Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Atheists and Agnostics are gaining.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Atheists and Agnostics are gaining.

    This survey may not have been very scientific, but they certainly are encouraging.
    Among the general population in the U.S., 52 percent of millennials identify as Protestant or Catholic, according to Pew, compared to 34.1 percent of Harvardís incoming class. And 13 percent of millennial Americans identify as atheist or agnostic, compared with 37.9 percent of Harvard freshmen who said they were atheist or agnostic.
    There-are-more-atheists-and-agnostics-entering-harvard-than-protestants-and-catholics

  • #2
    Originally posted by Keith C View Post
    This survey may not have been very scientific, but they certainly are encouraging.

    There-are-more-atheists-and-agnostics-entering-harvard-than-protestants-and-catholics
    So everything is as it was expected to be. No Surprises.

    Simple as that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally Posted by Keith C ;
      "This survey may not have been very scientific, but they certainly are encouraging.


      Originally, Harvard was a school FOR the blind, not OF the blind.


      I never saw a moor,
      I never saw the sea;
      Yet know I how the heather looks,
      And what a wave must be.

      I never spoke with God,
      Nor visited in heaven
      Yet certain am I of the spot
      As if the chart were given.

      Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

      Gary Lee
      In Him who is
      Semper Fidelis

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gary Lee View Post
        Originally, Harvard was a school FOR the blind, not OF the blind.
        But even die-hard Harvard buffs are not likely to know all of these Harvard firsts and historical snippets.
        Year Description
        1607 John Harvard, the College’s future namesake and first benefactor, was baptized at St. Saviour’s Church (now Southwark Cathedral), London.
        1635 John Harvard received his M.A. from Cambridge University, England.
        1636 First College in American colonies founded. The “Great and General Court of the Governor and Company of the Massachusetts Bay in New England” approves £400 for the establishment of “a schoale or colledge” later to be called “Harvard.”
        1637 The Great and General Court orders the “colledge” established one year earlier to be located at Newetowne (renamed “Cambrige” in 1638).
        Late 1637 or early 1638 The Overseers purchased the College’s first piece of real estate: a house and an acre of land from Goodman Peyntree. Located on the southern edge of “Cow-yard Row” and soon distinguished as the “College Yard,” this tract became the nucleus of present-day Harvard Yard and remains at the southern end of the Old Yard (the area west of Thayer, University, and Weld halls).
        1638 John Harvard wills his library (400 books) and half his estate to the College.
        1639 In recognition of John Harvard’s bequest, the Great and General Court orders “that the colledge agreed upon formerly to bee built at Cambridg shalbee called Harvard Colledge.”
        1640 Reverend Henry Dunster is appointed first president of Harvard.
        1642 First Harvard Commencement with nine graduates.
        1649 The Town of Cambridge and President Henry Dunster give Harvard the “College Farm” at Billerica, Mass., which paid annual rent to the College until the farm was sold in 1775.
        1650 Harvard granted Charter, still in effect today (with 2010 amendments).
        ...................................
        Historical Facts

        You seem to have been misinformed, or do you read with your eyes closed?

        Comment


        • #5
          Keith C said;
          ''You seem to have been misinformed, or do you read with your eyes closed"? (Now wouldn't that be cool)

          Hello Keith Gary here. I said "Originally, Harvard was a school FOR the blind, not OF the blind". I did not intend for the viewers to take that literally.
          My meaning was "a school for the blind (uninformed)/(students) by the sighted (informed)/(teachers) then,(1600's) originally.....vs. what it is today today.
          As far as the history of Harvard goes, maybe you would like to read below.

          History of Harvard

          History of Harvard – Puritan Foundation
          The history of Harvard University begins in 1630, when the Puritans settled Boston and immediately made plans for the establishment of a college to train ministers of the gospel. Harvard was officially born in 1636 and took up John 17:3 as its first goal: “And this is life eternal, that they know Thee to be the only very God and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent” (The Geneva Bible).

          Even to this day, the true goal and history of Harvard is etched in stone: “[One] of the next things we longed for and looked after was to advance learning and perpetuate it to posterity; dreading to leave an illiterate ministry to the churches, when our present ministers shall lie in the dust.”1

          History of Harvard – Teaching Truth
          The history of Harvard is grounded in one of its earliest supporters, Rev. John Harvard. Harvard donated books and money for the founding of the new Puritan college in the Boston area, but died young of tuberculosis. Even today, there is a large statue in the school’s quad of Rev. Harvard seated with a gigantic book open on his lap. It is, of course, the Bible. The original motto of Harvard was (in Latin): “Truth for Christ and the Church.” In the twentieth century, when Harvard became more secularized, they cut the last part of the phrase, so the motto is only “Truth” (Veritas). Of course, it was not secularism that produced Harvard, but Christianity.

          History of Harvard – The Point of Higher Education
          The history of Harvard continues with the “Harvard College Laws” of 1642 (from “New England’s First Fruits”). They quote a few Scriptures to show what the point of all their study is: to know God better. For example:

          2. Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3)… And seeing the Lord only gives wisdom, let everyone seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of Him (Proverbs 2:3).

          3. Everyone shall so exercise himself in reading the Scriptures twice a day that he shall be ready to give such an account of his proficiency therein, both in theoretical observations of the language and the logic, and in practical and spiritual truths, as his tutor shall require, according to his ability; seeing the entrance of the word giveth light, it giveth understanding, to the simple (Psalm 119:130).2

          History of Harvard – Christian Roots, Secular Future
          The true history of Harvard University is Christian. In fact, Harvard was essentially Christian longer than it has been secular. There is still some Christianity present, but it is not the dominant force by any means. But again, secularism did not produce this great institution, the religion of Jesus did.


          Gary Lee
          In Him who is
          Semper Fidelis

          Comment


          • #6
            In this forum, I find it is hard to tell distinguish between genuine posters and trolls.

            [QUOTE=Gary Lee;7238825
            History of Harvard – Puritan Foundation
            The history of Harvard University begins in 1630, when the Puritans settled Boston and immediately made plans for the establishment of a college to train ministers of the gospel.
            [/QUOTE]

            courses were so arranged that all students worked on related sub-
            jects each day. The schedule was: Monday and Tuesday morn-
            ings, logic (first year), ethics and politics (second year),
            arthmetic, geometry, and astronomy (third year), with study
            and disputation periods in the afternoons; Wednesday, Greek;
            Thursday, Hebrew; Friday, rhetoric; Saturday, divinity catechetical
            and, for freshmen, history and the nature of plants.
            This schedule made it possible for the president to conduct
            all the classes and still have time for administrative duties,
            and it followed the advice of Pierre de La Ramee that students
            should have a lecture on each subject, followed in turn by
            individual study, recitation, discussion, and dis- putation.
            In 1655 the first year was expanded to two years, more attention
            being given to the study of Greek, Hebrew, logic, and metaphysics.
            Development-of-a-curriculum-in-the-early-American-colleges

            Much more than blindly quoting biblical verses.
            Last edited by Keith C; 10-18-15, 12:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Keith C said "In this forum, I find it is hard to tell distinguish between genuine posters and trolls".

              "trolls"
              In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

              Hello Keith, Gary here again. You sound very educated. I, being a fairly new poster, have seen posts where some have been accused of being a troll, and though I never knew the definition of an internet forum troll, I surmised it was pretty negative. In your original post, you appeared to be excited that the atheist and agnostics were out numbering Catholics and protestants. I read your link. I do not dispute your findings. However, being a man of faith in God my creator, I happen to remember that Harvard was originally an institution of learning with the education of the ministry a primary goal. The original motto of Harvard was (in Latin): “Truth for Christ and the Church.” In the twentieth century, when Harvard became more secularized, they cut the last part of the phrase, so the motto is only “Truth” (Veritas). Of course, it was not secularism that produced Harvard, but Christianity. I didn't expect you to respond with.......Wow, thanks for showing me that, but I did think you could accept actual credible history. I stuck to the original post, I didn't try off topic provocation, or intent to provoke or disrupt. If you saw it that way, I apologize.
              Not knowing all the rules, is it improper for a christian to post in the Atheists and Agnostics forum.
              What is a genuine poster? (a non christian)? Did you read/understand/believe any of the Harvard history I posted?

              Kieth says....""Much more than blindly quoting biblical verses""..... Are there any other books beside the bible that are not tolerated in this search for truth?



              Gary Lee
              In Him who is
              Semper Fidelis

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gary Lee View Post
                Of course, it was not secularism that produced Harvard, but Christianity. I didn't expect you to respond with.......Wow, thanks for showing me that, but I did think you could accept actual credible history. I stuck to the original post, I didn't try off topic provocation, or intent to provoke or disrupt. If you saw it that way, I apologize.
                Not knowing all the rules, is it improper for a christian to post in the Atheists and Agnostics forum.
                What is a genuine poster? (a non christian)? Did you read/understand/believe any of the Harvard history I posted?

                Kieth says....""Much more than blindly quoting biblical verses""..... Are there any other books beside the bible that are not tolerated in this search for truth?
                Nothing improper about a christian posting to the secular forum, particularly if you keep comments civil. Only activity really banned is non-christians (or agnostics like me) posting on the religious side. CARM powers-that-be think Christians are too sensitive to be exposed to the real world.
                I understood what you posted on Harvard, but assumed (without checking sources of quotes) was that they were all from recent histories from christian/evangelical sources. I think the best historical sources are composed near the date of the actual events, that is why I think my sours on the actual daily routines of students is relevant.

                As to Harvard being founded with a christian background, in 1630 there was little alternative. That does not mean that everyone shared the same beliefs, but it was politic to conceal unorthodox views.
                For instance Isaac Newton had unconventional views on the Trinity, but he did not advertise that fact.

                The bible is certainly tolerated here, but I, and some other posters think it needs to be supported by other evidence.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Unbelievers have had control of the education system in America and other countries for thousands of years and their only successful educational program has been to dumb down the students in their charge.

                  If the unbeliever wants his children to be properly educated then they need to turn control of education back over to true Christians who know how to educate and run schools. (And Bob Jones does not fit in that category). There is a book out there called Hitler's Furies and it details the women of Nazi Germany and within its pages, the author records that the way Hitler was able to control his people, for the most part, was that he got rid of good educators and dumbed the curriculum way down.

                  The secular aspect of the western world, and to some extent many Christian educators, has failed the students of their nation and produced a very inferior product. These people let too many idiotic ideologies, they need a childhood and similar battle cries, interfere with real education and by real education I do not mean evolutionary based but truth based.

                  What the secular world wants, its goals, desires etc., are found in the very system and faith they so thoroughly reject-- God, His Bible, Jesus and his instructions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by archaeologist55 View Post
                    Unbelievers have had control of the education system in America and other countries for thousands of years and their only successful educational program has been to dumb down the students in their charge.
                    Thousands of years. Really. Care to rephrase that?

                    The secular aspect of the western world, and to some extent many Christian educators, has failed the students of their nation and produced a very inferior product.
                    I think you don't know what you're talking about. Or do you equate "inferior" with "disagrees with me"?

                    How are you gauging inferiority? What field are you an expert in?
                    Last edited by MikeWC; 12-01-15, 12:22 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MikeWC View Post
                      Thousands of years. Really. Care to rephrase that?



                      I think you don't know what you're talking about. Or do you equate "inferior" with "disagrees with me"?

                      How are you gauging inferiority? What field are you an expert in?
                      Actually I do know what I am talking about, I just did not go into specifics. The most successful education program of the last 30 years has been dumbing down of the western student and if you read the book Hitler Furies, you will see that was one of Hitler's strategies used to control the German people and get them to support his totalitarian ways.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by archaeologist55 View Post
                        Actually I do know what I am talking about, I just did not go into specifics. The most successful education program of the last 30 years has been dumbing down of the western student and if you read the book Hitler Furies, you will see that was one of Hitler's strategies used to control the German people and get them to support his totalitarian ways.
                        Sort of like how Trump is getting the mouth-breathing right wing Christians to support him by spewing his pseudo-macho racist nonsense?

                        NOBODY dumbs down students like conservative religionists.
                        Last edited by nmanning; 12-11-15, 02:05 PM.
                        "YECism is a collection of tall tales and nonsense and no science" - me
                        HOSEA 13:16
                        "One mechanism is the odds." - YEC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nmanning View Post
                          Sort of like how Trump is getting the mouth-breathing right wing Christians to support him by spewing his pseudo-macho racist nonsense?

                          NOBODY dumbs down students like conservative religionists.
                          Except for democrats and their liberal thinking. I think both parties and groups are responsible for the lack of intelligence and education in the western school systems (and I am not limiting this to just America).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MikeWC View Post
                            Thousands of years. Really. Care to rephrase that?
                            LOL. Apparently not. What a ridiculous assertion.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by archaeologist55 View Post
                              Except for democrats and their liberal thinking. I think both parties and groups are responsible for the lack of intelligence and education in the western school systems (and I am not limiting this to just America).
                              Yet our innovations and advances in every field of human endeavor (not just science and technology) is unprecedented in human history. How do you explain that?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X