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Why Call God Good?

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  • Why Call God Good?

    After much prodding and repeated requests, a certain CARM Christian finally provided an answer to my question

    The question in question:

    Why do you insist on calling God good when He
    1. Decided that anyone who fails to meet His standard is deserving of eternal damnation
    and
    2. Decided to create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard?

    The response that I finally received is twofold:

    The CARM Christian in question claims that
    A. God has been nothing but good to him
    and
    B. His Word says He is good

    Is either a good enough reason to call God good?

    I say no

    1A, That God has been nothing but good to a particular individual no more means that God, Himself, is good than Hitler having been nothing but good to his mother means that Adolf was good

    2B. The veracity of a claim cannot be verified as true simply because the claim, itself, claims to be true

    How about you?
    Why do you call God good?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post
    I say no
    And what YOU SAY is totally unimportant. God is a Good God.

    Next foolish statement???

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      And what YOU SAY is totally unimportant.

      Next foolish statement???
      And what you say is totally unimportant.
      "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." JBS Haldane.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Whatsisface View Post

        And what you say is totally unimportant.
        AGREED!! to you anything I say will be of no importance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

          AGREED!! to you anything I say will be of no importance.
          Do you know why?

          "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." JBS Haldane.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            And what YOU SAY is totally unimportant. God is a Good God.

            Next foolish statement???
            A statement that "God is a good God" unaccompanied with any support whatsoever is a foolish statement, Bob!

            Why is God a good God?
            What makes God good, Bob?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

              And what YOU SAY is totally unimportant. God is a Good God.

              Next foolish statement???
              Which is why Jesus didn't claim to be a god and didn't claim to be without sin (Mark 10:18).
              ... always look on the bright side of life - Idle Cleese

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post
                Why do you call God good?
                Eat a peach and you'll know.


                Last edited by stiggywiggy; 08-30-19, 07:48 PM.
                Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                John Hancock

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post
                  After much prodding and repeated requests, a certain CARM Christian finally provided an answer to my question

                  The question in question:

                  Why do you insist on calling God good when He
                  1. Decided that anyone who fails to meet His standard is deserving of eternal damnation
                  and
                  2. Decided to create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard?


                  How about you?
                  Why do you call God good?
                  I say the question is misbegotten. It is the question that warrants change so it is something other than a red herring or straw man. It should read something like, "Why do you call God good when He is kind to those who have abused the privilege of life and choice and made themselves garbage?"

                  That the matter of "deserving" of eternal damnation is broached is understandable because Christianity has certainly used that language but they use that language euphemistically. Anyone who has read the articulations of that idea of "desrving" understands it is more accuratey a condition people bring upon themselves.

                  The same is true of "eternal damnation." That condition is simply an eternal separation from the God from whom the individual has already willfully separated themselves.

                  The matter of "decided to create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard" is entirely mistaken. It is completely false. The question containing it is therefore both incorrect and irrationally so because anything built on an error is likewise erroneous. This puts the op in a peculiar position because if its author is willing to learn the correct position and adjust his/her thinking and beliefs accordingly then s/he partially demonstrates the potential even the sinner possesses that s/he's just claimed is impossible, and if s/he refuses to make the rational and factual corrections then the problem of self-abuse and willful refusal to change is demonstrated. It's a wonderfully ironic example of damned if you do and damned if you don't as far as the argument of this op goes.

                  And the prospect of the op's author's redemption becomes moot.






                  The facts of Christianity are that God did not "create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard." God created everyone good and sinless and thereby already meeting His standard. In addition, He provided the means for them to become more than what they already are. He told them what to do, provided them with the power, authority, and means to do it. He also told them what would happen were they to defy His own single rule.

                  And my fellow Christian who proved incapable of answering your question can be admonished for such a poor answer but that does not mean there is no (rational) answer.

                  So correct the question and I'll do what I can to answer and address a more reasonable and rational inquiry.


                  All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                  “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post
                    After much prodding and repeated requests, a certain CARM Christian finally provided an answer to my question

                    The question in question:

                    Why do you insist on calling God good when He
                    1. Decided that anyone who fails to meet His standard is deserving of eternal damnation
                    and
                    2. Decided to create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard?

                    The response that I finally received is twofold:

                    The CARM Christian in question claims that
                    A. God has been nothing but good to him
                    and
                    B. His Word says He is good

                    Is either a good enough reason to call God good?

                    I say no

                    1A, That God has been nothing but good to a particular individual no more means that God, Himself, is good than Hitler having been nothing but good to his mother means that Adolf was good

                    2B. The veracity of a claim cannot be verified as true simply because the claim, itself, claims to be true

                    How about you?
                    Why do you call God good?
                    Because existing is good.
                    The "fear and pain", but this isn’t how I AM
                    Don’t you forget that you are loved
                    Don’t you forget that you are them

                    Devin Townsend - Spirits Will Collide

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post
                      1. Decided that anyone who fails to meet His standard is deserving of eternal damnation
                      This shows you don't understand anything about the fall of mankind.

                      Are christians suppose to argue for or against this straw man?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                        I say the question is misbegotten. It is the question that warrants change so it is something other than a red herring or straw man.
                        Imagine that....I made my post...then read yours.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by juglans1 View Post
                          Which is why Jesus didn't claim to be a god and didn't claim to be without sin (Mark 10:18).
                          Yikes..more ignorance.

                          Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

                          Get back to me with that question when you understand the kenosis and the position Jesus was being approached in.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                            I say the question is misbegotten. It is the question that warrants change so it is something other than a red herring or straw man. It should read something like, "Why do you call God good when He is kind to those who have abused the privilege of life and choice and made themselves garbage?"

                            That the matter of "deserving" of eternal damnation is broached is understandable because Christianity has certainly used that language but they use that language euphemistically. Anyone who has read the articulations of that idea of "desrving" understands it is more accuratey a condition people bring upon themselves.

                            The same is true of "eternal damnation." That condition is simply an eternal separation from the God from whom the individual has already willfully separated themselves.

                            The matter of "decided to create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard" is entirely mistaken. It is completely false. The question containing it is therefore both incorrect and irrationally so because anything built on an error is likewise erroneous. This puts the op in a peculiar position because if its author is willing to learn the correct position and adjust his/her thinking and beliefs accordingly then s/he partially demonstrates the potential even the sinner possesses that s/he's just claimed is impossible, and if s/he refuses to make the rational and factual corrections then the problem of self-abuse and willful refusal to change is demonstrated. It's a wonderfully ironic example of damned if you do and damned if you don't as far as the argument of this op goes.

                            And the prospect of the op's author's redemption becomes moot.






                            The facts of Christianity are that God did not "create everyone absolutely 100% incapable of meeting His standard." God created everyone good and sinless and thereby already meeting His standard. In addition, He provided the means for them to become more than what they already are. He told them what to do, provided them with the power, authority, and means to do it. He also told them what would happen were they to defy His own single rule.

                            And my fellow Christian who proved incapable of answering your question can be admonished for such a poor answer but that does not mean there is no (rational) answer.

                            So correct the question and I'll do what I can to answer and address a more reasonable and rational inquiry.

                            How can you say that God did not create us incapable of meeting His standard?

                            Scripture begs to differ, Josheb

                            Psalm 51:5
                            "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

                            Ephesians 2:3
                            "All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath."

                            Genesis 8:21
                            "And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

                            God, clearly, did not create everyone good and sinless
                            God created each of us behind the proverbial eight ball because the first man - the one that He ostensibly created good and sinless - defied Him

                            *We won't even go into the fact that Adam did nothing wrong to begin with*

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

                              This shows you don't understand anything about the fall of mankind.

                              Are christians suppose to argue for or against this straw man?
                              See post 14

                              Comment

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