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What's that time stuff ?

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  • What's that time stuff ?

    Before a discussion some facts* are in order:

    1.) Time is slower at the center of the Earth.

    2.) A second in time is: 9,912,631,770 periods of the transition between two hyperfine energy states in a Cesium 133 atom.

    3.) Dinosaurs experienced 370 days per year instead of our current 365.25 days due to the moon's gravitational drag on Earth's orbit.

    4.) The smallest amount of time is the Planck time. [ Example: During a -fast- blink of the eye, there are approximately five hundred and fifty thousand trillion, trillion, trillion Planck time units. ]

    5.) There is no "now" in Physics. The fabric of the universe, spacetime, is closer to a fluid specified by coordinates and affected by gravity. Past, present, and future are a construction for our reference only.

    6.) The Sun's light currently reaching us is eight minutes and twenty seconds old. From Proxima Centrauri is about four years old.

    7.) Our perception of time seems shorter as one gets older. ( the oddball effect )

    8.) The most precise clock is a strontium clock varying only a second in 15 billion years.

    9.) The oldest known object in the universe is 13.1 billion years old. ( Dwarf Galaxy z8_GND_5296 )

    10.) Next week your watch will be one second slow due to the Earth's spin deceleration. ( see the international earth rotation service )

    Inertia
    .............

    *Blog reference: Sci-techuniverse . blogspot . com /2016/01/13-facts-about-time-that-will-hurt-your.html
    Last edited by inertia; 04-26-16, 12:23 PM.
    "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

    Heisenberg
    .....................

    " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

  • #2
    I would reply to each point but I don't have time right now.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rain View Post
      I would reply to each point but I don't have time right now.
      Is it flowing past you too fast, or are you flowing through it too fast?
      "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

      Heisenberg
      .....................

      " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

      Comment


      • #4
        photos of the future

        Remembering the future is difficult for me and many other people like me. A company that specialized in photographs of the future would be very profitable for this reason. All the company has to do is overcome a psychological barrier of erasing memory.

        Theorists have argued that recording information always involves erasing—for example, initializing a computer memory at the start [1]. Since erasure always increases entropy [2], the psychological arrow of time aligns with the thermodynamic one.

        But Leonard Mlodinow of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena and Todd Brun of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles say that this argument is not quite complete. You can, in principle, get rid of any need for erasure and initialization just by remembering everything—which means that recording information in the memory is then fully reversible in time.
        Is our theoretical anticipation of events in Newtonian physics equivalent to a "memory" of the future? Unforeseen influences provide uncertainty here too, and theory only predicts a single characterized event instead of every possible nuance surrounding the event.

        Inertia
        ..................

        Reference: APS Physics
        "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

        Heisenberg
        .....................

        " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by inertia View Post
          Before a discussion some facts* are in order:

          1.) Time is slower at the center of the Earth.

          2.) A second in time is: 9,912,631,770 periods of the transition between two hyperfine energy states in a Cesium 133 atom.

          3.) Dinosaurs experienced 370 days per year instead of our current 365.25 days due to the moon's gravitational drag on Earth's orbit.

          4.) The smallest amount of time is the Planck time. [ Example: During a -fast- blink of the eye, there are approximately five hundred and fifty thousand trillion, trillion, trillion Planck time units. ]

          5.) There is no "now" in Physics. The fabric of the universe, spacetime, is closer to a fluid specified by coordinates and affected by gravity. Past, present, and future are a construction for our reference only.

          6.) The Sun's light currently reaching us is eight minutes and twenty seconds old. From Proxima Centrauri is about four years old.

          7.) Our perception of time seems shorter as one gets older. ( the oddball effect )

          8.) The most precise clock is a strontium clock varying only a second in 15 billion years.

          9.) The oldest known object in the universe is 13.1 billion years old. ( Dwarf Galaxy z8_GND_5296 )

          10.) Next week your watch will be one second slow due to the Earth's spin deceleration. ( see the international earth rotation service )

          Inertia
          .............

          *Blog reference: Sci-techuniverse . blogspot . com /2016/01/13-facts-about-time-that-will-hurt-your.html
          I am a bit iffy about (5) because past events are fixed in a way the future is not due to quantum wavefunction collapse (or decoherence) effects even without 2nd law considerations. Even in a fully equilibriated "heat death" universe, a Maxwell's demon can know the past exactly and the future only probabilistically, with the probabilities dispersing into more and more possibilities as it tries to predict the far future.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sayak83 View Post
            I am a bit iffy about (5) because past events are fixed in a way the future is not due to quantum wavefunction collapse (or decoherence) effects even without 2nd law considerations. Even in a fully equilibriated "heat death" universe, a Maxwell's demon can know the past exactly and the future only probabilistically, with the probabilities dispersing into more and more possibilities as it tries to predict the far future.
            I was never settled with the Copenhagen interpretation (wavefunction collapse) because the Schrodinger equation -never- vanishes, and the reality that the Copenhagen interpretation has never been mathematically formalized gives me pause in its ability to reflect actual physics. Maxwell's demon will not 'break' the second law.

            Inertia
            "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

            Heisenberg
            .....................

            " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by inertia View Post
              I was never settled with the Copenhagen interpretation (wavefunction collapse) because the Schrodinger equation -never- vanishes, and the reality that the Copenhagen interpretation has never been mathematically formalized gives me pause in its ability to reflect actual physics. Maxwell's demon will not 'break' the second law.

              Inertia
              Actually it has been.
              The wavefunction collapse is added on to QM because its the Schrodinger equation that fails to accurately reflect reality when a carefully prepared quantum system entangles itself with "noisy classical" object. Decoherence explains why the Quantum state- Environment interaction leads to destruction of the internally superposed quantum states into a mixture of classical probability outcomes. This still makes the system indeterministic as only one of the classical possibilities are actually realized and nothing in either the original QM state or the environment can determine which one will be realized. Furthermore this decoherence is an irreversible process and every collapse/decoherence event (and billions are happening all around us) creates an objective distinction between the past and the future. And it does so with an inherently stochastic process.


              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sayak83 View Post
                Actually it has been.
                The wavefunction collapse is added on to QM because its the Schrodinger equation that fails to accurately reflect reality when a carefully prepared quantum system entangles itself with "noisy classical" object. Decoherence explains why the Quantum state- Environment interaction leads to destruction of the internally superposed quantum states into a mixture of classical probability outcomes. This still makes the system indeterministic as only one of the classical possibilities are actually realized and nothing in either the original QM state or the environment can determine which one will be realized. Furthermore this decoherence is an irreversible process and every collapse/decoherence event (and billions are happening all around us) creates an objective distinction between the past and the future. And it does so with an inherently stochastic process.


                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence
                Excellent reference, but I disagree that the Schrodinger equation fails to accurately reflect reality.

                Decoherence does not generate actual wave function collapse. It only provides an explanation for the observation of wave function collapse, as the quantum nature of the system "leaks" into the environment..<snip>..Specifically, decoherence does not attempt to explain the measurement problem. Rather, decoherence provides an explanation for the transition of the system to a mixture of states that seem to correspond to those states observers perceive.
                I'm not fully settled about decoherence histories because each and every quantum outcome incorporated within a wavefunction contends for realization. Precisely how does one quantum state become realized when other probabilities diminish? Decoherence does not provide further detail. That said, it allows quantum probabilities to be interpreted similarly to classical probabilities*. Schrodinger's equation could me modified to incorporate a collapse mechanism but as it stands it is a hugely successful theoretical framework.

                The impact on the "arrow of time" depends on whether proposed modifications introduce asymmetry between one direction in time or another. So far, forward and backward in time makes no difference in temporal evolution in our theories. Temporal symmetry remains. In distinguishing past and future, will the proposals guarantee a lower entropy in the past?

                Inertia
                ..............

                * Therefore interference (the two-slit experiment) can no longer exist when discussing classical probability. After all, coherence in physical optics is defined by the visibility of fringes.
                Last edited by inertia; 07-17-16, 02:02 AM.
                "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

                Heisenberg
                .....................

                " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

                Comment


                • #9
                  ..meanwhile

                  ..The backdrop

                  ...for the steady growth of entanglement throughout the universe is, of course, time itself. The physicists stress that despite great advances in understanding how changes in time occur, they have made no progress in uncovering the nature of time itself or why it seems different (both perceptually and in the equations of quantum mechanics) than the three dimensions of space. Popescu calls this “one of the greatest unknowns in physics.”

                  “We can discuss the fact that an hour ago, our brains were in a state that was correlated with fewer things,” he said. “But our perception that time is flowing — that is a different matter altogether. Most probably, we will need a further revolution in physics that will tell us about that.
                  The quote is from: WiRed


                  Inertia
                  "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

                  Heisenberg
                  .....................

                  " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Update: Superposition experimentally validated

                    See --- > A Schrodinger cat living in two boxes

                    Inertia
                    "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

                    Heisenberg
                    .....................

                    " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rain View Post
                      I would reply to each point but I don't have time right now.
                      All I want to know is what TIME is it anyway? I have a feeling my dog has a better grasp of QM than I do.
                      “Atheism is a non-prophet organization.”
                      ― George Carlin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dr Pepper View Post

                        All I want to know is what TIME is it anyway? I have a feeling my dog has a better grasp of QM than I do.
                        It's my understanding that time, in the energy-time Heisenberg uncertainty relation, can be interpreted as the -uncertainty- of a time measurement by a classical clock. That said, it depends on the application of Heisenberg uncertainty because the time can also be interpreted as a measurement of the lifetime of a decaying state that produces a natural linewidth in spectroscopy.

                        This is an example of how time directly effects energy in optical spectra. Time is clearly not a product of human imagination as some believe.
                        "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

                        Heisenberg
                        .....................

                        " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by inertia View Post
                          Before a discussion some facts* are in order:

                          1.) Time is slower at the center of the Earth.

                          2.) A second in time is: 9,912,631,770 periods of the transition between two hyperfine energy states in a Cesium 133 atom.

                          3.) Dinosaurs experienced 370 days per year instead of our current 365.25 days due to the moon's gravitational drag on Earth's orbit.

                          4.) The smallest amount of time is the Planck time. [ Example: During a -fast- blink of the eye, there are approximately five hundred and fifty thousand trillion, trillion, trillion Planck time units. ]

                          5.) There is no "now" in Physics. The fabric of the universe, spacetime, is closer to a fluid specified by coordinates and affected by gravity. Past, present, and future are a construction for our reference only.

                          6.) The Sun's light currently reaching us is eight minutes and twenty seconds old. From Proxima Centrauri is about four years old.

                          7.) Our perception of time seems shorter as one gets older. ( the oddball effect )

                          8.) The most precise clock is a strontium clock varying only a second in 15 billion years.

                          9.) The oldest known object in the universe is 13.1 billion years old. ( Dwarf Galaxy z8_GND_5296 )

                          10.) Next week your watch will be one second slow due to the Earth's spin deceleration. ( see the international earth rotation service )

                          Inertia
                          .............

                          *Blog reference: Sci-techuniverse . blogspot . com /2016/01/13-facts-about-time-that-will-hurt-your.html
                          Nice collection of facts.

                          BTW, the drag in 3) is on Earth's quadrupole moment (mostly of its oceans) which by friction slows its rotation. It doesn't affect its orbit around the sun.

                          HRG, Nitpicker Indefatigable.
                          Regards, HRG.

                          "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HRG View Post

                            Nice collection of facts.

                            BTW, the drag in 3) is on Earth's quadrupole moment (mostly of its oceans) which by friction slows its rotation. It doesn't affect its orbit around the sun.

                            HRG, Nitpicker Indefatigable.
                            Right - it is the rotational angular momentum along its daily spin axis that increases our day by 2.3 milliseconds per century. [ http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../tidfrict.html ]

                            Thanks for the correction.
                            "The exact sciences also start from the assumption that in the end it will always be possible to understand nature, even in every new field of experience, but that we make no a priori assumptions about the meaning of the word "understand"."

                            Heisenberg
                            .....................

                            " It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it is the glory of a king to search out a matter. " ( Proverbs 25:2 )

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dr Pepper View Post

                              All I want to know is what TIME is it anyway? I have a feeling my dog has a better grasp of QM than I do.
                              Time is that which prevents all events from happening simultaneously.

                              (HRG, Coll. Works vol. XVI, p. 1321)
                              Regards, HRG.

                              "The universe doesn't care what happens to its inhabitants, but its inhabitants do" (Tyrrho).

                              Comment

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