

          Romans 13:1-7
          Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience
          John 2:4
          "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? "
          “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
          Carl Sagan

          God is love.

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          • Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post
            Whereas big thinking atheists consult their big thoughts. For example, if their big thoughts say it's OK to kill a baby in the womb, then by God, I mean by Big Thought, it's AOK to rip 'em to shreds.
            As I understand it, a saline solution is injected into them, causing death.

            Said saline solution chemically burns them.

            Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
            THE BIBLE SAYS IT, THAT SETTLES IT.

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            • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

              John 2:4
              "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? "
              It's hard to argue with that.......what?
              - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

                It's hard to argue with that.......what?
                Exactly, wha?

                You explain why you posted what you did, and I'll explain why I asked LHA what I did.
                “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                Carl Sagan

                God is love.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                  Why does that frustrate you?
                  I want my leaders to prove what they say is true. If someone claims they are going to cut taxes in a certain way I wand the empirical evidence that shows that tax cut will benefit citizens. If someone says they can make healthcare free for everyone I do not just believe that - I want them to prove how they'll pay for it. When a politician claims that a new wall is already being built on our border I want pictures and evidence.

                  When a politician claims they get their values and morals from a personal relationship with the creator of the universe I want evidence.

                  Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                  All because you want free reign for post birth abortion? Free reign for man love? That you don't want to receive any flack for dressing like Suzie, hairy legs and all, and consider yourself transitioning? Or is communism your thing, and capitalism is a Christian thing?
                  I never claimed any of this. Your hate and generalizations are bleeding through. None of those things are atheist claims. Lets just keep this to the discussion on Christianity please. There are lots of other boards where you can discuss those topics.

                  And the laws that cause me grief are the laws based on Bible quotes instead of reason and logic. And I am right to be afraid of those.
                  When I say 'no evidence' I always mean that there is no evidence that I have seen. When I say 'no God' I always mean that I do not believe in God. God may exist and there may be evidence for him - I have yet to see it.

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                  • Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post
                    CARM atheists are on record, here at CARM, condemning slavery.
                    We do not think you personally are evil. I am sure your morals and mine are similar - we disagree but you seem like a smart and decent person. I am not surprised that you disagree with God's commands in Exodus 21.

                    Our argument is that the God described in the Bible is evil for espousing slavery. Your only crime is to worship an evil God.

                    When I say 'no evidence' I always mean that there is no evidence that I have seen. When I say 'no God' I always mean that I do not believe in God. God may exist and there may be evidence for him - I have yet to see it.

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                    • Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                      I want my leaders to prove what they say is true. If someone claims they are going to cut taxes in a certain way I wand the empirical evidence that shows that tax cut will benefit citizens. If someone says they can make healthcare free for everyone I do not just believe that - I want them to prove how they'll pay for it. When a politician claims that a new wall is already being built on our border I want pictures and evidence. When a politician claims they get their values and morals from a personal relationship with the creator of the universe I want evidence.
                      You don't get a lot of satisfaction from your politicians, do you. Your atheism provides little "evidence" of much buddy.

                      People can also just say they don't want some bozo atheist dreaming up morality for them, whoopdeedoo.

                      Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                      I never claimed any of this. Your hate and generalizations are bleeding through. None of those things are atheist claims. Lets just keep this to the discussion on Christianity please.
                      No hate, just questions. And no, this area is about your atheist thingies, so I'll ask what I want.

                      In this case, you claimed politicians base laws on some nebulous claims of "Christianity", and I offered questions about specific laws, and you seem perturbed.

                      Besides, what do taxes, healthcare and border walls have to do with christianity?
                      “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                      Carl Sagan

                      God is love.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                        ll because you want free reign for post birth abortion? Free reign for man love? That you don't want to receive any flack for dressing like Suzie, hairy legs and all, and consider yourself transitioning? Or is communism your thing, and capitalism is a Christian thing?
                        Romans 13:1-7
                        Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
                        ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

                        So there you go. Scripture says to obey your governing authorities, rather than God's law written in ink or on stone.
                        - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

                          Exactly, wha?

                          You explain why you posted what you did, and I'll explain why I asked LHA what I did.
                          Why should we obey government first?
                          #191
                          02-22-19, 11:49 AM
                          - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                            You don't get a lot of satisfaction from your politicians, do you. Your atheism provides little "evidence" of much buddy.
                            Asking for evidence that policies work as intended has nothing to do with atheism. It has nothing to do with the lack of belief in gods. It has everything to do with critical thinking and demanding that when someone makes a claim they have to back it up with evidence. The only parallel is that Christians believe what The Bible and their preachers say without question. We cannot have that same attitude towards politicians who create laws that impact our lives.

                            Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                            People can also just say they don't want some bozo atheist dreaming up morality for them, whoopdeedoo.
                            If an atheist politician made a claim like, 'we should raise taxes by 11%' then I would expect us to demand evidence supporting why this is a good idea. Morality has nothing to do with it.

                            Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                            No hate, just questions. And no, this area is about your atheist thingies, so I'll ask what I want.
                            Feel free. But since atheism has no stance on abortion, transsexual rights, LGBTQ rights, or the other things you said I'll just ignore them as irrelevant.

                            Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                            Besides, what do taxes, healthcare and border walls have to do with christianity?
                            Christian churches are exempt from taxes so taxes and Christianity have much in common - Christians need to prove why they are exempt but a dry cleaner is not. Christians use their faith to oppose some healthcare laws like access to healthcare options for women so Christianity has a big role in healthcare legislation - Christians need to explain why the proposed healthcare options are bad for the country or women in general. And 'just believe in Jesus' is not an acceptable answer as a basis for secular law in a country with diverse religious views.

                            I can't see how Christianity has anything to do with border security though. I still want evidence for how any proposal will keep us safer but that is a critical thinking thing - not an atheist/Christian thing.

                            When I say 'no evidence' I always mean that there is no evidence that I have seen. When I say 'no God' I always mean that I do not believe in God. God may exist and there may be evidence for him - I have yet to see it.

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                            • Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                              We do not think you personally are evil. I am sure your morals and mine are similar - we disagree but you seem like a smart and decent person. I am not surprised that you disagree with God's commands in Exodus 21.
                              Exodus is obsolete:

                              Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

                              - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

                                Exodus is obsolete:

                                Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
                                "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
                                Dillahunty said it - that settles it.

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