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The causation of Christianity born from Ancient Near Eastern religious ideologies.

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  • The causation of Christianity born from Ancient Near Eastern religious ideologies.


    The timeline of Christianity can nearly be traced to its roots in the ancient "Israelite" tribal occultist belief traditions, while it is known that Christian folklore has evolved over time, it's safe to say that
    Christianity with the advent of the New Testament has implicitly strayed from its cultural roots, but not from widely accepted belief customs that stray from cultural and societal views.

    Culturally speaking the Jewish God is among other deities or for the ancient Israelite's their God that they claim is their supreme deity in their pantheon. Many non-Jewish authors were familiar with the Jewish divine name IAO and at times discussed it, Philo of Byblos:

    "There has been and is much disagreement among the theologians about the God honored among the Hebrews. The Roman Varro says, in discussing him, that among the Chaldeans in their mysteries he is called IAO and this means intelligible light in the Phoenician language as Herennius says"

    The Jewish God is discussed by other classical writers, Strabo of Amesia recounted the origins of Jewish religion, the teachings of Moses, which included Jewish aniconism. According to Strabo God is this one thing alone that encompasses us all and encompasses land and sea. Tacitus notes that Jewish monotheism was known as the Jewish God more generally. More ever, the Jewish God figured in cases of non-Jewish translate-ability with Dionysius or Zeus or Jupiter. In the Greco-Roman context these instances occasional little surprise. Before reviewing some of the more interesting cases we should take warning, that seeing in every instance of IAO and attestation of the Jewish divine name. In accordance with this cautionary note, we will limit our discussion to what seem to be clear uses of the Jewish divine name and context involving translate ability. In some instances of translate ability IAO is construed as the highest God or supreme God of gods. So, what we see here is a comparison of gods from different cultures such as Greco-Roman and Greek and how they are the supreme God, while the Jewish God takes on the same form in the Jewish pantheon.

    Many magical texts, both Greek and demotic, deploy a translate ability involving IAO. However, we are not speaking only of translate-ability in the narrow sense. This also shows the Jewish divine name playing a magical role alongside other deities and their names. In this way, the Jewish God joins an international Congress of deities recognized for their power. It is a quality of power that is recognized as the basis for deities and their names functioning either together or individually within magical texts.

    An example of these magical texts invokes the Jewish God into forms often the more common Greek IAO, we can see this in Leviticus 2-5 at 3:12 and 4:27, but sometimes with the rarer demotic IAHO, this name stands much closer to Yahu/Yah. In addition to these forms of divine name we see the title Adonai. Occasionally the Jewish divine names serve as part of a larger concept of divinity. Example, a prayer, which at the time is also seen as a spell, contains the following:

    "The one having appeared before the universe in accordance with your eternal nature, the untiring one, the one who... I call upon you, Lord Almighty, the unknown one, the pure soul, I, the one.... Having been sanctified. Be merciful to me, O Zeus – IAO – Zen-Helios".

    In this instance, IAO is part of a long combination or fusion and is infused with a name consisting amongst important deities, this issuing in a single super deity. Another example comes from a love spell attested in a great apparatus in the Paris bibliotheque. This ritual is designed to bind the object of the speaker’s desire to himself. In one component of the ritual, the names of various deities are to be written on different parts of a magical female figuring. This procedure reflects a correlation and hierarchy between deities and body parts, with IAO assigned the head, Ammon the face, Thoth the heart and derivatives of the Semitic Melech King, which would be the arms and hands.

    These two magical text exhibit different sides of magical praxis using the name of IAO in tandem with different major deities: the invocation of a long combination name and magical figurine. These magical uses are not distant from some models of divinity known from earlier periods in the ancient near East, such as various gods construed as the different body parts of Marduk or with the combination of Amun-Ra in the late Bronze Age.

    There are of course differences when in the earlier usages derived from national religion and politics, while in the context for these two Greco-Roman texts is individual and personal. What is particularly distinctive for this investigation is at the deities and Greco-Roman combinations of deities come from different regions in the Mediterranean. It is cross-cultural in character in contrast with the one God representation of Amun-Ra in the late Bronze Age, or Marduk, and assur or Yahweh in the iron age.

    From this magical text, a cultural observation is made. This document, with its combination of Egyptian gods with the Jewish IAO, points to Alexandrian Judaism as one conduit through which the name of the Jewish deity passed into broader Greco-Roman magical discourse. This view would comport with evidence known from the third century A.D. Egyptian magical text from Egypt known as the Leiden Papyrus. This demotic magical book contains numerous spells with the Jewish God under his name Yaho. This form of divine name stands closer to its original Hebrew form then Greek IAO. At the same time this Tech show signs of Greek influence on the Jewish elements they can be identified in it. For example, there is the form of divine name IAO, y-o, in the same papyrus, which reflects the influence of Greek IAO. In addition, one magical text in this papyrus uses the Greek form of the name Moses, and calling on a series of figures, and makes the following request:

    "Reveal yourself to me here today in the fashion of the revelation to Moses which you made upon the mountain, before whom you yourself created darkness and light."

    The Jewish elements in these Egyptian magical text point to Alexandria as their source, a context reflected also in the letter of Aristeas. This document was designed to explain the origins of the Septuagint translation in Alexandria. In line 140 of the text, the speaker attributes to Egyptian priest recognition of Jews as men of God. Much of this implies or shows that the Egyptians would've had influence upon the Jews, as we see before the Jewish God is Intertextually rooted in the Egyptian Gods. From this we can see that the ancient Israelite's participated in polytheistic practices.

    Even the idea of idol worship is seen in Biblical Christian circles, in Exodus 32:24 we see "gold" being cast into a fire to make a calf. I imply emphasis on "gold" being that during the times of the ancient Egyptians about 2000 BCE gold used by the Egyptians generally contains silver, often in substantial amounts, and it appears that for most of Egypt’s history gold was not refined to increase its purity. The color of a metal is affected by its composition gradations in hue that range between the bright yellow of a central boss that once embellished a vessel dating to the Third Intermediate Period for example. Hence Egyptian earrings would reflect this, also the gold used by the Egyptians and specifically Egyptian goldsmiths had added a significant amount of copper to a natural gold-silver alloy to attain a reddish hue. Gold is generally found in locations where there is a lot of quartz. So of course, the Egyptians who mined gold would have had this kind of access.

    The golden calf in the biblical texts is not necessarily a calf; it is fashioned to be a lunar bull or a young bull. As the Egyptians would have worshiped the living animal, and not an image of it. also, the bull is the symbol of divinity only among settled agriculturists, and not among nomads such as the Israelites then were. Among the Hebrews, as among the other agricultural Semites, the bull was associated with a deity in a sacred character as the Ox, more associated with Yahweh or Yahweh. However, the word Yahweh related in those times to Yahwistic cults and was banned.

    Gold like any other inanimate object is only useful when applied to social or cultural beliefs, Lapis Lazuli for example is a precious stone during early Mesopotamian times. The same occultist ideologies apply to Christian symbology when applied to its traditional mythologies, even the idea of powerful wands and staffs go right back in time to antiquity. The Biblical staff of Moses (Hebrew: מַטֶּה‎ matteh, translated "rod" in the King James) was used to produce water from a rock, was transformed into a snake and back, and was used at the parting of the Red Sea. In many early Christian depictions of Jesus, specifically related to the raising of Lazarus from the dead, he is shown to use a wand / rod. The rod being a symbol of authority in many cultures, linking right back to the very idea of divine Kingship we find at the heart of the Sumerian faith tradition. Often made of sacred cedar wood which links the divine and human realms. Sacred trees, their roots deep into the ground stretching down to the Netherworld, while their branches reach up to the Heavens above.

    Earlier in this blog I noted that "the Jewish God is among other deities or for the ancient Israelite's their God that they claim is their supreme deity in their pantheon," this is generally true however, the consensus would be that the Israelite's are not Israelite's, they arrive out of Canaan and long before that the myth hero patriarch Abraham exist Ur (Mesopotamia) and enters into Canaan.

    Canaanite people are referred to in the Bible, and so the land of Canaan is identifiable as the southern portion of Syria-Palestine (the area in which the Biblical narratives concerning the Canaanites are set). The Egyptians also referred to Canaan during the Late Bronze Age, and so Canaanites are the groups that they encounter. Exactly who the Canaanites where is a matter of some debate—were they a distinct group, or was the term used to describe various cultural groups in the area? Regardless, the terms Canaan and Canaanite eventually drop out of use when new powers consume the area. The Levant is a word which describes the whole Syro-Palestinian region as being eastern land. The first well-attested use of the word Israel comes from an Egyptian source, dating to the reign after Ramesses II (with whom our course ends) known as the Merneptah Stela (also known as the Israel Stela). during a mission to Canaan, King Merneptah claims to have destroyed Israel, but at this time is referring to a group of people rather than a state. The state of Israel goes on to develop in the early Iron Age, while states such as Egypt are declining in power. Eventually, the kingdom divides into Israel and Judah. These lands occupy much of the territory formerly known as Canaan.

    If the Israelite's worshiped Yahweh, then Yahweh is a Canaanite deity glorified in Christian folklore and exemplified with attributes to the fable hero Jesus.



  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    It would show more probity if sources were cited in this thread, and indeed one or two others that have recently been posted. Vast chunks of text with no attribution strikes me as slightly misleading.

    It is hardly beyond anyone to type in the title and authorship of books that are being cited when they are making their points. Or to provide links if they are using various online resources.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post

    In other words I'm not offering opinion, this is just what happened historically.
    It is only what happened historically from your chosen perspective, as it has been shown that your ‘historical’ research is lacking in regard to what Christianity actually is by your broad stroking remarks and your Biblical research is nothing more than what you want to retrieve to suit your purpose, which was addressed very early on in this thread and brushed off by you in your response.

    Post #26: Bonlee: What I actually had in mind, was your 'academic researching' skills, which would surely include being able to read something in context with surrounding data in order to be able to get a better understanding of what you are actually reading, and that holds true whether you're reading a history book, a novel, or the Bible. You certainly seem to be able to do so with the reading and research you've done on the Sumerian/Babylonian/Mesopotamian myths, but for some reason you are either not able or willing to do so when reading and researching the Bible. You proved this once by clipping out one verse from Hosea in the O.T. and coming to a conclusion based on it alone for no other reason than it suit your purpose at that time. When I posted more of the verses surrounding that one verse and showed that you were incorrect in your conclusion and suggested you read the whole chapter so that you could get a better understanding in context of what was really being said, you ignored it apparently, because not long after, you quoted that one verse again in order to support the same claim.

    You don't have to read the Bible with Jesus in mind at all, but to be intellectually honest academically speaking, you should at least make an effort to read it in context and present it in the same way.


    You asked earlier about me and concerning my "it's not necessarily my opinion" well it isn't, this is just what happened historically.
    From Post #28 Shamash:
    ..…..So all they did was use the Gods from Canaan and for some reason it became "divine", utter foolishness.

    This is a conclusion you’ve arrived at, based on information from your historical resources and your ability of processing that information, and your opinion derived from that information and the way you’ve chosen to perceive it and apply it for this thesis of yours.


    So, I'’m still trying to understand why you continually use such broad stroke comments, as if they are indeed fact when offering your opinion about something you’re not very knowledgeable about?

    Leave a comment:


  • Shamash
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    That's the good news.
    No it's actually not, it means that polytheism has influence on monotheism.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    And that's the bad news - to which we will be held accountable for and rightly so.
    That's the way history shaped Christianity what it is now, it isn't bad thing.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    And this, quite honestly, I’m not sure what this is???



    I'’m still trying to understand why you continually use such broad stroke comments, as if they are indeed fact when offering your opinion about something you’re not very knowledgeable about? I cringe at times with embarrassment for you when I read some of the pronouncements you make, which progressively indicate that you are out of your depth.



    In other words I'm not offering opinion, this is just what happened historically. You asked earlier about me and concerning my "it's not necessarily my opinion" well it isn't, this is just what happened historically.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post
    The reality is that Christianity is a religion that looks back to its Jewish roots but in so doing expands the possibility of redemption by extending the "kingdom" and the "promised land" beyond the Hebrew race or Jewish religion to the world at large.
    That's the good news.

    To the extent that the religion has insisted over the centuries that its way is the only way and/or that its myths are literally true, it has developed a militancy and a tendency toward fundamentalism that have often placed it at odds with the actual teachings of its de facto founder by instigating or supporting violence, abuse, and repression.
    And that's the bad news - to which we will be held accountable for and rightly so.

    Central to the Canaanite pantheon in its many local versions is a movement toward an understanding of deity that includes a high god associated with weather and storms who is somewhat distant from everyday life, a fertility god who is more present, and a feminine form of that deity.
    And this, quite honestly, I’m not sure what this is???

    The Hebrews developed a god (their understanding of Who He was developedHe wasn't developed, He always was Who He was – the God above all other gods) who reigned alone as at once a weather-storm deity, a god of judgment, and a war god, but who contained within himself aspects of the old deities who concerned themselves with fertility and life on earth. For the Christians that god became a somewhat distant figure (don’t know what ‘Christians’ you’d be referring too here-‘broad stroking’) whose nevertheless more loving purpose was to be accomplished by Jesus, a figure eventually seen as both human hero and an aspect of God. Christians,,(‘broad stroking’- many Christians have not succumbed to this)perhaps inadvertently, would over the centuries restore something of the feminine to the godhead through the esoteric understanding of Sophia, or divine wisdom—even for some the Holy Spirit aspect of God—and especially through the person of the Virgin Mary.
    I'’m still trying to understand why you continually use such broad stroke comments, as if they are indeed fact when offering your opinion about something you’re not very knowledgeable about? I cringe at times with embarrassment for you when I read some of the pronouncements you make, which progressively indicate that you are out of your depth.




    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post
    Divination is no different than supposed prophecy interceded by the divine. Hence, any form of "mancy" applies to supposed prophecy. So Biblical prophecy is no more than mere divination, in fact prophecy and divination as synonym's hence they are synonymous with each other.

    If the New Testament characters conducted any prophecy, prayer, etc... all this aligns in the realm of occultism.
    Just more of your opinions based on your preferred understanding, which in my opinion is incorrect, based on my preferred understanding.

    The Bible (O.T. & N.T.) gives clear record of the prophets of God and the false prophets of divination, and makes clear distinction between the two and that you are unable to recognise that distinction and add ” prayer,etc.” in with prophecy and arrive at the conclusion that they ‘align in the realm of occultism’, further exemplifies your lack of comprehension; revealing your ignorance of the information that the Bible actually contains.

    I assume this in reference to my personal experience is not the same as yours, so I'm not sure why you are sad to see that.
    It's pretty simple,it's because you're not seeing it from my perspective.

    The attempted converstion from a Christian to a non Christian usually comes in the form of discussion, debate, etc which is an aim to lead someone to Christianity,....
    Oh, thank you for explaining that to me, for awhile I just thought you were flailing around in paranoia about me attempting to ‘convert’ you. You do realize that my post that you quoted and even the one before it, wasn’t about YOU…..you didn’t even read my post, did you…..although, now re-reading it myself, I see that you may fall neatly into the second category of “for others….”

    The Israelite's have strong influence on what you refer to as "His truth", in fact so does the Ancient Near East, from the beginnings in Polytheism to the Israelite's later monotheistic conversion.
    It would be rather odd if there was no strong influence, in fact the Bible covers the strong influence, the ups/downs/side ways and back ups again - as you once put it - 'ad nauseum' - it right there throughout – it is all His Truth –all in the Bible, including Who He was/is - nothing to hide.


    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post
    The very fact that Yahweh and Baal are described similarly as they both come from the Canaanite's is a pretty good indicator of storm attributes given to Yahweh.
    The very FACT that the scriptures you referenced proclaim exactly Who Yahweh (was/is) is a pretty good indicator that He was/is above Baal and all other gods.

    I meant why you posted "conveniently", etc.,etc.

    Conveniently Yahweh doesn't reveal himself until after Abram leaves Canaan

    Yahweh and Baal are amalgamated, the issue of Yahweh being over other deities has no relevance to Yahweh and Baal being amalgamated.
    And this response to what I posted and what we were originally discussing, has no relevance to anything - other than you being able to post a simple 'opinion' of your own understanding.

    Sorry Shamash - but you posted all of that 'tevah' word stuff much earlier in the thread - and you got 'hung up' declaring, again, as if it were fact, that the meaning of 'tevah' did not mean ark and the Bible got it wrong.....blah, blah, blah.....basically....so what??? You're a supposed etymologist, why would it astound you to find a word that has never been in use, ever, anywhere, but has been used, transliterated from other ancient words, from other ancient cultures that as you've constantly been pointing out throughout this thread were 'cross pollinated' over the centuries....surprise, surprise!

    It isn't necessarily "my opinion", but you really give no clarification.
    Really??? I DID give you clarification, anyone can simply scroll back and see the line of discussion and the opinion you gave. Claiming that it is not necessarily your opinion means you were plagiarizing and using someone else's comments without giving them credit, or you're really a very confused individual.


    ...............

    Have to break this up...finish response later!

    Leave a comment:


  • Shamash
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    What is obvious is that God is above and over all other gods, including Baal.
    The very fact that Yahweh and Baal are described similarly as they both come from the Canaanite's is a pretty good indicator of storm attributes given to Yahweh.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Please go on and elaborate a bit more on this and why you think this is?
    Yahweh reveals himself technically after Abram leaves Canaan. This happens after Melchezedik brings out the wine & bread, which is traditionally and seen later as a Baal-Peor ritual, the text goes on to conclude that additionally Melchezedik is priest of the Most High God, and since Melchezedik is a Canaanite priest this will be El in Canaan.

    A Semitic word for "god" is el or //(thus Elohim and al-ilah or Allah}.
    In second-millennium B.C.E. god lists found at Ugarit there are several
    Els or versions of El. There is the El of the holy mountain Sapan
    (Tsafon); the Ilib (Elib), or "father god," who contains the spirits of
    the dead; and the El who, like so many Near Eastern high gods, is associated with the bull and is perhaps the creator. The
    Greeks thought of El as Kronos, the father of Zeus. Dagan (Dagon) is another vehicle for the high-god concept, perhaps an early personification of El. He has fertility aspects, as his name seems to mean "grain." Dagan existed at Ebla as early as the third millennium B.C.E. and was assimilated as the high god of the Philistines in the late second millennium.

    It can be argued that the most important expression of the high god
    in Canaan, however, was Baal in his many forms. But usually Baal took
    second position to a father, sometimes El, sometimes Dagan. Baal was at once a weather-storm god of great power and a dying god and fertilizer
    of the earth. For the Philistines he was Baalzebub, a healer, whom the Greeks associated with Asklepios. In a list of Phoenician deities contained in a 677 B.C.E. treaty between the king of Assyria and the king of Tyre he was the chief god, Baal-Shamen, the "lord of heaven," the El, the storm god, Baal-Safon of the Holy Mountain, Zeus of Phoenicia.

    Hence, El the High God in Canaan the God of Melchizedek is seen in various forms throughout the Ancient Near East.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I don’t have to prove anything, my extended analogy, which was what we were discussing proved it already that Yahweh was/is God and above all other gods.
    Yahweh and Baal are amalgamated, the issue of Yahweh being over other deities has no relevance to Yahweh and Baal being amalgamated.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    A verse from the Orthodox Jewish Bible showing the word ‘tevah’ and ark beside it in brackets (ark) shows that there are others that disagree with the Strong’s Concordance meaning, those OTHERS being Jewish people. Here’s a few more:


    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/2...ew-word-tevah/

    Ark (a box, chest)
    Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.
    8392. tevah
    Strong’s Concordance
    tebah: a box, chest
    Original Word: תֵּבָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: tevah
    Phonetic Spelling: (teh-vah’)
    Short Definition: ark
    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/c...hebrew/page/2/
    Hebrew Word – Tevah – Ark

    Ark (a box, chest) Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 8392. tevah Strong’s Concordance tebah: a box, chest Original Word: תֵּבָה Part of Speech:

    https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...lp-of-a-tevah/

    The Hebrew word used to describe that ark is tevah. And the word tevah is used in only one other story in the entire Torah. Significantly, the exact same word is used in this week’s Torah portion, Shemot, to describe the basket in which baby Moses is placed, when his mother, in an effort to spare his life, sends him down the Nile.
    Strong's concordance indicates:
    https://bibliaparalela.com/hebrew/8429.htm
    tevah: to be startled or alarmed

    Noah’s Ark in Genesis 6:14-16

    Make yourself an ark (tēvāh) of gopher wood [came the instruction]; make rooms (qinnīm) in the ark, and cover it (kāpar) inside and out with pitch (kopher). This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit
    above; and put the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks.

    Such was the order to Noah, facing in his turn the awful task of saving the world more or less single-handedly with the help of a custom-order boat. This is the breakdown of the specs:
    Ark: tēvāh (unknown word for rectangular boat)
    Material: gopher-wood (unknown species)
    Rooms: qinnīm (cells; the basic word means ‘bird’s nest’)
    Waterproofing: pitch or bitumen (kopher), smeared on (kāphar), inside and out
    Length: 300 cubits (ammah) = 450 ft = 137.2 m
    Width: 50 cubits = 75 ft = 22.8 m
    Height: 30 cubits = 45 ft = 13.7 m
    Roof: 1 cubit high(?)
    Door: 1
    Decks: 3

    Compare the sparser data for Moses’ ‘arklet’ in Exodus 2:2–6:
    Ark: tēvāh (unknown word for rectangular boat)
    Material: gomeh, bulrushes; rush/reed/papyrus; wicker
    Waterproofing: hamār, slime; bitumen/asphalt; bitumen; zefeth, pitch.

    The biblical word tēvāh, which is used for the arks of Noah and Moses, occurs nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible. The flood and baby episodes are thus deliberately associated and linked in Hebrew just as the Atrahasis and Sargon Arks are linked associatively in Babylonia.

    Now for something extraordinary: no one knows what language tēvāh is or what it means. The word for the wood, gopher, is likewise used nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible and no one knows what language or what kind of wood it is. This is a peculiar state of affairs for one of the most famous and influential paragraphs in all of the world’s writing! The associated words kopher, ‘bitumen’, and kāphar, ‘to smear on’, are also to be found nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible, but, significantly, they came from Babylonia with the narrative itself, deriving from Akkadian kupru, ‘bitumen’, and kapāru, ‘to smear on’. In view of this it is logical to expect that tēvāh and gopher are similarly loanwords from Babylonian Akkadian into Hebrew, but there has been no convincing candidate for either word. Suggestions have been made for gopher-wood,
    but the identification, or the non-Hebrew word that lies behind it, remains open.

    Ideas have also been put forward over the centuries concerning the word tēvāh, some linking it – because Moses was in Egypt – with the ancient Egyptian word thebet, meaning ‘box’ or ‘coffin’, but these have ended nowhere. Christianity then would have no choice but to assert a most likely explanation is that tēvāh, like other ark words, reflects a Babylonian word.

    However, a cuneiform tablet (BM 32873: 2) dealing with boats from around 500 BC, now in the British Museum, mentions a kind of boat called a ṭubbû which is found at a river crossing, apparently as part of a vessel swap among boatmen: … a boat (eleppu) which is six cubits wide at the beam, a ṭubbû which is at the crossing, and a boat (eleppu) five and a half (cubits) wide at the beam which is at the bridge, they exchanged for (?) one boat which is five cubits wide at the beam.

    The consonants t (in tēvāh) and ṭ (in ṭubbû) are distinct from one another, so it is impossible that ṭubbû, a masculine noun of unknown etymology, and tēvāh, a feminine noun of unknown etymology, represent the same word etymologically.

    The Judaeans encountered the Akkadian boat word ṭubbû used for the Ark
    in the story along with the other Akkadian ark words and Hebraised it as tēvāh. In this case the original consonants are less important; the idea was to render the foreign word, for it was only to be used twice in the whole Bible, once for Noah, once for Moses. The relationship between the words is thus that they are neither cognate nor loaned: the Babylonian was given a Hebrew ‘shape’. It is much the same as the way in which Nebuchadnezzar’s eunuch Nabu-sharrussu-ukin became Nebusarsekim
    in the Book of Jeremiah. This would perforce mean that the word ṭubbû
    must have occurred in place of eleppu, ‘boat’, for Utnapishti’s Ark, in some firstmillennium BC Babylonian source for the Flood Story that we do not have now.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Yes really, I addressed your ‘opinion’ which was proclaimed at the end of your post, which was nothing more than a lengthy self gratifying diatribe of “weird insults” throughout.
    It isn't necessarily "my opinion", but you really give no clarification.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Shamash:The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.

    You stated it as FACT – “and that John’s vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy”.

    Here's another word to look up “duplicitous”.
    Yes, he would be disgusted with it and whether he was ‘free’ on the island or tied up and bound in fetters, or booked in at the local Holiday Inn, is irrelevant and is of no great importance and that’s why it is not found in the Bible.
    Well, technically it is true, the Apostles did not engage in ‘pagan’ prayer, ‘pagan’ worship, ‘pagan’ sorcery, etc., etc., etc., just didn’t happen, you can search the New Testament and you will clearly see that.
    Divination is no different than supposed prophecy interceded by the divine. Hence, any form of "mancy" applies to supposed prophecy. So Biblical prophecy is no more than mere divination, in fact prophecy and divination as synonym's hence they are synonymous with each other.

    If the New Testament characters conducted any prophecy, prayer, etc... all this aligns in the realm of occultism.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I understand, and I am truly sorry to see that.
    I assume this in reference to my personal experience is not the same as yours, so I'm not sure why you are sad to see that. Next time I have to go to the bathroom I'll ask you to come over and join me so we can have the same experience.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I’d like to add here, that it is not my job to convert you or anyone else, that’s His job. However, when it comes to the Bible, I will address anyone, no matter who they are or whomever they represent, when they attempt to denigrate it by the way they use it to further their own agenda. (there are so called Christian organisations that do this also)
    Many have tried to alter His Truth, whether by the efforts of faulty human translations of words or faulty human attempts of interpretation, for without His Spirit, the Bible remains a dead book of interesting stories, with mythological figures and supposed errors throughout that can be picked apart and used by whoever comes along. For some, they adulterate it by mixing in their own false teachings in order to support their religion, for others it is an attempt to make it appear completely untrustworthy in order to bolster a totally different belief system. But that does not alter His Truth, it is only verification that they do not know His Truth.
    It is only with His Spirit, leading and guiding, that the Bible becomes His living Word (as opposed to being “a dead book”)

    Hebrews 4:12
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    And that is evidenced by those 'conversions' of those Jewish and Muslim people, they are then able to understand.
    The attempted converstion from a Christian to a non Christian usually comes in the form of discussion, debate, etc which is an aim to lead someone to Christianity, whether or not you think the deity you believe in actually convicts if you will someone to convert is only a mere reflection of your discussion, but remains moot for any other purpose.

    The Israelite's have strong influence on what you refer to as "His truth", in fact so does the Ancient Near East, from the beginnings in Polytheism to the Israelite's later monotheistic conversion.

    The reality is that Christianity is a religion that looks back to its Jewish roots but in so doing expands the possibility of redemption by extending the "kingdom" and the "promised land" beyond the Hebrew race or Jewish religion to the world at large. To the extent that the religion has insisted over the centuries that its way is the only way and/or that its myths are literally true, it has developed a militancy and a tendency toward fundamentalism that have often placed it at odds with the actual teachings of its de facto founder by instigating or supporting violence, abuse, and repression. Central to the Canaanite pantheon in its many local versions is a movement toward an understanding of deity that includes a high god associated with weather and storms who is somewhat distant from everyday life, a fertility god who is more present, and a feminine form of that deity.

    The Hebrews developed a god who reigned alone as at once a weather-storm deity, a god of judgment, and a war god, but who contained within himself aspects of the old deities who concerned themselves with fertility and life on earth. For the Christians that god became a somewhat distant figure whose nevertheless more loving purpose was to be accomplished by Jesus, a figure eventually seen as both human hero and an aspect of God. Christians, perhaps inadvertently, would over the centuries restore something of the feminine to the godhead through the esoteric understanding of Sophia, or divine wisdom—even for some the Holy Spirit aspect of God—and especially through the person of the Virgin Mary.




    Leave a comment:


  • Shamash
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    What is obvious is that God is above and over all other gods, including Baal.
    The very fact that Yahweh and Baal are described similiarily as they both come from the Canaanite's is a pretty good indicator of storm attributes given to Yahweh.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Please go on and elaborate a bit more on this and why you think this is?
    Yahweh reveals himself technically after Abram leaves Canaan. This happens after Melchezedik brings out the wine & bread, which is traditionally and seen later as a Baal-Peor ritual, the text goes on to conclude that additionally Melchezedik is priest of the Most High God, and since Melchezedik is a Canaanite priest this will be El in Canaan.

    A Semitic word for "god" is el or //(thus Elohim and al-ilah or Allah}.
    In second-millennium B.C.E. god lists found at Ugarit there are several
    Els or versions of El. There is the El of the holy mountain Sapan
    (Tsafon); the Ilib (Elib), or "father god," who contains the spirits of
    the dead; and the El who, like so many Near Eastern high gods, is associated with the bull and is perhaps the creator. The
    Greeks thought of El as Kronos, the father of Zeus. Dagan (Dagon) is another vehicle for the high-god concept, perhaps an early personification of El. He has fertility aspects, as his name seems to mean "grain." Dagan existed at Ebla as early as the third millennium B.C.E. and was assimilated as the high god of the Philistines in the late second millennium.

    It can be argued that the most important expression of the high god
    in Canaan, however, was Baal in his many forms. But usually Baal took
    second position to a father, sometimes El, sometimes Dagan. Baal was at once a weather-storm god of great power and a dying god and fertilizer
    of the earth. For the Philistines he was Baalzebub, a healer, whom the Greeks associated with Asklepios. In a list of Phoenician deities contained in a 677 B.C.E. treaty between the king of Assyria and the king of Tyre he was the chief god, Baal-Shamen, the "lord of heaven," the El, the storm god, Baal-Safon of the Holy Mountain, Zeus of Phoenicia.

    Hence, El the High God in Canaan the God of Melchezedik is seen in various forms throuhghout the Ancient Near East.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I don’t have to prove anything, my extended analogy, which was what we were discussing proved it already that Yahweh was/is God and above all other gods.
    Yahweh and Baal are amalgamated, the issue of Yahweh being over other deities has no relevance to Yahweh and Baal being amalgamated.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    A verse from the Orthodox Jewish Bible showing the word ‘tevah’ and ark beside it in brackets (ark) shows that there are others that disagree with the Strong’s Concordance meaning, those OTHERS being Jewish people. Here’s a few more:


    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/2...ew-word-tevah/

    Ark (a box, chest)
    Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.
    8392. tevah
    Strong’s Concordance
    tebah: a box, chest
    Original Word: תֵּבָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: tevah
    Phonetic Spelling: (teh-vah’)
    Short Definition: ark
    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/c...hebrew/page/2/
    Hebrew Word – Tevah – Ark

    Ark (a box, chest) Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 8392. tevah Strong’s Concordance tebah: a box, chest Original Word: תֵּבָה Part of Speech:

    https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...lp-of-a-tevah/

    The Hebrew word used to describe that ark is tevah. And the word tevah is used in only one other story in the entire Torah. Significantly, the exact same word is used in this week’s Torah portion, Shemot, to describe the basket in which baby Moses is placed, when his mother, in an effort to spare his life, sends him down the Nile.
    Strong's concordance indicates:
    https://bibliaparalela.com/hebrew/8429.htm
    tevah: to be startled or alarmed

    Noah’s Ark in Genesis 6:14-16

    Make yourself an ark (tēvāh) of gopher wood [came the instruction]; make rooms (qinnīm) in the ark, and cover it (kāpar) inside and out with pitch (kopher). This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit
    above; and put the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks.

    Such was the order to Noah, facing in his turn the awful task of saving the world more or less single-handedly with the help of a custom-order boat. This is the breakdown of the specs:
    Ark: tēvāh (unknown word for rectangular boat)
    Material: gopher-wood (unknown species)
    Rooms: qinnīm (cells; the basic word means ‘bird’s nest’)
    Waterproofing: pitch or bitumen (kopher), smeared on (kāphar), inside and out
    Length: 300 cubits (ammah) = 450 ft = 137.2 m
    Width: 50 cubits = 75 ft = 22.8 m
    Height: 30 cubits = 45 ft = 13.7 m
    Roof: 1 cubit high(?)
    Door: 1
    Decks: 3

    Compare the sparser data for Moses’ ‘arklet’ in Exodus 2:2–6:
    Ark: tēvāh (unknown word for rectangular boat)
    Material: gomeh, bulrushes; rush/reed/papyrus; wicker
    Waterproofing: hamār, slime; bitumen/asphalt; bitumen; zefeth, pitch.

    The biblical word tēvāh, which is used for the arks of Noah and Moses, occurs nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible. The flood and baby episodes are thus deliberately associated and linked in Hebrew just as the Atrahasis and Sargon Arks are linked associatively in Babylonia.

    Now for something extraordinary: no one knows what language tēvāh is or what it means. The word for the wood, gopher, is likewise used nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible and no one knows what language or what kind of wood it is. This is a peculiar state of affairs for one of the most famous and influential paragraphs in all of the world’s writing! The associated words kopher, ‘bitumen’, and kāphar, ‘to smear on’, are also to be found nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible, but, significantly, they came from Babylonia with the narrative itself, deriving from Akkadian kupru, ‘bitumen’, and kapāru, ‘to smear on’. In view of this it is logical to expect that tēvāh and gopher are similarly loanwords from Babylonian Akkadian into Hebrew, but there has been no convincing candidate for either word. Suggestions have been made for gopher-wood,
    but the identification, or the non-Hebrew word that lies behind it, remains open.

    Ideas have also been put forward over the centuries concerning the word tēvāh, some linking it – because Moses was in Egypt – with the ancient Egyptian word thebet, meaning ‘box’ or ‘coffin’, but these have ended nowhere. Christianity then would have no choice but to assert a most likely explanation is that tēvāh, like other ark words, reflects a Babylonian word.

    However, a cuneiform tablet (BM 32873: 2) dealing with boats from around 500 BC, now in the British Museum, mentions a kind of boat called a ṭubbû which is found at a river crossing, apparently as part of a vessel swap among boatmen: … a boat (eleppu) which is six cubits wide at the beam, a ṭubbû which is at the crossing, and a boat (eleppu) five and a half (cubits) wide at the beam which is at the bridge, they exchanged for (?) one boat which is five cubits wide at the beam.

    The consonants t (in tēvāh) and ṭ (in ṭubbû) are distinct from one another, so it is impossible that ṭubbû, a masculine noun of unknown etymology, and tēvāh, a feminine noun of unknown etymology, represent the same word etymologically.

    The Judaeans encountered the Akkadian boat word ṭubbû used for the Ark
    in the story along with the other Akkadian ark words and Hebraised it as tēvāh. In this case the original consonants are less important; the idea was to render the foreign word, for it was only to be used twice in the whole Bible, once for Noah, once for Moses. The relationship between the words is thus that they are neither cognate nor loaned: the Babylonian was given a Hebrew ‘shape’. It is much the same as the way in which Nebuchadnezzar’s eunuch Nabu-sharrussu-ukin became Nebusarsekim
    in the Book of Jeremiah. This would perforce mean that the word ṭubbû
    must have occurred in place of eleppu, ‘boat’, for Utnapishti’s Ark, in some firstmillennium BC Babylonian source for the Flood Story that we do not have now.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Yes really, I addressed your ‘opinion’ which was proclaimed at the end of your post, which was nothing more than a lengthy self gratifying diatribe of “weird insults” throughout.
    It isn't necessarily "my opinion", but you really give no clarification.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Shamash:The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.

    You stated it as FACT – “and that John’s vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy”.

    Here's another word to look up “duplicitous”.
    Yes, he would be disgusted with it and whether he was ‘free’ on the island or tied up and bound in fetters, or booked in at the local Holiday Inn, is irrelevant and is of no great importance and that’s why it is not found in the Bible.
    Well, technically it is true, the Apostles did not engage in ‘pagan’ prayer, ‘pagan’ worship, ‘pagan’ sorcery, etc., etc., etc., just didn’t happen, you can search the New Testament and you will clearly see that.
    Divination is no different than supposed prophecy interceded by the divine. Hence, any form of "mancy" applies to supposed prophecy. So Biblical prophecy is no more than mere divination, in fact prophecy and divination as synonym's hence they are synonymous with each other.

    If the New Testament characters conducted any prophecy, prayer, etc... all this aligns in the realm of occultism.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I understand, and I am truly sorry to see that.
    I assume this in reference to my personal experience is not the same as yours, so I'm not sure why you are sad to see that. Next time I have to go to the bathroom I'll ask you to come over and join me so we can have the same experience.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I’d like to add here, that it is not my job to convert you or anyone else, that’s His job. However, when it comes to the Bible, I will address anyone, no matter who they are or whomever they represent, when they attempt to denigrate it by the way they use it to further their own agenda. (there are so called Christian organisations that do this also)
    Many have tried to alter His Truth, whether by the efforts of faulty human translations of words or faulty human attempts of interpretation, for without His Spirit, the Bible remains a dead book of interesting stories, with mythological figures and supposed errors throughout that can be picked apart and used by whoever comes along. For some, they adulterate it by mixing in their own false teachings in order to support their religion, for others it is an attempt to make it appear completely untrustworthy in order to bolster a totally different belief system. But that does not alter His Truth, it is only verification that they do not know His Truth.
    It is only with His Spirit, leading and guiding, that the Bible becomes His living Word (as opposed to being “a dead book”)

    Hebrews 4:12
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    And that is evidenced by those 'conversions' of those Jewish and Muslim people, they are then able to understand.
    The attempted converstion from a Christian to a non Christian usually comes in the form of discussion, debate, etc which is an aim to lead someone to Christianity, whether or not you think the deity you believe in actually convicts if you will someone to convert is only a mere reflection of your discussion, but remains moot for any other purpose.

    The Israelite's have strong influence on what you refer to as "His truth", in fact so does the Ancient Near East, from the beginnings in Polytheism to the Israelite's later monotheistic conversion.

    The reality is that Christianity is a religion that looks back to its Jewish roots but in so doing expands the possibility of redemption by extending the "kingdom" and the "promised land" beyond the Hebrew race or Jewish religion to the world at large. To the extent that the religion has insisted over the centuries that its way is the only way and/or that its myths are literally true, it has developed a militancy and a tendency toward fundamentalism that have often placed it at odds with the actual teachings of its de facto founder by instigating or supporting violence, abuse, and repression. Central to the Canaanite pantheon in its many local versions is a movement toward an understanding of deity that includes a high god associated with weather and storms who is somewhat distant from everyday life, a fertility god who is more present, and a feminine form of that deity.

    The Hebrews developed a god who reigned alone as at once a weather-storm deity, a god of judgment, and a war god, but who contained within himself aspects of the old deities who concerned themselves with fertility and life on earth. For the Christians that god became a somewhat distant figure whose nevertheless more loving purpose was to be accomplished by Jesus, a figure eventually seen as both human hero and an aspect of God. Christians, perhaps inadvertently, would over the centuries restore something of the feminine to the godhead through the esoteric understanding of Sophia, or divine wisdom—even for some the Holy Spirit aspect of God—and especially through the person of the Virgin Mary.




    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post

    Not really.
    Yes really.

    Baal is seen as having four elements and is seen as a storm God this include the march of the divine warrior, the convulsing of nature as the divine warrior manifests his power, the return of the divine warrior to his holy mountain to assume divine kingship, and the utterance of the divine warrior’s “voice” (i.e., thunder) from his palace, providing rains that fertilize the earth.

    While Yahweh is seen in Biblical material as deriding other deities reserves power over the storm for Yahweh (Jer. 10:11-16; 14:22; Amos 4:7; 5:8; 9:6). Biblical descriptions of Yahweh as storm-god (1 Sam. 12:18; Psalm 29; Job 38:25-27, 34-38) and divine warrior (Pss. 50:1-3; 97:1-6; 98:1-2; 104:1-4; Deut. 33:2; Judges 4-5; Job 26:11-13; Isa. 42:10-15, etc.) exhibit this underlying unity and pattern explicitly in Psalm 18 (= 2 Sam. 22):6-19, 68:7-10, and 86:9-19.337 Psalm 29, 1 Kings 19, and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 dramatize the meteorological progression underlying the imagery of Yahweh as warrior. All three passages presuppose the image of the storm moving eastward from the Mediterranean Sea to the coast. In 1 Kings 19 and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 this force is portrayed with human imagery. The procession of the divine warrior is accompanied by a contingent of lesser divine beings (Deut. 32:34; 33:2; Hab. 3:5; KTU 1.5 V 6-9; cf. Judg. 5:20). The Ugaritic antecedent to Resheph in Yahweh’s entourage in Habakkuk 3:5 is KTU 1. 82.1-3, which perhaps includes Resheph as a warrior with Baal against tnn, related to biblical tannînîm.

    Both are storm Gods, this is obvious.
    What is obvious is that God is above and over all other gods, including Baal.

    Conveniently Yahweh doesn't reveal himself until after Abram leaves Canaan.
    Please go on and elaborate a bit more on this and why you think this is?

    You would have to prove that cross pollination didn't occur and most assuredly it did.
    I don’t have to prove anything, my extended analogy, which was what we were discussing proved it already that Yahweh was/is God and above all other gods.

    I saw them and in Strong's Concordance, Tevah means to be startled or alarmed, go see this yourself. You only post the verse, but I've already posted the verse, go see the meaning in Strong's Concordance.

    All you did was copy and paste the verse, I could have done that, go see the meaning of the word in Strong's Concordance, that is where you find Hebrew and Greek translatability in biblical transliterations.
    A verse from the Orthodox Jewish Bible showing the word ‘tevah’ and ark beside it in brackets (ark) shows that there are others that disagree with the Strong’s Concordance meaning, those OTHERS being Jewish people. Here’s a few more:


    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/2...ew-word-tevah/

    Ark (a box, chest)
    Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.
    8392. tevah
    Strong’s Concordance
    tebah: a box, chest
    Original Word: תֵּבָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: tevah
    Phonetic Spelling: (teh-vah’)
    Short Definition: ark
    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/c...hebrew/page/2/
    Hebrew Word – Tevah – Ark

    Ark (a box, chest) Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 8392. tevah Strong’s Concordance tebah: a box, chest Original Word: תֵּבָה Part of Speech:

    https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...lp-of-a-tevah/

    The Hebrew word used to describe that ark is tevah. And the word tevah is used in only one other story in the entire Torah. Significantly, the exact same word is used in this week’s Torah portion, Shemot, to describe the basket in which baby Moses is placed, when his mother, in an effort to spare his life, sends him down the Nile.

    Not really, you just left a one liner and didn't address anything.
    Yes really, I addressed your ‘opinion’ which was proclaimed at the end of your post, which was nothing more than a lengthy self gratifying diatribe of “weird insults” throughout.

    John pens about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, which essentially indicates hippomancy or divination by horses.
    Shamash:The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.

    You stated it as FACT – “and that John’s vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy”.

    Here's another word to look up “duplicitous”.

    If the Island had a hippodrome John would have become disgusted with it. After all he is pardoned by the governor of Patmos, so it would make sense he was "free" on the Island.
    Yes, he would be disgusted with it and whether he was ‘free’ on the island or tied up and bound in fetters, or booked in at the local Holiday Inn, is irrelevant and is of no great importance and that’s why it is not found in the Bible.

    That is not technically true, in the New Testament you see allusions to many different pagan practices, the "pagans" if you will in Rome for example did believe in the power of prayer and not the Jesus character of the bible. Prayer dates back to even Babylonian times, this is traditionally a pagan practice.
    Well, technically it is true, the Apostles did not engage in ‘pagan’ prayer, ‘pagan’ worship, ‘pagan’ sorcery, etc., etc., etc., just didn’t happen, you can search the New Testament and you will clearly see that.

    No, I'm saying that your personal experience is not my personal experience.
    I understand, and I am truly sorry to see that. I’d like to add here, that it is not my job to convert you or anyone else, that’s His job. However, when it comes to the Bible, I will address anyone, no matter who they are or whomever they represent, when they attempt to denigrate it by the way they use it to further their own agenda. (there are so called Christian organisations that do this also)
    Many have tried to alter His Truth, whether by the efforts of faulty human translations of words or faulty human attempts of interpretation, for without His Spirit, the Bible remains a dead book of interesting stories, with mythological figures and supposed errors throughout that can be picked apart and used by whoever comes along. For some, they adulterate it by mixing in their own false teachings in order to support their religion, for others it is an attempt to make it appear completely untrustworthy in order to bolster a totally different belief system. But that does not alter His Truth, it is only verification that they do not know His Truth.
    It is only with His Spirit, leading and guiding, that the Bible becomes His living Word (as opposed to being “a dead book”)

    Hebrews 4:12
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    And that is evidenced by those 'conversions' of those Jewish and Muslim people, they are then able to understand.
    Last edited by Bonlee; 03-07-19, 04:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post

    Not really.
    Yes really.

    Baal is seen as having four elements and is seen as a storm God this include the march of the divine warrior, the convulsing of nature as the divine warrior manifests his power, the return of the divine warrior to his holy mountain to assume divine kingship, and the utterance of the divine warrior’s “voice” (i.e., thunder) from his palace, providing rains that fertilize the earth.

    While Yahweh is seen in Biblical material as deriding other deities reserves power over the storm for Yahweh (Jer. 10:11-16; 14:22; Amos 4:7; 5:8; 9:6). Biblical descriptions of Yahweh as storm-god (1 Sam. 12:18; Psalm 29; Job 38:25-27, 34-38) and divine warrior (Pss. 50:1-3; 97:1-6; 98:1-2; 104:1-4; Deut. 33:2; Judges 4-5; Job 26:11-13; Isa. 42:10-15, etc.) exhibit this underlying unity and pattern explicitly in Psalm 18 (= 2 Sam. 22):6-19, 68:7-10, and 86:9-19.337 Psalm 29, 1 Kings 19, and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 dramatize the meteorological progression underlying the imagery of Yahweh as warrior. All three passages presuppose the image of the storm moving eastward from the Mediterranean Sea to the coast. In 1 Kings 19 and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 this force is portrayed with human imagery. The procession of the divine warrior is accompanied by a contingent of lesser divine beings (Deut. 32:34; 33:2; Hab. 3:5; KTU 1.5 V 6-9; cf. Judg. 5:20). The Ugaritic antecedent to Resheph in Yahweh’s entourage in Habakkuk 3:5 is KTU 1. 82.1-3, which perhaps includes Resheph as a warrior with Baal against tnn, related to biblical tannînîm.

    Both are storm Gods, this is obvious.
    What is obvious from those scriptures is that God is above and over all other gods, including Baal.

    Conveniently Yahweh doesn't reveal himself until after Abram leaves Canaan.
    Please go on and elaborate a bit more on this and why you think this?

    You would have to prove that cross pollination didn't occur and most assuredly it did.
    I don’t have to prove anything, my extended analogy, which was what we were discussing proved it already that Yahweh was/is God and above all other gods.

    I saw them and in Strong's Concordance, Tevah means to be startled or alarmed, go see this yourself. You only post the verse, but I've already posted the verse, go see the meaning in Strong's Concordance.

    All you did was copy and paste the verse, I could have done that, go see the meaning of the word in Strong's Concordance, that is where you find Hebrew and Greek translatability in biblical transliterations.
    A verse from the Orthodox Jewish Bible showing the word ‘tevah’ and ark beside it in brackets (ark) shows that there are others that disagree with the Strong’s Concordance meaning, those OTHERS being Jewish people. Here’s a few more:


    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/2...ew-word-tevah/

    Ark (a box, chest)
    Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.
    8392. tevah
    Strong’s Concordance
    tebah: a box, chest
    Original Word: תֵּבָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: tevah
    Phonetic Spelling: (teh-vah’)
    Short Definition: ark
    http://www.projecttorahportion.com/c...hebrew/page/2/
    Hebrew Word – Tevah – Ark

    Ark (a box, chest) Genesis 6:14 Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 8392. tevah Strong’s Concordance tebah: a box, chest Original Word: תֵּבָה Part of Speech:

    https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrae...lp-of-a-tevah/

    The Hebrew word used to describe that ark is tevah. And the word tevah is used in only one other story in the entire Torah. Significantly, the exact same word is used in this week’s Torah portion, Shemot, to describe the basket in which baby Moses is placed, when his mother, in an effort to spare his life, sends him down the Nile.

    Shamash: So then you have read from Genesis to Revelations, cool. Then why earlier did you say you had to delve deeper into the "scripture"? Yes, the Israelite's are sub structed as Polytheists, and go back and forth. Those nitwit Babylonian's are the ones who influence the Israelite's into Monotheism. I say nitwit to the Babylonian's because they couldn't figure out which God to worship (between Tiamat and Marduk), and they also foolishly adopt Baal or Bel. The Israelite's were also foolish because after the Babylonian Exile (6th century bce), and especially from the 3rd century bce on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal rather than merely local religion, the more common noun Elohim, meaning “God,” tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel’s God over all others, bearing in mind that El was very much so a Canaanite deity. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai (“My Lord”), which was translated as Kyrios (“Lord”) in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures. So all they did was use the Gods from Canaan and for some reason it became "divine", utter foolishness.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Interesting that you view the response that I gave as a "weird insult", when I only gave it with as much honesty and directness as you gave your own opinion in the post I was responding too.


    Not really, you just left a one liner and didn't address anything.
    Yes really, I addressed your ‘opinion’ which was proclaimed at the end of your post, which was nothing more than a lengthy self gratifying diatribe of “weird insults” throughout.

    John pens about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, which essentially indicates hippomancy or divination by horses.
    Shamash:The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.

    You stated it as FACT – “and that John’s vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy”.

    Here's another word for you to look up “duplicitous”.

    If the Island had a hippodrome John would have become disgusted with it. After all he is pardoned by the governor of Patmos, so it would make sense he was "free" on the Island.
    Yes, he would be disgusted with it and whether he was ‘free’ on the island or tied up and bound in fetters, or booked in at the local Holiday Inn, is irrelevant and is of no great importance and that’s why it is not found in the Bible.

    That is not technically true, in the New Testament you see allusions to many different pagan practices, the "pagans" if you will in Rome for example did believe in the power of prayer and not the Jesus character of the bible. Prayer dates back to even Babylonian times, this is traditionally a pagan practice.
    Well, technically it is true, the Apostles did not engage in ‘pagan’ prayer, ‘pagan’ worship, ‘pagan’ sorcery, etc., etc., etc., just didn’t happen, you can search the New Testament and you will clearly see that.

    Cuneiform is the writing system that existed long before anything was written on any kind of parchment, therefore Cuneiform predates parchment writing. That being said, the Israelite's even though the begin as polytheistic, and since they dwelled in ancient Iraq would not have been blind to the epics of the first flood epic of Ziusudra and later we see the epic of Noah appear.
    ....obviously you didn't get the picture.......

    No, I'm saying that your personal experience is not my personal experience.
    I understand, and I am truly sorry to see that. I’d like to add here, that it is not my job to convert you or anyone else, that’s His job. However, when it comes to the Bible, I will address anyone, no matter who they are or whomever they represent, when they attempt to denigrate it by the way they use it to further their own agenda. (there are apostate Christian organisations that do this also.)
    Many have tried to alter His Truth, by the efforts of faulty human translations of words or faulty human attempts of interpretation, but without His Spirit, the Bible remains a dead book of interesting stories, with mythological figures and supposed errors throughout that can be picked apart and used by whoever comes along. For some, they adulterate it by mixing in their own false teachings in order to support their apostate religion, for others it is an attempt to make it appear completely untrustworthy in order to bolster a totally different belief system. But those attempts do no alter His Truth, it only verifies that they do not know Him and in desperation to validate their own agendas, they must attempt to destroy His Truth.

    It is only with His Spirit, leading and guiding, that the Bible becomes His living Word (as opposed to being “a dead book”)

    Hebrews 4:12

    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.






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  • Shamash
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Yes, as I stated, a process that showed the similarity and ultimately the dissimilarity which is applicable to your Baal/Yahweh claim.
    Not really.

    Baal is seen as having four elements and is seen as a storm God this include the march of the divine warrior, the convulsing of nature as the divine warrior manifests his power, the return of the divine warrior to his holy mountain to assume divine kingship, and the utterance of the divine warrior’s “voice” (i.e., thunder) from his palace, providing rains that fertilize the earth.

    While Yahweh is seen in Biblical material as deriding other deities reserves power over the storm for Yahweh (Jer. 10:11-16; 14:22; Amos 4:7; 5:8; 9:6). Biblical descriptions of Yahweh as storm-god (1 Sam. 12:18; Psalm 29; Job 38:25-27, 34-38) and divine warrior (Pss. 50:1-3; 97:1-6; 98:1-2; 104:1-4; Deut. 33:2; Judges 4-5; Job 26:11-13; Isa. 42:10-15, etc.) exhibit this underlying unity and pattern explicitly in Psalm 18 (= 2 Sam. 22):6-19, 68:7-10, and 86:9-19.337 Psalm 29, 1 Kings 19, and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 dramatize the meteorological progression underlying the imagery of Yahweh as warrior. All three passages presuppose the image of the storm moving eastward from the Mediterranean Sea to the coast. In 1 Kings 19 and 2 Esdras 13:1-4 this force is portrayed with human imagery. The procession of the divine warrior is accompanied by a contingent of lesser divine beings (Deut. 32:34; 33:2; Hab. 3:5; KTU 1.5 V 6-9; cf. Judg. 5:20). The Ugaritic antecedent to Resheph in Yahweh’s entourage in Habakkuk 3:5 is KTU 1. 82.1-3, which perhaps includes Resheph as a warrior with Baal against tnn, related to biblical tannînîm.

    Both are storm Gods, this is obvious. Conveniently Yahweh doesn't reveal himself until after Abram leaves Canaan.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I have taken part in this discussion, therefore the commonality concerning this discussion includes what I contribute, which is that Yahweh, was/is God, above all the other ‘gods’.
    You would have to prove that cross pollination didn't occur and most assuredly it did.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I’'ve twice posted other references that show different, and which you continue to ignore.
    Orthodox Jewish Bible uses Ark and side references Tevah in brackets, and Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon for the different Christian Bible translations references 'Tevah' also for 'ark'.
    I saw them and in Strong's Concordance, Tevah means to be startled or alarmed, go see this yourself. You only post the verse, but I've already posted the verse, go see the meaning in Strong's Concordance.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Sorry Shamash, but that you were unable to understand the usage of the word ‘'data'’ and stated that I used the word '‘intimate’' incorrectly, lessens the credibility of your etymology skills.
    All you did was copy and paste the verse, I could have done that, go see the meaning of the word in Strong's Concordance, that is where you find Hebrew and Greek translatability in biblical transliterations.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Interesting that you view the response that I gave as a "weird insult", when I only gave it with as much honesty and directness as you gave your own opinion in the post I was responding too.
    Not really, you just left a one liner and didn't address anything.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Let me break this down for you Shamash, so that you can understand a bit better – you stated, “The Bible won’t tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos" – why would you expect the Bible to tell you that when it is totally irrelevant to the message of the Revelation of Christ to John? Whether there were 20 pagan temples and 25 hippodromes, has nothing to do with what Revelations is about. That you make the unsubstantiated claim, as if, it were fact, that John’s vision included hippomancy in an attempt to link it to the fact that there were pagan temples that perhaps practiced hippomancy, remains just that, an unsubstantiated claim. The other Apostles and John were surrounded by paganism and cults, throughout their ministries and addressed them head on, they didn’t engage in them. Also, that John is pardoned is totally irrelevant to the book of Revelation and its message, so it is no big deal that the Bible doesn’t mention it, what IS important is the revelation itself.

    You go on: The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that a Cuneiform explains Enki dividing the languages and was passed into the tower of Babel epic. The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that the Babylonian's built Ziggurats and not Towers.

    Does it help you if I put it this way ' The Cuneiform won’t tell you that God is divine, supreme and above Enki and any other little ‘gods’…..do you get the picture yet???



    Of course you don't know who these people are - perhaps you should use your research skills to expand your knowledge and thus save yourself the embarrassment of reacting with such hubristic certainty on things you are in ignorance of.
    John pens about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse, which essentially indicates hippomancy or divination by horses. If the Island had a hippodrome John would have become disgusted with it. After all he is pardoned by the governor of Patmos, so it would make sense he was "free" on the Island.

    That is not technically true, in the New Testament you see allusions to many different pagan practices, the "pagans" if you will in Rome for example did believe in the power of prayer and not the Jesus character of the bible. Prayer dates back to even Babylonian times, this is traditionally a pagan practice.

    Cuneiform is the writing system that existed long before anything was written on any kind of parchment, therefore Cuneiform predates parchment writing. That being said, the Israelite's even though the begin as polytheistic, and since they dwelled in ancient Iraq would not have been blind to the epics of the first flood epic of Ziusudra and later we see the epic of Noah appear.

    No, I'm saying that your personal experience is not my personal experience.


    Leave a comment:


  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post
    ok?
    You seemed confused Shamash.

    You didn't expand on anything by expanding on my analogy. All you did was take that the two who purchased the cars either got a warranty or not, that doesn't say much at all, it's still part of the process.
    Yes, as I stated, a process that showed the similarity and ultimately the dissimilarity which is applicable to your Baal/Yahweh claim.

    Commonality concerning this discussion, as far as Baal being Yahweh that's just cross pollination between the Ancient Israelite's and the Canaanite's
    I have taken part in this discussion, therefore the commonality concerning this discussion includes what I contribute, which is that Yahweh, was/is God, above all the other ‘gods’.


    https://bibliaparalela.com/hebrew/8429.htm

    "Come thou and all thy bais into the tevah (ark)" in Strong's Concordance which is the biblical reference for Hebrew terminology the term Tevah mean to be startled or alarmed
    I’'ve twice posted other references that show different, and which you continue to ignore.
    Orthodox Jewish Bible uses Ark and side references Tevah in brackets, and Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon for the different Christian Bible translations references 'Tevah' also for 'ark'.

    Sorry Shamash, but that you were unable to understand the usage of the word ‘'data'’ and stated that I used the word '‘intimate’' incorrectly, lessens the credibility of your etymology skills.


    Yeah you don't have a response, just some weird insult.
    Interesting that you view the response that I gave as a "weird insult", when I only gave it with as much honesty and directness as you gave your own opinion in the post I was responding too.

    Not unsubstantiated there was 3 pagan temples and a hippodrome on Patmos, that isn't some secret you can look that up yourself. He is pardoned, it's disservice to say he wasn't pardoned, otherwise he might have been killed in Patmos.

    Ziggaurats were not built high, they were built down. Noah's ark is a copy from the Sumerian flood epic.
    Let me break this down for you Shamash, so that you can understand a bit better – you stated, “The Bible won’t tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos" – why would you expect the Bible to tell you that when it is totally irrelevant to the message of the Revelation of Christ to John? Whether there were 20 pagan temples and 25 hippodromes, has nothing to do with what Revelations is about. That you make the unsubstantiated claim, as if, it were fact, that John’s vision included hippomancy in an attempt to link it to the fact that there were pagan temples that perhaps practiced hippomancy, remains just that, an unsubstantiated claim. The other Apostles and John were surrounded by paganism and cults, throughout their ministries and addressed them head on, they didn’t engage in them. Also, that John is pardoned is totally irrelevant to the book of Revelation and its message, so it is no big deal that the Bible doesn’t mention it, what IS important is the revelation itself.

    You go on: The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that a Cuneiform explains Enki dividing the languages and was passed into the tower of Babel epic. The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that the Babylonian's built Ziggurats and not Towers.

    Does it help you if I put it this way ' The Cuneiform won’t tell you that God is divine, supreme and above Enki and any other little ‘gods’…..do you get the picture yet???

    I don't know who these people are, personal experience of one has nothing to do with someone else, go sell your conversion garbage somewhere else.
    Of course you don't know who these people are - perhaps you should use your research skills to expand your knowledge and thus save yourself the embarrassment of reacting with such hubristic certainty on things you are in ignorance of.




    Last edited by Bonlee; 03-05-19, 12:07 PM.

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  • Shamash
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Comprehension usually comes with context, except obviously, when it doesn’t serve your purpose.
    As for what I meant by ‘data’ – (dictionary meaning later in post).
    ok?

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    As was I, see what I posted again.
    You didn't expand on anything by expanding on my analogy. All you did was take that the two who purchased the cars either got a warranty or not, that doesn't say much at all, it's still part of the process.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    And I expanded on your analogy to show the process and the similarity and ultimately the dissimilarity, which is applicable to your Baal/Yahweh claim.




    Were you not attempting ‘commonality’ with the use of your analogy in the first place?

    Shamash: Yahweh was originally a Canaanite God, when the Israelite's adopt Yahweh into their polytheistic pantheon he becomes an Israelite God. All Yahweh did was go from one culture to the next.

    The above is your understanding based on the ‘data’ you have chosen to ‘comprehend’.
    Commonality concerning this discussion, as far as Baal being Yahweh that's just cross pollination between the Ancient Israelite's and the Canaanite's


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    I don’t want to startle or alarm you Shamash, but the two references that I gave to you and that you ignored, disagree with you.


    Bonlee: I thought you studied etymology!?
    I don’t, obviously, and had to do a quick check on the internet, as my Bible uses 'ark' and I've never heard the word 'Tevah'. I suggest you try it, as it showed that the Orthodox Jewish Bible uses Ark and side references Tevah in brackets, and Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon for the different Christian Bible translations references 'Tevah' also for 'ark'.
    Tevah would have been the Babylonian word placed in the Biblical Ark epic.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Google is a great place to research all sorts of things, like the meaning of words, such as ‘data’, ‘intimate’, ‘tevah’….you should try it, you can learn a lot.

    Data
    Dictionary result for data/derte
    Noun
    1. facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.
    "there is very little data available"
    synonyms: facts, figures, statistics, details, particulars, specifics, features;
    information, evidence, intelligence, material, background, input;
    proof, fuel, ammunition;
    statement, report, return, dossier, file, documentation, archive(s);
    informalinfo, dope, low-down, deets;
    informalgen
    "there is a lack of data on the drug's effect on humans"
    Intimate:
    VERB
    • 1State or make known.
    ‘Mr Hutchison has intimated his decision to retire’
    More example sentences
    Synonyms
    1. 1.1with clause Imply or hint.
    ‘he had already intimated that he might not be able to continue’

    Tevah:
    https://www.sermoncentral.com/bible/...f=BibleDetails Bereshis 7

    1And Hashem said unto Noach, Come thou and all thy bais into the tevah (ark); for thee have I found tzaddik before Me in dor hazeh.
    And Hashem said unto Noach, Come thou and all thy bais into the tevah (ark); for thee have I found tzaddik before Me in dor hazeh

    https://bibliaparalela.com/hebrew/8429.htm

    "Come thou and all thy bais into the tevah (ark)" in Strong's Concordance which is the biblical reference for Hebrew terminology the term Tevah mean to be startled or alarmed

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    As I stated in that post, it is always a pleasure for me to delve deeper into scripture and to learn more from it. Do you read through your books and put them down and never pick them up again to see if you can learn more from them, tossing them aside, assured that you’ve gained everything possible from them after one reading and never refer to them again?
    Was just asking, you should read on Yahweh's connection to Tophet.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how foolish and blind some people are when relying on their own reasoning and comprehension skills and coming to the conclusions they do; your own posts, including this one above is a good example.
    Yeah you don't have a response, just some weird insult.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    Any comment with "most likely" inserted in the middle, does not warrant the use of a definite "No" at the beginning and a definite conclusive statement at its end, as if it were stated on fact.
    Most likely is not use congruently with the word "no", these are nominal terms, the locations don't change though. In fact I say no concerning the Israelite history, the example only gives geographic information, the most likely is only used for geographical purposes. And no it's not the same with "if" the Egyptian's and the Hittite's have a peace treaty in 1200 BC, and the document written in Indo-Euro by the Hittite's remains to this day.


    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.(unsubstantiated claim) Also, when John got to Patmos the governor of pardoned him, due to an incident with a storm on the way to Patmos.(irrelevant - He was still in exile and on Patmos at the time)
    Not unsubstantiated there was 3 pagan temples and a hippodrome on Patmos, that isn't some secret you can look that up yourself. He is pardoned, it's disservice to say he wasn't pardoned, otherwise he might have been killed in Patmos.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post

    The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that a Cuneiform explains Enki dividing the languages and was passed into the tower of Babel epic. ( see Noah's Ark posts - oral tradition, etc,etc,) The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that the Babylonian's built Ziggurats and not Towers.(Ziggurats/Towers - it still came tumbling down)
    Ziggaurats were not built high, they were built down. Noah's ark is a copy from the Sumerian flood epic.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    There are already many from Islam and Judaism that have got it right and have collectively recognized Christ for Who He was (is) and now love and know Him as Christians. Unfortunately, not everyone will get it right, however God is patient (longsuffering KJV) and wants all to come to Him and as the saying goes, ‘the game isn’t over until the fat lady sings!’

    I don't know who these people are, personal experience of one has nothing to do with someone else, go sell your conversion garbage somewhere else.





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  • Bonlee
    replied
    Originally posted by Shamash View Post
    What data? The bible is a collection of writings, I'm not sure what you mean by data? I guess you are talking about the rest of Hosea 2? All that happens is that the name "Baali" is stricken from the Israelite's and the prophet tricks the Israelite's into worship Yahweh who was already known as Baal, there isn't much more to it than that.
    Comprehension usually comes with context, except obviously, when it doesn’t serve your purpose.
    As for what I meant by ‘data’ – (dictionary meaning later in post).

    I don't know how saying something to the effect of warranty issues makes any difference? Or John's car is better than Sally's car? I was simply talking about the process.
    As was I, see what I posted again.

    Originally posted by Bonlee View Post
    And I expanded on your analogy to show the process and the similarity and ultimately the dissimilarity, which is applicable to your Baal/Yahweh claim.


    But, if it helps you think that you have some commonality I guess whatever floats your boat.
    Were you not attempting ‘commonality’ with the use of your analogy in the first place?

    Shamash: Yahweh was originally a Canaanite God, when the Israelite's adopt Yahweh into their polytheistic pantheon he becomes an Israelite God. All Yahweh did was go from one culture to the next.

    The above is your understanding based on the ‘data’ you have chosen to ‘comprehend’.

    Shamash: It's not the answer you want. Go look at Strong's Concordance.

    Shamash:Tevah means to be startled or alarmed
    I don’t want to startle or alarm you Shamash, but the two references that I gave to you and that you ignored, disagree with you.


    Bonlee: I thought you studied etymology!?
    I don’t, obviously, and had to do a quick check on the internet, as my Bible uses 'ark' and I've never heard the word 'Tevah'. I suggest you try it, as it showed that the Orthodox Jewish Bible uses Ark and side references Tevah in brackets, and Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon for the different Christian Bible translations references 'Tevah' also for 'ark'.


    Not saying you did, but Google isn't the best of places to start with research.
    Google is a great place to research all sorts of things, like the meaning of words, such as ‘data’, ‘intimate’, ‘tevah’….you should try it, you can learn a lot.

    Data
    Dictionary result for data/derte
    Noun
    1. facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.
    "there is very little data available"
    synonyms: facts, figures, statistics, details, particulars, specifics, features;
    information, evidence, intelligence, material, background, input;
    proof, fuel, ammunition;
    statement, report, return, dossier, file, documentation, archive(s);
    informalinfo, dope, low-down, deets;
    informalgen
    "there is a lack of data on the drug's effect on humans"
    Intimate:
    VERB
    • 1State or make known.
    ‘Mr Hutchison has intimated his decision to retire’
    More example sentences
    Synonyms
    1. 1.1with clause Imply or hint.
    ‘he had already intimated that he might not be able to continue’

    Tevah:
    https://www.sermoncentral.com/bible/...f=BibleDetails Bereshis 7

    1And Hashem said unto Noach, Come thou and all thy bais into the tevah (ark); for thee have I found tzaddik before Me in dor hazeh.


    hahaha I thought the Jews were "his chosen people", all joking aside, this is kind of unnecessary to emphasize or flaunt your faith in such a crass way.
    I simply made a statement - YOU chose for some reason to emphasise it with your crass response.

    So then you have read from Genesis to Revelations, cool. Then why earlier did you say you had to delve deeper into the "scripture"?
    As I stated in that post, it is always a pleasure for me to delve deeper into scripture and to learn more from it. Do you read through your books and put them down and never pick them up again to see if you can learn more from them, tossing them aside, assured that you’ve gained everything possible from them after one reading and never refer to them again?

    Yes, the Israelite's are sub structed as Polytheists, and go back and forth. Those nitwit Babylonian's are the ones who influence the Israelite's into Monotheism. I say nitwit to the Babylonian's because they couldn't figure out which God to worship (between Tiamat and Marduk), and they also foolishly adopt Baal or Bel. The Israelite's were also foolish because after the Babylonian Exile (6th century bce), and especially from the 3rd century bce on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal rather than merely local religion, the more common noun Elohim, meaning “God,” tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel’s God over all others, bearing in mind that El was very much so a Canaanite deity. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai (“My Lord”), which was translated as Kyrios (“Lord”) in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures. So all they did was use the Gods from Canaan and for some reason it became "divine", utter foolishness.
    It never ceases to amaze me how foolish and blind some people are when relying on their own reasoning and comprehension skills and coming to the conclusions they do; your own posts, including this one above is a good example.

    did you mean "indicate", because intimate is used improperly?
    I meant 'intimate' and it wasn't used improperly - see dictionary meaning and the way it was used.

    Bible doesn't bother me, in fact I absolutely love both the Tankh and the KJV, good books to read. Tankh and Bible are closest books to Cuneiform that I can get my hands on.
    Love KJV!

    No, the Bible does not actually give a good history on Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish history, for example, the city of Erech in the Bible is Uruk but the CH in Erech is actually an Sh/I. Meaning that Erech is actually not Uruk, most likely it is Abu Salabikh and is in Al-Qādisiyyah Governorate, Iraq while Uruk is actually in Al-Warka, Muthanna Governorate, Iraq. The Bible gets geographic locations incorrect by all the subsequent translations.
    Any comment with "most likely" inserted in the middle, does not warrant the use of a definite "No" at the beginning and a definite conclusive statement at its end, as if it were stated on fact.

    Also, the Bible won't tell you that the Hittite's were Indo-Euro and not Semitic, though at one point they are found in Canaan. If they are Indo-Euro they didn't come from Canaan, but settled in Canaan, meaning they are not descendants of Heth, the second son of Canaan, youngest son of Ham.
    Same with "If" - see above.

    The Bible won't tell you that in Revelations a Hippodrome was on the Island of Patmos and that John's vision of the 4 horsemen included hippomancy.(unsubstantiated claim) Also, when John got to Patmos the governor of pardoned him, due to an incident with a storm on the way to Patmos.(irrelevant - He was still in exile and on Patmos at the time)

    The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that a Cuneiform explains Enki dividing the languages and was passed into the tower of Babel epic. ( see Noah's Ark posts - oral tradition, etc,etc,) The Bible or Tankh won't tell you that the Babylonian's built Ziggurats and not Towers.(Ziggurats/Towers - it still came tumbling down)

    Technically I am a fan of all the Abrahamic faiths from Judaism, to its little brother Christianity to Christianities little sister Islam. You all have done a wonderful job of translating, re-translating and translating ad nauseum until infinity and beyond, don't worry some day collectively you'll get it right.
    There are already many from Islam and Judaism that have got it right and have collectively recognized Christ for Who He was (is) and now love and know Him as Christians. Unfortunately, not everyone will get it right, however God is patient (longsuffering KJV) and wants all to come to Him and as the saying goes, ‘the game isn’t over until the fat lady sings!’






    Last edited by Bonlee; 03-04-19, 12:37 AM.

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