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  • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

    Romans 13:1-7
    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
    ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

    So there you go. Scripture says to obey your governing authorities, rather than God's law written in ink or on stone.
    You lost me, and that is ok.
    “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
    Carl Sagan

    God is love.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

      You lost me, and that is ok.
      NP. Read it again. I'm very aware that people don't get it.

      Romans 13:1-7
      Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
      ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
      - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post

        Asking for evidence that policies work as intended has nothing to do with atheism
        It doesn't have anything to do with christians either.

        If an atheist politician made a claim like, 'we should raise taxes by 11%' then I would expect us to demand evidence supporting why this is a good idea. Morality has nothing to do with it.
        Again, nothing to do with Christianity.

        Feel free. But since atheism has no stance on abortion, transsexual rights, LGBTQ rights, or the other things you said I'll just ignore them as irrelevant.
        Then I see nothing for you to be upset over.

        Christian churches are exempt from taxes so taxes and Christianity have much in common - Christians need to prove why they are exempt but a dry cleaner is not.
        Christians and churches are what propel charity in this country, much of it is generated from churches. If you want a history of how it came about in the US, I can provide.

        Truly, christians don't need to prove anything to you, you just need to research some history.

        Christians use their faith to oppose some healthcare laws like access to healthcare options for women so Christianity has a big role in healthcare legislation - Christians need to explain why the proposed healthcare options are bad for the country or women in general. And 'just believe in Jesus' is not an acceptable answer as a basis for secular law in a country with diverse religious views.

        I can't see how Christianity has anything to do with border security though. I still want evidence for how any proposal will keep us safer but that is a critical thinking thing - not an atheist/Christian thing.
        You just seem to be randomly complaining. If you desire to discuss laws regarding abortion, science proves a baby is a baby, so you lose there as well, unless you want to throw your precious atheist morality out the window when you want to kill your baby.
        “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
        Carl Sagan

        God is love.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

          NP. Read it again. I'm very aware that people don't get it.

          Romans 13:1-7
          Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
          ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
          I understand scripture just fine.

          You are not tying what you are saying into what was said.

          You can dumb it way down, explain which comment, and your rwsponse, I'm kinda slow.
          “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
          Carl Sagan

          God is love.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

            I understand scripture just fine.

            You are not tying what you are saying into what was said.

            You can dumb it way down, explain which comment, and your rwsponse, I'm kinda slow.
            After you read/grasp it, then you'll understand how it relates to the world.

            Romans 13:1-7
            Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
            ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
            - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

              After you read/grasp it, then you'll understand how it relates to the world.

              Romans 13:1-7
              Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
              ...Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
              Ok, don't explain it, who cares.
              “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
              Carl Sagan

              God is love.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post
                Truly, christians don't need to prove anything to you, you just need to research some history.
                In a democracy you do. If you think you deserve tax exemption you have to prove why to the rest of us voters. If you want to base laws on Christian faith then you have to explain the secular logic. If you arrogantly say that Christians are above question and they can get Federal tax breaks and pass laws using the tax money of atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus then you are in for a fight.

                And I do not think a historical analysis of Christianity is going to help you. As a Christian you see the charity and the good. You seem to ignore the inquisition, crusades. witch burning, and the 700 children abused by Southern Baptist leaders in the last 20 years.

                You need to back every claim or new law with logic and evidence explaining how it will benefit Americans. Historical stories, faith, and Leviticus are not adequate.
                When I say 'no evidence' I always mean that there is no evidence that I have seen. When I say 'no God' I always mean that I do not believe in God. God may exist and there may be evidence for him - I have yet to see it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

                  Ok, don't explain it, who cares.
                  Right. WHO cares what scripture says.
                  - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                    In a democracy you do. If you think you deserve tax exemption you have to prove why to the rest of us voters.
                    And people have, that is why they have tax exemption. Even some atheist organizations have tax exempt status.

                    Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                    If you want to base laws on Christian faith then you have to explain the secular logic. If you arrogantly say that Christians are above question and they can get Federal tax breaks and pass laws using the tax money of atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus then you are in for a fight.
                    You sound like you are boxing with shadows.

                    Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                    IAnd I do not think a historical analysis of Christianity is going to help you.
                    Historical analysis of tax exemptions for charities, is going to help you. Which was the point.

                    Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                    IAs a Christian you see the charity and the good. You seem to ignore the inquisition, crusades. witch burning, and the 700 children abused by Southern Baptist leaders in the last 20 years.
                    You ignore the mass murders of hundreds of millions by atheists.

                    Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                    IYou need to back every claim or new law with logic and evidence explaining how it will benefit Americans. Historical stories, faith, and Leviticus are not adequate.
                    Oh ya ok. If it is your logic, no thanks, it can't even have a rational conversation.
                    “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                    Carl Sagan

                    God is love.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lighthearted Athiest View Post
                      In a democracy you do. If you think you deserve tax exemption you have to prove why to the rest of us voters. If you want to base laws on Christian faith then you have to explain the secular logic. If you arrogantly say that Christians are above question and they can get Federal tax breaks and pass laws using the tax money of atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus then you are in for a fight.
                      "the tax money of atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus then you are in for a fight."

                      Those groups also have tax exempt organizations. Exempt organizations
                      must support charitable work and their profits are limited and not offered
                      to outside shareholders.
                      - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post
                        "the tax money of atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus then you are in for a fight."

                        Those groups also have tax exempt organizations.
                        Kudos. I hadn't realized there were tax-exempt atheist organizations.
                        Atheism > Oneness forum trolls

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

                          Right. WHO cares what scripture says.
                          Oh please.

                          Here, let me help you.

                          If you find yourself born into a Communist country, obey the authorities as much as you possibly can, but obey God first if you have a conflict. I was born under capitalism, and it is a much easier row to hoe.

                          Is your strange curiosity fulfilled, or do I have to continue to play "find the criticism" with you?
                          “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                          Carl Sagan

                          God is love.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by America View Post
                            Kudos. I hadn't realized there were tax-exempt atheist organizations.
                            Sure. It's has nothing to do with religious beliefs.
                            It's simply a method of organising your business
                            that proves a public good and is not profit motivated.
                            Becoming a 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organization

                            - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

                              Oh please.

                              Here, let me help you.

                              If you find yourself born into a Communist country, obey the authorities as much as you possibly can, but obey God first if you have a conflict. I was born under capitalism, and it is a much easier row to hoe.

                              Is your strange curiosity fulfilled, or do I have to continue to play "find the criticism" with you?
                              Scripture says to obey local authority. There is not one passage teaching civil disobedience for religious exemptions.

                              There are a few stories describing civil disobedience and the dire consequences.
                              In one.....every non-believer is diced into chunks of meat, including any family and friends.
                              I don't recommend it.
                              - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LeoTheLibrarian View Post

                                Scripture says to obey local authority. There is not one passage teaching civil disobedience for religious exemptions.

                                There are a few stories describing civil disobedience and the dire consequences.
                                Sounds great, awesome. But.....are you sure about that? How sure are you?

                                Except for me, I will obey God if man is trying to tell me to do what God says not to do. Too bad, so sad.
                                “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                                Carl Sagan

                                God is love.

                                Comment

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