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Does Complexity Indicate GOD

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  • Originally posted by ChemEngineer View Post

    How is it that you are not hatefully attacked by your atheist allies? Do they only despise and maliciously ridicule Christians, with our ONE God?
    You should be tens of thousands of times more susceptible, as it is "Turtles all the way down" in your system, I believe.
    You are not ridiculed for being a Christian, but for the incredible arrogance - combined with ignorance - which your posts are showing.
    Regards, HRG.

    "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ChemEngineer View Post
      Since the self-proclaimed authorities of the "secular" message boards have repeatedly denounced "quote mining," I will refer them to Darwin's Enigma - Ebbing the Tide of Naturalism, by Luther Sunderland. The Wistar Conferences are cited, where experts from all scientific fields met to discuss and analyze Darwin's tautology, which was exposed as a fraud.

      I further refer self-proclaimed geniuses to read Undeniable: How Biology Confirms Our Intuition That Life is Designed, by Douglas Axe. In it, Dr. Axe cites biochemical experiments which conclusively demonstrate that Darwin's tautology is impossible. Science doesn't do "proofs," but that never ever stops the Proud and the Haughty from DEMANDING that all "YECs" PROVE anything they might have to say.

      Further correction to all geniuses in their own mind: I have never claimed to be a YEC, though they have repeatedly called me one, as if to besmirch and humiliate me, as is their condescending practice. One need not have any alternative "theory" in order to reject the unsupportable claims of Darwinism. Science simply rejects what is unsound, whenever that is necessary.

      I have read numerous books on evolutionary biology, including those by Richard Dawkins, and when I sent my critiques to Dawkins himself, he did not so much as attempt to refute any of the points I made. All he could do was call me hateful names, as his acolytes do here so fitfully.
      As someone already noted, the arrogance of a Creationist is always inversely proportional to his scientific knowledge. Right now you're being the poster boy for that truism.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tim H View Post
        As someone already noted, the arrogance of a Creationist is always inversely proportional to his scientific knowledge. Right now you're being the poster boy for that truism.
        Right now, Dr. Dunning and Dr. Kruger are smiling.

        rossum
        The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

        Comment


        • "If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

          "Heavier-than-air flight is impossible." - Lord Kelvin, 1895, president of the Royal Society

          Orville flew in 1903, without a pilot's license, without engineering training, without the vaunted credentials Darwinists worship so foolishly, so ignorantly

          Evolutionists "despise so-called scientific creationists". - The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, page 230

          Indeed they do, while I have nothing but contempt for hateful evolutionists. Not hatred, contempt. Ignorant pretenders of intellectual superiority should not confuse the two. Hate speech is what the godless left excels at.
          Last edited by ChemEngineer; 01-12-18, 01:35 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ChemEngineer View Post
            "If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." - Orville Wright

            "Heavier-than-air flight is impossible." - Lord Kelvin, 1895, president of the Royal Society

            Orville flew in 1903, without a pilot's license, without engineering training, without the vaunted credentials Darwinists worship so foolishly, so ignorantly

            Evolutionists "despise so-called scientific creationists". - The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, page 230

            Indeed they do, while I have nothing but contempt for hateful evolutionists. Not hatred, contempt. Ignorant pretenders of intellectual superiority should not confuse the two. Hate speech is what the godless left excels at.
            Without a dog in this fight, I have to ask why the conflation of politics (godless left) with religion?

            What does a person's politics have to do with the question of evolution or creationism?

            If every evolutionist was a conservative and every creationist was liberal, would that make evolution correct and creationism wrong to you?

            I suspect this conflation of opinion is one of the reasons that you experience so much difficulty in these types of arguments.

            Try sticking to the subject at hand; science, and leave the politics out of it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JessAskin View Post

              Without a dog in this fight, I have to ask why the conflation of politics (godless left) with religion?

              What does a person's politics have to do with the question of evolution or creationism?
              Have you just stepped off a space ship from another galaxy?

              The godless left - polar opposite of the "religious right," has been hammering at Christians for YEARS, calling us "anti-science" and "ignorant."

              Have you ever challenged their insults?

              If every evolutionist was a conservative and every creationist was liberal, would that make evolution correct and creationism wrong to you?
              1. Every evolutionist is NOT a conservative.
              2. Every creationist is NOT a liberal.
              3. Do you always pose asinine questions?

              I suspect this conflation of opinion is one of the reasons that you experience so much difficulty in these types of arguments.

              Try sticking to the subject at hand; science, and leave the politics out of it.
              That is what I have been telling your friends, the arrogant, condescending evolutionists, who attack me as you are doing.
              They never fail to inject religion into every discussion, and hatefully attack anyone opposing them as "YEC Creos" who are hopelessly "ignorant". Not mistaken.
              "IGNORANT" in the extreme. This isn't debate, it's hate speech, and it is epitomized by Richard Dawkins, who is supposed to be a scholar, responsible
              for teaching impressionable youth, whom he has long brainwashed.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tim H View Post
                Very interesting Tim. Try to think of where such complexity came from, and the pure form these fractals represent. Many see the rules of math as God's thumbprint not the random processes of chance. neither do we swallow the idea that laws of math and physics somehow just exist.
                In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe (Hebrews 1:1-2).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HRG View Post
                  More than that: it is arbitrarily complex. It has fractal dimensions, but iot is defined by a quadratic formula. The Lorenz attractor which I mentioned is defined by 3 bilinear differential equations.

                  HRG do you know that you are giving a very intelligent response, yet arguing continually that no intelligence was needed to form the universe in the first place?
                  In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe (Hebrews 1:1-2).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tim H View Post

                    As someone already noted, the arrogance of a Creationist is always inversely proportional to his scientific knowledge. Right now you're being the poster boy for that truism.
                    ...and Tim resorts to his usual criticisms when he lacks a decent response in return. Arrogance is when you specifically believe you are right and everyone else is wrong. Only God can take this position because he has unlimited knowledge. Bible believing creationists simply point people like you to what God has said about the beginning. If you don't like it then that is your consequence. In the meantime, stop acting like God, pontificating about your absolute correctness. Chem Engineer is being honest and you should applaud that instead of hiding behind your own arrogance firing off broadsides of abuse.
                    In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe (Hebrews 1:1-2).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post

                      ...and Tim resorts to his usual criticisms when he lacks a decent response in return. Arrogance is when you specifically believe you are right and everyone else is wrong. Only God can take this position because he has unlimited knowledge.
                      But you have only limited knowledge. Perhaps you are mistaken about the existence of this God.

                      Bible believing creationists simply point people like you to what God has said about the beginning. If you don't like it then that is your consequence.
                      Creationists have only limited knowledge either. How can they know that this God not only exists, but has said something about a "beginning" ?

                      Gentle readers, isn't it curious that many creationists suddenly become infallible when the topic is the authorship and interpretation of the Bible ?
                      Regards, HRG.

                      "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post
                        HRG do you know that you are giving a very intelligent response, yet arguing continually that no intelligence was needed to form the universe in the first place?
                        The universe today contains both armadillos and intelligence. No armadillos were needed to form the universe in the first place. No intelligence was needed to form the universe in the first place. Both armadillos and intelligence are emergent properties which were not present in the Big Bang, but which emerged later.

                        rossum
                        The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post
                          Only God can take this position because he has unlimited knowledge.
                          You only have limited knowledge, and in this case you are wrong. Only Vishnu can take this position because he has unlimited knowledge.

                          Where is your evidence that Vishnu did not create the universe as described in Hindu scriptures?

                          rossum
                          The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post

                            ...and Tim resorts to his usual criticisms when he lacks a decent response in return. Arrogance is when you specifically believe you are right and everyone else is wrong. Only God can take this position because he has unlimited knowledge. Bible believing creationists simply point people like you to what God has said about the beginning. If you don't like it then that is your consequence. In the meantime, stop acting like God, pontificating about your absolute correctness. Chem Engineer is being honest and you should applaud that instead of hiding behind your own arrogance firing off broadsides of abuse.
                            But I have conclusively demonstrated through published research in the primary scientific literature ChemE's strawman version of evolution is 100% wrong. An honest but dead wrong Creationist is still dead wrong.

                            I wonder if you'll be man enough to retract your false claim the 14C record supports Creationism better than actual science? I bet no.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post

                              Very interesting Tim. Try to think of where such complexity came from, and the pure form these fractals represent. Many see the rules of math as God's thumbprint not the random processes of chance. neither do we swallow the idea that laws of math and physics somehow just exist.
                              Is your God so weak and impotent He couldn't have used evolutionary processes to produce the species we see today?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MarkSC View Post

                                Very interesting Tim. Try to think of where such complexity came from, and the pure form these fractals represent. Many see the rules of math as God's thumbprint not the random processes of chance. neither do we swallow the idea that laws of math and physics somehow just exist.
                                Complexity is not a conserved property, thus the question where it came from is meaningless. No one regards mathematics as a product of any "random processes of chance". The "laws of physics" exist because physicists have written them down as descriptions and partial explanations of the behavior of the universe.

                                BTW, you swallow the idea that your God somehow just exists, don't you ?
                                Regards, HRG.

                                "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                                Comment

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