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Distance Ed

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  • Distance Ed

    Personally, I have found a solid and affordable distance school to be elusive. I ended up going to a series of expensive top shelf schools, and there are many days when I regret it. I'd love to hear your experience with distance Ed, and why you chose the institution you did. If accredidation isn't an issue for you, and you are serious about academic study of the Bible and theology, check this link out:
    Tuitionfreebibleschool.com
    Trinitarian Apologist - Evangelical Contrarian
    B.S. Theology and Bible, Master of Biblical Studies (NT)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    Personally, I have found a solid and affordable distance school to be elusive. I ended up going to a series of expensive top shelf schools, and there are many days when I regret it. I'd love to hear your experience with distance Ed, and why you chose the institution you did. If accredidation isn't an issue for you, and you are serious about academic study of the Bible and theology, check this link out:
    Tuitionfreebibleschool.com
    What about these:-
    5_Universities_Offering_Free_Theology_and_World_Re ligions_Courses_Online

    Comment


    • #3
      What you have linked to are free courses as opposed to a tuition free education ending in an actual degree.
      Trinitarian Apologist - Evangelical Contrarian
      B.S. Theology and Bible, Master of Biblical Studies (NT)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Michael View Post
        Personally, I have found a solid and affordable distance school to be elusive. I ended up going to a series of expensive top shelf schools, and there are many days when I regret it. I'd love to hear your experience with distance Ed, and why you chose the institution you did. If accredidation isn't an issue for you, and you are serious about academic study of the Bible and theology, check this link out:
        Tuitionfreebibleschool.com

        Some general comments, here. I teach human anatomy and physiology at a community college. There are Distance Ed science courses, but they do not properly serve students. There are just some things you have to absorb through your fingertips: like "THIS is what a pectoralis muscle direct attachment to the sternum is."

        In your chosen field, it isn't that, so much as the discipline required on the part of the student. There is no common culture or support group nearby. (I mean literally nearby, like down the hall or across the quad.) You have to set your own schedule, you have to be sure assignments are completed on schedule, you have to avoid the Internet distractions.

        Have you tried outfits like Western Governors' University?
        Reality rules, Honor the truth - in memory of Chemist.

        fusilier
        James 2:24

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fusilier View Post
          Some general comments, here. I teach human anatomy and physiology at a community college. There are Distance Ed science courses, but they do not properly serve students. There are just some things you have to absorb through your fingertips: like "THIS is what a pectoralis muscle direct attachment to the sternum is."

          In your chosen field, it isn't that, so much as the discipline required on the part of the student. There is no common culture or support group nearby. (I mean literally nearby, like down the hall or across the quad.) You have to set your own schedule, you have to be sure assignments are completed on schedule, you have to avoid the Internet distractions.

          Have you tried outfits like Western Governors' University?
          When it comes to the kind of hands on learning that actual lab experience requires, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. Obviously, those kinds of things require traditional course work. However, soft sciences don't require that kind of work, and all DL programs are not the same. Certainly DL courses require a highly motivated student. And yes, a student who can deal with problem solving, scheduling, and the like. But how is that a drawback? Seems to me that these are real world skills, and adults generally learn in a manner akin to DL.

          As for myself, I have a grad degree and I haven't decided on doctoral work. I may call it quits, or I may not. But in any event, I think the Evangelical Institute for Biblical Studies offers a lot for no tuition. The coursework is sound, and the methodology should engender serious learning. There is something to be said for a text-based education that is not personality centered.

          The other issue typically brought up here is accreditation. This school is frank about their lack of accreditation, and given what accreditation is actually based upon, I don't think that is a bad thing. Honesty is the best policy.
          Trinitarian Apologist - Evangelical Contrarian
          B.S. Theology and Bible, Master of Biblical Studies (NT)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Michael View Post
            What you have linked to are free courses as opposed to a tuition free education ending in an actual degree.
            Is a degree without accreditation worth anything?
            It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. - Richard Feynman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lntz View Post
              Is a degree without accreditation worth anything?
              That is a fine question, and one that needs to be asked. If the school that issued the degree is legitimate and the student actually received an education in accordance with the degree, then yes. Accreditation is based upon myriad issues. Take for instance the premier seminary accreditor, the Association of Theological Schools (ATS). Many who graduate from an ATS accredited school come out with a PhD in confusion- I can personally attest as I know many people who fit that description. Accreditation is based upon issues like faculty to student ratio, academic rigor and the like. But it is also based upon things like the number of volumes in the school library, size of the gymnasium, endowment size, and many more issues that are for the most part, irrelevant within a distance context. In my view, a thought through ciriculum, biblical fidelity, and genuine academic rigor are far more important than accreditation. And I say that as someone who has degrees from accredited institutions.
              Trinitarian Apologist - Evangelical Contrarian
              B.S. Theology and Bible, Master of Biblical Studies (NT)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lntz View Post
                Is a degree without accreditation worth anything?
                Yes it is. read this from the president of one of my graduate schools:

                http://dakotascba.com/Accreditation.php

                It explains what accreditation really is and how it works.

                as for distance education, education is education it doesn't matter how you get it, how much you pay for it or if you go to a brick and motor school or stay at home and study. you just need to make sure you are getting credible information, follow the HS to the truth and make sure you work your tail off to become educated.

                of course, I will qualify those words with the following-- there will always be charlatans out there who will lie to you and get money from you while giving you nothing but crap. You just have to be discerning and investigate the institution well before signing up.

                Masters International University of Divinity was cheap when I attended there and it has gone through several name changes since that time as they reach for accreditation

                http://ims.mdivs.edu/

                It provided actual lectures by qualified professors on cassette tape, at that time, and was well organized etc., they also marked your work. How they do things now I wouldn't know as I haven't been in contact with them for several years. They are far too expensive for me now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael View Post
                  .... Accreditation is based upon issues like faculty to student ratio, academic rigor and the like. But it is also based upon things like the number of volumes in the school library, size of the gymnasium, endowment size, and many more issues that are for the most part, irrelevant within a distance context. In my view, a thought through ciriculum, biblical fidelity, and genuine academic rigor are far more important than accreditation. And I say that as someone who has degrees from accredited institutions.
                  Can you really have academic rigor without a very good library (or on-line access) and journals?

                  Surely a good education should not start with 'biblical fidelity'. That may possibly be the conclusion after an education, but true education should not be restricted.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Keith C View Post
                    Can you really have academic rigor without a very good library (or on-line access) and journals?

                    Surely a good education should not start with 'biblical fidelity'. That may possibly be the conclusion after an education, but true education should not be restricted.
                    For the believer, it is not about academic rigor but getting to the truth and that begins with the fidelity of the Bible. A good education always starts with believing the Bible, the fear of the lord...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I guess it depends on what you mean by affordable and what subjects you want to study.

                      A lot of accredited state universities and community colleges offer distance learning courses at their in-state tuition rates, which can be under $200 per credit hour. One student I work with is taking distance learning courses through UC Berkeley for about $400 per credit hour.

                      There are cases where distance learning courses are easy As, and there are cases where real learning is much harder than in person instruction because of the amount and kinds of independent student effort required. But I've overseen a lot of quality distance learning, and it can be had.

                      There are many more introductory courses offered online than there are entire degree programs. The entire degree programs tend to be more expensive, especially graduate work.
                      “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Michael View Post
                        That is a fine question, and one that needs to be asked. If the school that issued the degree is legitimate and the student actually received an education in accordance with the degree, then yes. Accreditation is based upon myriad issues. Take for instance the premier seminary accreditor, the Association of Theological Schools (ATS). Many who graduate from an ATS accredited school come out with a PhD in confusion- I can personally attest as I know many people who fit that description. Accreditation is based upon issues like faculty to student ratio, academic rigor and the like. But it is also based upon things like the number of volumes in the school library, size of the gymnasium, endowment size, and many more issues that are for the most part, irrelevant within a distance context. In my view, a thought through ciriculum, biblical fidelity, and genuine academic rigor are far more important than accreditation. And I say that as someone who has degrees from accredited institutions.
                        Just to add a different perspective here, I've had numerous employers ask in an interview if my degree was online or earned while attending my university, with the obvious implication (or sometimes explicit statement) that the online degree would be seen in a lesser light. Given this, if one is going for an online degree, going for an accredited online degree may lessen the negative effect of the perception of online degrees by some employers.
                        Can't remember why I have a secular moniker, but I am a Christian just so you know. Per Admin: Evangelism: Rule 24: .... Posters seeking to debate Evangelical Christians should take their discussions or questions to the appropriate forum, apologetics/etc., Atheists/Agnostics/Secularists, or those continuing to debate Evangelicals on the inappropriate forums will be assigned to the ATH/AGN/Secular forums as a Secular Member.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Michael View Post
                          That is a fine question, and one that needs to be asked. If the school that issued the degree is legitimate and the student actually received an education in accordance with the degree, then yes. Accreditation is based upon myriad issues. Take for instance the premier seminary accreditor, the Association of Theological Schools (ATS). Many who graduate from an ATS accredited school come out with a PhD in confusion- I can personally attest as I know many people who fit that description. Accreditation is based upon issues like faculty to student ratio, academic rigor and the like. But it is also based upon things like the number of volumes in the school library, size of the gymnasium, endowment size, and many more issues that are for the most part, irrelevant within a distance context. In my view, a thought through ciriculum, biblical fidelity, and genuine academic rigor are far more important than accreditation. And I say that as someone who has degrees from accredited institutions.
                          In principle I agree with you.

                          If the purpose of completing a course is to obtain a quality education, and a non-accredited course truly provides this, then go for it.

                          However, accreditation does provide a kind of guarantee that the course is providing a decent education. It is not always easy to assess this for yourself, or for an employer to know. Just the perception of what accreditation means can make it valuable externally (i.e an employer valuing it highly), as opposed to the internal value of actually getting the education.

                          It sounds like you know what you want, which is of course fine.
                          It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lntz View Post
                            In principle I agree with you.

                            If the purpose of completing a course is to obtain a quality education, and a non-accredited course truly provides this, then go for it.

                            However, accreditation does provide a kind of guarantee that the course is providing a decent education. It is not always easy to assess this for yourself, or for an employer to know. Just the perception of what accreditation means can make it valuable externally (i.e an employer valuing it highly), as opposed to the internal value of actually getting the education.

                            It sounds like you know what you want, which is of course fine.
                            This is a common perception of accreditation, but the reality is much different. Given the state of math and science education, I'd believe some snapshots of completed ALEKS online coursework (unaccredited) with much greater confidence than I'd believe a transcript showing analogous courses from most community colleges and many state universities and some private schools. Some math departments are now taking the same view, requiring completion of an ALEKS pre-calc assessment for enrollment in Calculus, even if an entire accredited pre-calc course appears on the transcript.

                            Likewise, I'd be more confident in someone's computer programming ability if they showed evidence of completing online, unaccredited Coursera courses than transcripts of accredited courses from many institutions. Ultimately, I'd ask for code samples, run the code, dig into the source, and sit down and talk to them about it before hiring them for a job that required programming.
                            “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LittleDrummerBoy View Post
                              I guess it depends on what you mean by affordable and what subjects you want to study.

                              A lot of accredited state universities and community colleges offer distance learning courses at their in-state tuition rates, which can be under $200 per credit hour. One student I work with is taking distance learning courses through UC Berkeley for about $400 per credit hour.

                              There are cases where distance learning courses are easy As, and there are cases where real learning is much harder than in person instruction because of the amount and kinds of independent student effort required. But I've overseen a lot of quality distance learning, and it can be had.

                              There are many more introductory courses offered online than there are entire degree programs. The entire degree programs tend to be more expensive, especially graduate work.
                              i agree with what you have said though I would find $200-400 per credit hour too expensive. That is still running into the thousands of dollars something distance education was developed to avoid.

                              Comment

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