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Did God create the cosmos in 6 days, or did evolution REALLY make all this.

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  • Did God create the cosmos in 6 days, or did evolution REALLY make all this.

    Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

    So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

    From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.

    Lying within the bounds of the constellation is the gigantic Phoenix cluster, which is around 7.3 million light years wide and 5.7 billion light years away, making it one of the most massive galaxy clusters. It was first discovered in 2010, and the central galaxy is producing an estimated 740 new stars a year.[55] Larger still is El Gordo, or officially ACT-CL J0102-4915, whose discovery was announced in 2012.[56] Located around 7.2 billion light years away, it is composed of two subclusters in the process of colliding, resulting in the spewing out of hot gas, seen in X-rays and infrared images.[57]


    The 55 footnote reference is this MIT article.
    http://news.mit.edu/2012/cool-lumino...dentified-0815

    It was this article, along with several others--- probably all written on this article--- that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem.

    You're going to have to spend the money for the article from Nature for yourself.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11379


    So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.

    God is real. He can be known. You only cheat yourself by giving what you call reasons, and are nothing more than excuses. There's an old saying:
    an excuse is nothing more than a skin of reason, over a skeleton of lies.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SteveB View Post
    . . . .So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
    Maybe the simplest way to show the mistake you've made here is to ask: if there are 250 babies born in the world every minute, does that mean it takes only a minute to form a baby?

    ("Form," not "conceive"; sorry if I've just killed any good joke responses here.)

    ETA: Or, to avoid bringing up the issue of whether it's a baby from conception, etc.: if there are 8,000 new cars in the world every hour, does that mean it takes only an hour to make a car?
    Last edited by ajarntham; 11-09-19, 09:08 PM.
    I promise that if you treat me as a reasonable person -- someone who is open to good arguments and clear explanations -- I will treat you as one in return.

    If, on the other hand, you don't consider me a reasonable person, why would you want to talk to me, and why would I want to listen to you?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ajarntham View Post

      Maybe the simplest way to show the mistake you've made here is to ask: if there are 250 babies born in the world every minute, does that mean it takes only a minute to form a baby?

      ("Form," not "conceive"; sorry if I've just killed any good joke responses here.)
      Conception doesn't take long.

      Gestation period 9 months

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SteveB View Post
        Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

        So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

        From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.

        Lying within the bounds of the constellation is the gigantic Phoenix cluster, which is around 7.3 million light years wide and 5.7 billion light years away, making it one of the most massive galaxy clusters. It was first discovered in 2010, and the central galaxy is producing an estimated 740 new stars a year.[55] Larger still is El Gordo, or officially ACT-CL J0102-4915, whose discovery was announced in 2012.[56] Located around 7.2 billion light years away, it is composed of two subclusters in the process of colliding, resulting in the spewing out of hot gas, seen in X-rays and infrared images.[57]


        The 55 footnote reference is this MIT article.
        http://news.mit.edu/2012/cool-lumino...dentified-0815

        It was this article, along with several others--- probably all written on this article--- that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem.

        You're going to have to spend the money for the article from Nature for yourself.
        https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11379


        So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
        On average, Sun like stars take 10 million years to form and become a star. More massive stars can form in 100,000 years, so each of your 720 stars have taken a very long time to become stars, not the timescale you are implying of 2 stars in a day. If that's what you're saying, that's a massive error on your part

        "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." JBS Haldane.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nouveau View Post

          Conception doesn't take long.

          Gestation period 9 months
          I guess that's why they pay you those big obstetrics bucks.
          I promise that if you treat me as a reasonable person -- someone who is open to good arguments and clear explanations -- I will treat you as one in return.

          If, on the other hand, you don't consider me a reasonable person, why would you want to talk to me, and why would I want to listen to you?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SteveB View Post
            Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

            So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

            From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.

            Lying within the bounds of the constellation is the gigantic Phoenix cluster, which is around 7.3 million light years wide and 5.7 billion light years away, making it one of the most massive galaxy clusters. It was first discovered in 2010, and the central galaxy is producing an estimated 740 new stars a year.[55] Larger still is El Gordo, or officially ACT-CL J0102-4915, whose discovery was announced in 2012.[56] Located around 7.2 billion light years away, it is composed of two subclusters in the process of colliding, resulting in the spewing out of hot gas, seen in X-rays and infrared images.[57]


            The 55 footnote reference is this MIT article.
            http://news.mit.edu/2012/cool-lumino...dentified-0815

            It was this article, along with several others--- probably all written on this article--- that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem.

            You're going to have to spend the money for the article from Nature for yourself.
            https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11379


            So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
            The first heaven and earth created by God in the beginning in Genesis 2 where Adam was created before all other things, was made in 6 days of God's timing. For the was no man's timing yet until after the fall. The first earth was destroyed by the water/flood due to man's violence and sin's and Gen. 1:2
            is the restoration of the flooded earth. All plants,trees may have been washed away, but the animals and the people were on the ark. The seeds in the ground just had to grow once God receeded the waters from the land.
            One day of God's, is like 1,000 yrs. of man. but again there was no man when God began to create, so He did it in His timing:

            2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            KJV


            Here is the replenishing of the world now in which we live that was restored in 24hr days that we are expecting it to be destroyed by fire as we await the Next New Heaven and Earth.

            Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
            3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
            4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
            5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
            6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
            7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
            8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
            9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
            10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
            KJV

            Notice that Adam in Gen 2, knew God as LORD, where as after the flood, He was only known as God for the fall had taken place. Only by the Spirit can we call Him Lord.
            The purpose of my posts are not to cause bicker or division, but to show truth from the scripture for edifying of the soul. It does not matter what we think, it is what God's Word says that matters.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SteveB View Post
              Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

              So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

              From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.

              Lying within the bounds of the constellation is the gigantic Phoenix cluster, which is around 7.3 million light years wide and 5.7 billion light years away, making it one of the most massive galaxy clusters. It was first discovered in 2010, and the central galaxy is producing an estimated 740 new stars a year.[55] Larger still is El Gordo, or officially ACT-CL J0102-4915, whose discovery was announced in 2012.[56] Located around 7.2 billion light years away, it is composed of two subclusters in the process of colliding, resulting in the spewing out of hot gas, seen in X-rays and infrared images.[57]


              The 55 footnote reference is this MIT article.
              http://news.mit.edu/2012/cool-lumino...dentified-0815

              It was this article, along with several others--- probably all written on this article--- that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem.

              You're going to have to spend the money for the article from Nature for yourself.
              https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11379


              So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
              In other words the universe is billions of years old, given there are two trillion visible galaxies.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Whatsisface View Post

                On average, Sun like stars take 10 million years to form and become a star. More massive stars can form in 100,000 years, so each of your 720 stars have taken a very long time to become stars, not the timescale you are implying of 2 stars in a day. If that's what you're saying, that's a massive error on your part
                I'm so glad that you know so much without ever actually having gotten an education in anything.

                I'm not the one who has stated that 740 stars were churned out in a single year.

                Seems pretty clear that the people who are educated in astrophysics know more than you do.

                I'll stick with the people who actually know what they're talking about.

                And you're not in the mix
                God is real. He can be known. You only cheat yourself by giving what you call reasons, and are nothing more than excuses. There's an old saying:
                an excuse is nothing more than a skin of reason, over a skeleton of lies.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                  ...I'm not the one who has stated that 740 stars were churned out in a single year.
                  You entirely misunderstand what that means, however. It does not mean that it took a year or less, from beginning to completion, for those stars to form. Just as "Toyota put out 500 cars in a single hour" does not mean that it took an hour or less, from beginning to completion, for those cars to be made. Do you acknowledge the difference? (Is there anybody else who does not see the difference?)

                  You are making this argument, apparently, because it helps you to believe in the six-day creation: "that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem," you say. But even if it takes 100,000 to 10,000,000 years for a star to form naturally, it still isn't a problem for an omnipotent, supernatural being (if such a being exists) to make them in a day (or a millisecond, if he preferred). So it's something of a puzzle why you think this is a hill worth defending.
                  I promise that if you treat me as a reasonable person -- someone who is open to good arguments and clear explanations -- I will treat you as one in return.

                  If, on the other hand, you don't consider me a reasonable person, why would you want to talk to me, and why would I want to listen to you?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                    Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

                    So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

                    From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.
                    Thanks for that, I originally doubted your claim about the new stars (thinking you meant in our Milky Way). So what has actually happened is astronomers have used cutting edge telescopes (10), combined the images, to reveal a galaxy cluster Its distance from us is 5.7 billion light years away.

                    <snip>


                    So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
                    No you have this wrong. It still takes millions of years for a star to form (depending on when you think is starts). What is being observed is a 'stellar burst' where the star forming event started millions of years ago and they are now becoming visible as they evolve from gas to star (over simplified I hope you understand). As they say in the article they are observing this event at just at the right time.



                    "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SteveB View Post

                      I'm so glad that you know so much without ever actually having gotten an education in anything.
                      Rich coming from you. You're really showing your ignorance and lack of logical thinking on this one. Then, you do have a long history of posting articles that don't say what you think they say.

                      Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                      I'm not the one who has stated that 740 stars were churned out in a single year.

                      Seems pretty clear that the people who are educated in astrophysics know more than you do.

                      I'll stick with the people who actually know what they're talking about.

                      And you're not in the mix
                      Right, and I'm not disputing that. And like you, I'm not the one stating the formation of sun like stars from start to finish takes a very long time, astrophysicists are.

                      There probably are 740 stars that come into being in a year in the area you're talking about, but each one has taken something like 10 million years to become a star. That's your mistake, thinking they form in a very short time frame.

                      This is from a basic introduction to the subject....
                      Star formation begins when the denser parts of the cloud core collapse under their own weight/gravity. These cores typically have masses around 104 solar masses in the form of gas and dust. The cores are denser than the outer cloud, so they collapse first. As the cores collapse they fragment into clumps around 0.1 parsecs in size and 10 to 50 solar masses in mass. These clumps then form into protostars and the whole process takes about 10 millions years.
                      ...found here...http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast122/lectures/lec13.html

                      There are many more web pages saying the same thing that take seconds to find.


                      "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose." JBS Haldane.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                        I'm not the one who has stated that 740 stars were churned out in a single year.
                        Actually, it appears that you are the one who has stated that 740 stars were churned out in a single year. At least the Wikipedia article, the MIT article, and every other article I can find doesn't include the phrase "single year" with regard to stars being created.

                        They are all talking about the long term average number of stars per year, as everyone here has been trying to tell you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ajarntham View Post

                          You entirely misunderstand what that means, however. It does not mean that it took a year or less, from beginning to completion, for those stars to form. Just as "Toyota put out 500 cars in a single hour" does not mean that it took an hour or less, from beginning to completion, for those cars to be made. Do you acknowledge the difference? (Is there anybody else who does not see the difference?)

                          You are making this argument, apparently, because it helps you to believe in the six-day creation: "that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem," you say. But even if it takes 100,000 to 10,000,000 years for a star to form naturally, it still isn't a problem for an omnipotent, supernatural being (if such a being exists) to make them in a day (or a millisecond, if he preferred). So it's something of a puzzle why you think this is a hill worth defending.
                          Did you actually read the articles?
                          God is real. He can be known. You only cheat yourself by giving what you call reasons, and are nothing more than excuses. There's an old saying:
                          an excuse is nothing more than a skin of reason, over a skeleton of lies.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                            Last week I made mention of there having been a study from 2011/12 that found there were 720 stars churned out in one year. Well.... I apparently had forgotten--- it's actually 740 new stars in a single year, which would explain why I wasn't able to find it. Which had actually been quite irritating, because I recalled seeing several article, which I recalled posting on the previous forums I'd been on prior to my coming to this one.

                            So.... MIT... in 2012 published a study done that found a cluster galaxy--- far far away.... Maybe George Lucas wasn't so weird after all..... had been "churcning out 740 new stars in a single year.

                            From Wikipedia. If you google "740 new stars in a single year", the Wikipedia article will be the first thing. I'd offer a link, but I'm limited to two links, and they're below, and seem more important to me than Wikipedia's.

                            Lying within the bounds of the constellation is the gigantic Phoenix cluster, which is around 7.3 million light years wide and 5.7 billion light years away, making it one of the most massive galaxy clusters. It was first discovered in 2010, and the central galaxy is producing an estimated 740 new stars a year.[55] Larger still is El Gordo, or officially ACT-CL J0102-4915, whose discovery was announced in 2012.[56] Located around 7.2 billion light years away, it is composed of two subclusters in the process of colliding, resulting in the spewing out of hot gas, seen in X-rays and infrared images.[57]


                            The 55 footnote reference is this MIT article.
                            http://news.mit.edu/2012/cool-lumino...dentified-0815

                            It was this article, along with several others--- probably all written on this article--- that gives me reason to believe that God kicking out a new cosmos in 6 days isn't a problem.

                            You're going to have to spend the money for the article from Nature for yourself.
                            https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11379


                            So..... since it doesn't take long at all to create new stars... I mean seriously.... 740 new stars in a single year? That's over 2 stars a day.
                            Didn't god make all the stars on the 4th day?

                            With all the conflicting religious beliefs in the world, they can’t all be right. But they can all be wrong.
                            Herb Silverman.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If those stars are 5.7 billion light years away, they were formed 5.7 billion years ago, if we are only able to see them today as opposed to yesterday.

                              Comment

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