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What makes him so angry?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

    From what I read, he wants to reason with them until they no longer believe the "wrong" reality. Eliminate sounds either too violent or something one's colon does. From my perspective, he is doing nothing different than any belief system that seeks believers.



    We all stand on equal ground, regardless of which beliefs we claim. The chaff is that which is not love, for only God is eternal and God is love. Matthew 25:40 and pretty much all of James (hey, that's you!) define this well. It is not about names, it is about what we do that proves our belief. If we "do" love then we are demonstrating our unity with God.
    Thank you for understanding and attempting to explain, on my behalf, to someone who has already made up their mind that they have no interest in understanding!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

      Many problems with your view, one being that love emanates from God, God is love. There is no living a life of love without God. And He has a name, Jesus Christ.

      Apparently you haven't paid attention to this posters beliefs. His problem is with the God who is love.
      This may be where we agree to disagree. Our actions reflect our heart. If we are acting in love, our heart is true. If we are acting selfishly as disconnected egos, our faith is false. Any attempt to claim a name will save you dilutes love.

      You are quite mistaken, and are not aquatinted with the teachings of scripture.

      Men already are separated from God. One can, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, be made alive to God, else one will remain hopelessly separated from God, at enmity even.

      once a man is made alive to God, then someone would have to pluck one from His hands in order to be separated again. I don't see it happening.

      This poster in question is at extreme enmity with Jesus Christ. Ask him, he will tell you.
      Believing we are not separate from god is spiritual life and, on the flip side, knowing we are but a manifestation of I AM in a physical body is the defeat of physical death. Creatures died before the fall, we just did not perceive it as a bad thing until we believed ourselves separate from God. Jesus came out and plainly told us that he is one with God and we should imitate him. Alan Watts articulates this well:

      "...his elect disciples as recorded in Saint John, he came right out “Before Abraham was, I am.” “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” “I am the resurrection and the life.” “I am the living bread that comes down from Heaven.” “I and the Father are one, and he who has seen me has seen the Father.” And there can be no mistaking that language.

      So the Jews found out and they put him to death – or had him put to death – for blasphemy. This is no cause for any special antagonism toward the Jews. We would do exactly the same thing. It’s always done. It happened to one of the great Sufi mystics in Persia who had the same experience. Now, what happened? The Apostles didn’t quite get the point. They were awed by the miracles of Jesus. They worshipped him as people do worship gurus, and as you know to what lengths that can go if you’ve been around guru-land. And so the Christians said “Okay, okay: Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God but let it stop right there! Nobody else.” So what happened was that Jesus was pedestalized. He was put in a position that was safely upstairs so that his troublesome experience of cosmic consciousness would not come and cause other people to be a nuisance. And those who have had this experience and expressed it during those times when the church had political power were almost invariably persecuted. Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake. John Scotus Eriugena was excommunicated. Meister Eckhardt’s theses were condemned. And so on, and so on. A few mystics got away with it because they used cautious language.

      But you see what happens. If you pedestalize Jesus you strangle the Gospel at birth. And it has been the tradition in both the Catholic Church and in Protestantism to pass off what I will call an emasculated Gospel. Gospel means “good news,” and I cannot for the life of me think what is the good news about the Gospel as ordinarily handed down."




      Lifting up the name of Jesus Christ, and telling people to listen to Him....it is enough.
      Strange how Christianity do not actually want people to imitate Jesus and claim to be one with God, though bringing us into union with God was the whole point.

      They need cleaned every now and again, but few know how to do it.
      Blessed are the feet of saints.
      The "fear and pain", but this isn’t how I AM
      Don’t you forget that you are loved
      Don’t you forget that you are them

      Devin Townsend - Spirits Will Collide

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post

        Thank you for understanding and attempting to explain, on my behalf, to someone who has already made up their mind that they have no interest in understanding!
        I am not sure whether it is parody or hypocrisy, but they are doing exactly what we see done in the media where snippets are taken out of context to accuse. I suppose we are all guilty of this as we interact with family and friends, presupposing our projection of who they are onto their words; so often in complete dissonance with their reality.

        My spouse has been bringing this lesson to me over and over. It is difficult for me to understand what makes her so angry is not who she is addressing, but the combination of (acronym dump warning) PCS, PTSD, OCD, bi-polar, ADHD, seasonal affective disorder (SAD), effects of narcissistic abuse, labrynthitis, TMJD; she was more broken than I realized when I met her and has broken further these last 2 decades. Stoicism has helped.

        Honestly, I believe this is the gospel as well: "don't forget that you are them"
        The "fear and pain", but this isn’t how I AM
        Don’t you forget that you are loved
        Don’t you forget that you are them

        Devin Townsend - Spirits Will Collide

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post

          Yep - FALLING DOWN and CONVULSING with laughter = epileptics
          And that's funny? I'll bet you find it a riot that lepers have numb fingers.

          Once again, I sail right over your head...
          Heh, you couldn't sail the S.S. Minnow into the lagoon.

          I don't care enough to dig through hundreds and/or thousands of your ignorant posts, but YOU DID use the Smirnoff / Bruce bit before
          Nope, never happened.

          Speaking of reruns, yeah, I do remember saying:

          Scripture tells us that God drowned babies
          You and I both know that drowning babies is immoral
          Therefore, God is immoral
          Yep, kinda like how Rainman remembers saying "Wapner at 8."

          I also recall that you have never been able to successfully refute my assertion
          Lousy memory, eh? Faulty AND lousy, O ye who are incapable of resurrecting babies you've created from scratch. Coming back to you now? Try this stuff. It's made from jellyfish:

          https://www.prevagenoutlet.com/?gcli...xoCnxoQAvD_BwE
          Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
          John Hancock

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

            "ERADICATE Christianity through reasoning with words" was what I read. Do you not have the same desire for Islam, atheism, etc.?
            Alas, while we strive to reason, they strive to regain the power to assert through violence.
            Religious fundamentalists are all driven by hate, and the desire to kill any who do not bow to their bizzare interpretation of their religion.
            When evil is powerful, good men are silenced.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

              And that's funny? I'll bet you find it a riot that lepers have numb fingers.



              Heh, you couldn't sail the S.S. Minnow into the lagoon.



              Nope, never happened.



              Yep, kinda like how Rainman remembers saying "Wapner at 8."



              Lousy memory, eh? Faulty AND lousy, O ye who are incapable of resurrecting babies you've created from scratch. Coming back to you now? Try this stuff. It's made from jellyfish:

              https://www.prevagenoutlet.com/?gcli...xoCnxoQAvD_BwE
              You joke about quadriplegics - what problem should you have regarding jokes about epileptics?

              Me, personally, I love irreverence - there is nothing, as far as I am concerned, so sacrosanct and / or so serious and politically correct as to escape a comic interlude
              Huh, I guess that's just some more of my humorlessness, right, Stigs?

              Again, feel free to deny it, but you DID make the lame and unfunny "joke" about me making Yakov Smirnoff look like Lenny Bruce

              By the way, I was wondering - have you traded Wally Cox in for Gilligan?
              Lots of Gilligan's Island references coming from you lately...
              Figures, being as how Gilligan is just about at your level of intellect

              A lousy memory?
              Me?
              No - not at all

              Let me remind you:
              Creating babies from scratch? - Moral and good
              Saving babies from a fallen world? - Moral and good
              Resurrecting babies to a better world? - Moral and good
              Resurrecting babies to a better world by means of needlessly drowning them? - Immoral and evil

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                I am not sure whether it is parody or hypocrisy, but they are doing exactly what we see done in the media where snippets are taken out of context to accuse. I suppose we are all guilty of this as we interact with family and friends, presupposing our projection of who they are onto their words; so often in complete dissonance with their reality.

                My spouse has been bringing this lesson to me over and over. It is difficult for me to understand what makes her so angry is not who she is addressing, but the combination of (acronym dump warning) PCS, PTSD, OCD, bi-polar, ADHD, seasonal affective disorder (SAD), effects of narcissistic abuse, labrynthitis, TMJD; she was more broken than I realized when I met her and has broken further these last 2 decades. Stoicism has helped.

                Honestly, I believe this is the gospel as well: "don't forget that you are them"
                Sorry to hear that your wife struggles with these issues and I know that it must be very hard on you, as well...I hope that she can overcome her demons and you both can enjoy a happy and healthy life together

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by D Laurier View Post

                  Alas, while we strive to reason, they strive to regain the power to assert through violence.
                  Think about that one. There are those in both "camps" who are genuine and those who are self/in-group seeking. Any conservative listener who is genuine and does not seek self/in-group will take this as misguided and offensive. None who are self/in-group seeking will give a rats patootie. Who is directed towards?

                  Religious fundamentalists are all driven by hate, and the desire to kill any who do not bow to their bizzare interpretation of their religion.
                  No they're not all driven by hate. There are many who have their cause/self/group out in front of their love just as many have in progressive circles. I have been and known many. But either camp's degree of extreme "fundamental" data graphs the same curve as their unwillingness to listen "make space" for the other. Because we are complex beings, there are many who have extreme levels of "fundamentalism" that fare better in other areas.

                  None of this bears any judgement on extremists. Certainly call them out on action, but let their action be what's judged, not their rhetoric.
                  The "fear and pain", but this isn’t how I AM
                  Don’t you forget that you are loved
                  Don’t you forget that you are them

                  Devin Townsend - Spirits Will Collide

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post

                    Sorry to hear that your wife struggles with these issues and I know that it must be very hard on you, as well...I hope that she can overcome her demons and you both can enjoy a happy and healthy life together
                    We are getting there. I have my own set of issues, too. Bunch of broken chitheads are we.

                    Making our biggest move ever this next weekend: 9.5 hours to another state. I gotta get off CARM for a bit, lol
                    The "fear and pain", but this isn’t how I AM
                    Don’t you forget that you are loved
                    Don’t you forget that you are them

                    Devin Townsend - Spirits Will Collide

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                      We are getting there. I have my own set of issues, too. Bunch of broken chitheads are we.

                      Making our biggest move ever this next weekend: 9.5 hours to another state. I gotta get off CARM for a bit, lol
                      Good luck and safe travels!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                        From what I read, he wants to reason with them until they no longer believe the "wrong" reality. Eliminate sounds either too violent or something one's colon does. From my perspective, he is doing nothing different than any belief system that seeks believers.
                        He chose his language on purpose. Must be the love of the tree planter coming through. Although I can agree, his elimination plan is coming from his bowels I think.

                        We all stand on equal ground, regardless of which beliefs we claim. The chaff is that which is not love, for only God is eternal and God is love. Matthew 25:40 and pretty much all of James (hey, that's you!) define this well. It is not about names, it is about what we do that proves our belief. If we "do" love then we are demonstrating our unity with God.
                        Goodness, to you a Satanist is on equal ground as any other. Weird beliefs you have.

                        The chaff is as scripture tells us, not in your imagination of what you want it to be.

                        There is no name under heaven by which men can be saved. So ya, it is about a name. Jesus Christ.

                        Does it bother you that God has made His name the name above all names?

                        If you want to demonstrate unity with God, then tell the man about Christ, and what Christ says to one who rejects Him.
                        “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                        Carl Sagan

                        God is love.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                          This may be where we agree to disagree. Our actions reflect our heart. If we are acting in love, our heart is true. If we are acting selfishly as disconnected egos, our faith is false. Any attempt to claim a name will save you dilutes love.
                          And anyone denying Jesus Christ is a sad soul indeed.

                          It does take a corrupt ego to deny Christ, in that we both agree. Or maybe you don't agree, I don't care either way.


                          Believing we are not separate from god is spiritual life and, on the flip side, knowing we are but a manifestation of I AM in a physical body is the defeat of physical death.
                          Goodness that is daft. The defeat of physical death is to be taken in the rapture, otherwise you and tree man are gonna die, friend.

                          The defeat of spiritual death only comes through Jesus Christ.

                          If one such as tree man, who calls God a monster, thinks he communes with God, then you and him are a delusional pair.

                          Creatures died before the fall, we just did not perceive it as a bad thing until we believed ourselves separate from God. Jesus came out and plainly told us that he is one with God and we should imitate him. Alan Watts articulates this well:

                          "...his elect disciples as recorded in Saint John, he came right out “Before Abraham was, I am.” “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” “I am the resurrection and the life.” “I am the living bread that comes down from Heaven.” “I and the Father are one, and he who has seen me has seen the Father.” And there can be no mistaking that language.

                          So the Jews found out and they put him to death – or had him put to death – for blasphemy. This is no cause for any special antagonism toward the Jews. We would do exactly the same thing. It’s always done. It happened to one of the great Sufi mystics in Persia who had the same experience. Now, what happened? The Apostles didn’t quite get the point. They were awed by the miracles of Jesus. They worshipped him as people do worship gurus, and as you know to what lengths that can go if you’ve been around guru-land. And so the Christians said “Okay, okay: Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God but let it stop right there! Nobody else.” So what happened was that Jesus was pedestalized. He was put in a position that was safely upstairs so that his troublesome experience of cosmic consciousness would not come and cause other people to be a nuisance. And those who have had this experience and expressed it during those times when the church had political power were almost invariably persecuted. Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake. John Scotus Eriugena was excommunicated. Meister Eckhardt’s theses were condemned. And so on, and so on. A few mystics got away with it because they used cautious language.

                          But you see what happens. If you pedestalize Jesus you strangle the Gospel at birth. And it has been the tradition in both the Catholic Church and in Protestantism to pass off what I will call an emasculated Gospel. Gospel means “good news,” and I cannot for the life of me think what is the good news about the Gospel as ordinarily handed down."
                          The good news is that even if you are at enmity with God, and even though your sins are as red as a period rag, one can still be brought into communion with God.

                          Since tree man denies Gods son, and wants to eliminate any belief in Christ, I suppose that makes him an anti-christ. Considering he does stand against Christ, it all fits.

                          Strange how Christianity do not actually want people to imitate Jesus and claim to be one with God, though bringing us into union with God was the whole point.

                          Blessed are the feet of saints.
                          Indeed, the good news that your sins can be forgiven, that Jesus Christ died for your sins and was resurrected on the third day, is indeed good news.

                          So tell the tree man he can be in communion with God, the one he claims is a monster.

                          Should be interesting watching you convert him.
                          “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                          Carl Sagan

                          God is love.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                            Think about that one. There are those in both "camps" who are genuine and those who are self/in-group seeking. Any conservative listener who is genuine and does not seek self/in-group will take this as misguided and offensive. None who are self/in-group seeking will give a rats patootie. Who is directed towards?



                            No they're not all driven by hate. There are many who have their cause/self/group out in front of their love just as many have in progressive circles. I have been and known many. But either camp's degree of extreme "fundamental" data graphs the same curve as their unwillingness to listen "make space" for the other. Because we are complex beings, there are many who have extreme levels of "fundamentalism" that fare better in other areas.

                            None of this bears any judgement on extremists. Certainly call them out on action, but let their action be what's judged, not their rhetoric.
                            It is funny to me how people call for God's judgement.

                            Do you really want God to judge these people blue?

                            I mean, every believer knows the judgement against the world will be utterly devastating.

                            I personally would hope the Laurier man judges himself first. And you know there is only one judgement that can be made. Guilty. Guilty of every sin under the sun. Including denying Jesus Christ.

                            Maybe that is it?

                            Judge yourself over your position in Christ.

                            What is the judgement?
                            “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”
                            Carl Sagan

                            God is love.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Treeplanter View Post

                              Me, personally, I love irreverence
                              But impersonally you don't, right?

                              Huh, I guess that's just some more of my humorlessness, right, Stigs?
                              Your problem is, you're just not funny. You try too hard.

                              Again, feel free to deny it,
                              According to you, I'm not free to do anything.

                              but you DID make the lame and unfunny "joke" about me making Yakov Smirnoff look like Lenny Bruce
                              Yeah, yesterday. Good memory. You already started with that jellyfish stuff?

                              By the way, I was wondering - have you traded Wally Cox in for Gilligan?
                              With a bit player to be named later.

                              Let me remind you:
                              Your motto, Rerun
                              Signature? You want a signature? I'll show you a signature!
                              John Hancock

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by stiggywiggy View Post

                                But impersonally you don't, right?



                                Your problem is, you're just not funny. You try too hard.



                                According to you, I'm not free to do anything.



                                Yeah, yesterday. Good memory. You already started with that jellyfish stuff?



                                With a bit player to be named later.



                                Your motto, Rerun
                                Wrong, as usual, Stigs

                                I never said you are not free to do anything
                                To the contrary, what I said is that you are free to make an infinite number of choices throughout your lifetime
                                Some of them as banal as Big Mac or Quarter Pounder
                                Some of them are of a moral nature and will shape your character

                                I also said that because God created you with a nature that will inevitably compel you to sin at least once - you do not have a free will

                                Free will, within the Christian conceptualization, is far more than simply having choice available to you
                                Free will is inextricably bound with a single choice - that choice being:
                                God or world

                                And God has decided that to choose the world over Him, even just the once, is to have chosen the world over Him for all time
                                Only through His Son, Jesus Christ, can we then be brought back into communion with Him

                                That each and every single one of us are inevitably compelled by our natures to choose the world over God means that there is no free will within the Christian framework

                                Comment

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