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Half a Wing is better than No Wing at all

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  • Half a Wing is better than No Wing at all

    Creos often ask what good is half a ...(*eye, leg, wing, etc); in this video HHMI explores Theropod-Bird evolution with the question; what is half a wing?

    Of course anyone who is completely blind would easily welcome the ability to detect some light; because yes, half a wing/eye/ etc is better than none.


  • #2
    I wonder how long it will take for the mindless comment + Feduccia quote + insult from rook will show up?
    "The dolphin would be its shape if it was just farming carrots." - Robert Byers

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Promethean View Post
      Creos often ask what good is half a ...(*eye, leg, wing, etc); in this video HHMI explores Theropod-Bird evolution with the question; what is half a wing?
      But what naturalistic mechanism can evolve a dino forearm into half a wing and then into a full wing? And what naturalistic mechanism can evolve scales into feathers required for flight? And what naturalistic flight school did theropods attend to learn how to fly? And where is the required fossil lineage from theropods to birds of flight?
      Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. ~ Michael Ruse, evolutionist

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rook View Post
        But what naturalistic mechanism can evolve a dino forearm into half a wing and then into a full wing? And what naturalistic mechanism can evolve scales into feathers required for flight? And where is the required fossil lineage that identifies all the intermediaries that transform a theropod to bird of flight?
        We've already discussed that 6 months ago with a thread I started on placodes

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Promethean View Post

          We've already discussed that 6 months ago with a thread I started on placodes
          Then you should be well qualified to answer my questions. Will he be able to defend his thread? Rhetorical.
          Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. ~ Michael Ruse, evolutionist

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          • #6
            Originally posted by rook View Post

            Then you should be well qualified to answer my questions. Will he be able to defend his thread? Rhetorical.
            I'm not in the habit of trying to educate people dedicated to their own ignorance. The thread is available.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Himantolophus View Post
              I wonder how long it will take for the mindless comment + Feduccia quote + insult from rook will show up?
              Looks like it was about an hour and a half.
              “We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture” - creationist Pastor Ray Mummert on the Kitzmiller V. Dover trial

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              • #8
                The whole what good is half a wing canard reminds me of this comic where a Microraptor (which has four wings) wonders "what use are only two wings": http://querylog.com/img/seven-wings-between-them.jpg
                Evolution IS God's Intelligent Design

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rook View Post
                  But what naturalistic mechanism can evolve a dino forearm into half a wing and then into a full wing?
                  a lengthening of the dino's forearm by mutation and selection. A longer feathered arm will be more useful than a shorter one

                  And what naturalistic mechanism can evolve scales into feathers required for flight?
                  quite well studied. Mutation at specific Hox genes

                  And what naturalistic flight school did theropods attend to learn how to fly?
                  none.

                  And where is the required fossil lineage from theropods to birds of flight?
                  very rich and full of transitional forms



                  "The dolphin would be its shape if it was just farming carrots." - Robert Byers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rook View Post
                    But what naturalistic mechanism can evolve a dino forearm into half a wing and then into a full wing?
                    Natural selection acting on mutations in the right environment and niche.
                    And what naturalistic mechanism can evolve scales into feathers required for flight?
                    Natural selection acting on mutations in the right environment and niche.
                    And what naturalistic flight school did theropods attend to learn how to fly?
                    If you start by jumping off a log, you don't need a lot of skill to not die.
                    And where is the required fossil lineage from theropods to birds of flight?
                    Museums and collections worldwide. You just don't think they count.

                    You didn't actually argue yet, but if you had it would have been the argument from incredulity.
                    To tell if something is Mormon doctrine:
                    Is it in our scriptures?
                    Is it taught today?
                    Is it officially endorsed by the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles?
                    If not, it isn't doctrine!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NoOtherName View Post

                      Museums and collections worldwide. You just don't think they count.
                      Again, all you need to do is provide the required fossil lineage from theropods to birds of flight? But, alas folks, he can't do it. Next.
                      The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent...

                      To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story—amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific. ~ In Search of Deep Time—Beyond the Fossil Record to a New History of Life, by Henry Gee
                      Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. ~ Michael Ruse, evolutionist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Promethean View Post
                        Creos often ask what good is half a ...(*eye, leg, wing, etc); in this video HHMI explores Theropod-Bird evolution with the question; what is half a wing?

                        Of course anyone who is completely blind would easily welcome the ability to detect some light; because yes, half a wing/eye/ etc is better than none.

                        I know many Republicans and Democrats who would disagree that half a wing is better than no wing. They think you should either take the whole wing or no wing.

                        Although I am sure we all just wing it when it comes to such matters.
                        Last edited by Pragmatic; 12-22-16, 09:09 AM. Reason: Fixed some really strange spelling errors
                        If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. - Voltaire

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Promethean View Post
                          Creos often ask what good is half a ...(*eye, leg, wing, etc); in this video HHMI explores Theropod-Bird evolution with the question; what is half a wing?

                          Of course anyone who is completely blind would easily welcome the ability to detect some light; because yes, half a wing/eye/ etc is better than none.

                          One take away.....I noticed in the video the red shirt guy used birds with fully developed wings...baby's yes, but still "modern" using evo terms, wings.
                          Basically the guy showed us...birds flap their wings.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cygnus View Post

                            One take away.....I noticed in the video the red shirt guy used birds with fully developed wings...baby's yes, but still "modern" using evo terms, wings.
                            Basically the guy showed us...birds flap their wings.
                            In other words the whole point of the demonstration and the video went right over your head.

                            There are two competing hypotheses for the origin of avian flight. The one in the video is the ground up idea known as WAIR - wing assisted inclined running. The other is the tree down idea where early proto-birds first glided between and down from trees much like today's flying squirrels do. Both hypotheses have some evidence and it's possible both played a part in the development of flapping flight. This is one we may never know for sure without a time machine.
                            “We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture” - creationist Pastor Ray Mummert on the Kitzmiller V. Dover trial

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cygnus View Post

                              One take away.....I noticed in the video the red shirt guy used birds with fully developed wings...baby's yes, but still "modern" using evo terms, wings.
                              Basically the guy showed us...birds flap their wings.
                              Baby bird winds are not smaller versions of the adult's wings; they are in fact closer to archaic wings both in shape and its feathers.

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