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Who is best qualified to teach children?

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  • Originally posted by WendyWrites View Post
    I wanted to add: I am in favor of charter schools and vouchers because of those horrible inner city schools. Money and everything else has been thrown at them to no avail. What has happened to those children there is nothing less than a tragedy, and it is not okay--if it came across that because I believe in local control, that it is okay that children are trapped in these schools....no. I don't mean that at all.

    This is where I part ways with my conservative brethren, JRT: Standardized test scores. Children are NOT widgets and children's home life has a HUGE impact on how they will and can learn. You cannot expect a five year old who is not eating a breakfast or dinner at home, and who is being "taken care of" by her seven year old brother, to be reading by the end of kindergarten--and that she cannot read is NOT the teacher's fault. Etc. The problems run deep and strong, and are deeper than "public schooling", I fear.
    i think you are mistaken if you think that all conservatives support standardized testing...we apparently don't know the same conservatives. i am more in favor of benchmark testing - test at the beginning of the year and then at the end to look at growth more than a specific day of the year.

    I've sat in on meetings at the Dept of Ed with some of Arne Duncan's folks - while i am not necessarily a fan, i had hopes that he was on track for making some real inroads with education (including moving towards a growth model with the reauthorization of NCLB, but that never happened, the growth model nor the reauth) - but that appears to be on hold while new programs are pursued and funding is declining for spec ed and impact aid...
    ********
    cassie
    ********
    Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

    Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

    for today, for this moment... it is well with my soul.

    as long as there is life, there is hope.

    what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

    Comment


    • i tend to get in dutch with my fellow board members as i strongly support parental choice in education for their kiddos. parents are the best judge of what is the optimal educational model for their children, be it public (charter or non-charter), private, homeschool - children are not cookies so the cookie cutter mode doesn't work.
      Originally posted by WendyWrites View Post
      I'm just going to present this fact with no commentary. It is very hard to maintain beautiful, modern schools in the inner city, because they are regularly raided and looted clear of whatever they might be able to gather, from band instruments to computers to you name it.

      So it's not so much a schooling problem, as you can see...it's a societal problem. Many people who support public education are completely against charter schools and vouchers. I cannot be, because while charter and private schools are not perfect, the public schools in these areas are atrocious, and every single child is precious. Every single child deserves our best. If the public schools can't or won't deliver, we should not hold children hostage.
      ********
      cassie
      ********
      Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

      Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

      Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

      for today, for this moment... it is well with my soul.

      as long as there is life, there is hope.

      what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

      Comment


      • yet you employ the same form of stereotyping when you denigrate all homeschoolers by stereotyping...
        Originally posted by MikeD570 View Post
        I don't understand why so many conservatives live by stereotypes and employ strawman fallacies as their primary mode of discourse.

        Nor do I understand why so many conservatives mistake defending public schools and teachers against illogical and largely idiotic attacks as "blindly defending them".

        As I indicated earlier, I am wary of statistics lauding the superiority of homeschooling when those statistics come from pro-homeschooling groups that tend to rely on self-reported data, in much the same way as I am wary of the Heritage Foundation issuing a 'report' declaring climate change is not real.
        ********
        cassie
        ********
        Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

        Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

        Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

        for today, for this moment... it is well with my soul.

        as long as there is life, there is hope.

        what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cas07 View Post
          yet you employ the same form of stereotyping when you denigrate all homeschoolers by stereotyping...
          Please provide evidence that I denigrate all homeschoolers by stereotyping.

          I surmise that people like you actually think you make good points when you write posts like the one you did - your ilk do seem to tend to live by the notion that ignoring context and relying on selective quotes is how the best discussions occur.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MikeD570 View Post
            I know that in many areas, home school parents share 'teaching' responsibilities and many even form little 'schools'. Which sort of argues against their whole impetus for not liking public schools in the first place.
            Not sure you think homeschoolers sharing teaching responsibilities or forming little schools argue against a dislike of public schools. Could you explain please?
            ********
            cassie
            ********
            Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

            Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

            Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

            for today, for this moment... it is well with my soul.

            as long as there is life, there is hope.

            what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

            Comment


            • Comments like this, I suppose, is where I got that impression:
              Originally posted by MikeD570 View Post
              Better to brainwash them in right-wing religious lies at home - no fear of your little bots hearing about the big old world out there.

              Sure, it will take in some of them. Others will learn facts on their own, and resent their parents for lying to them.
              Originally posted by MikeD570 View Post
              Please provide evidence that I denigrate all homeschoolers by stereotyping.

              I surmise that people like you actually think you make good points when you write posts like the one you did - your ilk do seem to tend to live by the notion that ignoring context and relying on selective quotes is how the best discussions occur.
              People like me? More stereotyping on your part, as evidenced by the rest of your post?

              My ilk? What ilk is that?
              ********
              cassie
              ********
              Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

              Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

              Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

              for today, for this moment... it is well with my soul.

              as long as there is life, there is hope.

              what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

              Comment


              • My personal opinion is that children benefit from having lots of teachers in their lives, including parents, professionals, online resources, the community and peers. This is because someone's educational attainments don't say a whole lot about their ability to reach students as a group. Just because someone has a bachelor's degree doesn't mean they have the organizational skills to design a stable curriculum and plan out a classroom in a way that makes knowledge more accessible to students. Having a master's degree doesn't guarantee someone has the patience, emotional stability and flexibility to provide a consistently strong education to each student. Having only a high school diploma doesn't mean a person cannot think deeply and philosophically, can't communicate a love of knowledge. Even someone with only an elementary education can share a particular subject they feel passionate about and inspire others to take an interest. Some teachers feel empathy for the slower students and are great at working with kids who struggle, while others get impatient or frustrated. Some admire and enjoy working with advanced students while others may be jealous or annoyed with kids who find learning easy. Then there is the fact that some students learn best through written and verbal communication while others are better at hands on activities, some can analyze and theorize while others are best with tangible and concrete concepts.

                I don't think you can say that it's always better for a student to be at home or always better that they are in a school. Some students are very self-motivated and will do great with the kind of independent study home school usually offers, but others need structure and group activities to get them going. Instead, I think it's best to combine education. If you want your child in a school, make sure you don't just leave it all to the school. Teach some things at home, or use online resources, or have your friends take them on field trips. If you want your child home, enrol them in some private lessons and clubs where they can get other perspectives, do online curriculum or have them take one or two classes at a private school near you. I really think that is the best option for students.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by nmanning View Post
                  Interesting. Rather than remember what you had written that I was responding to in the first place:
                  Public schools turn out large numbers of functionally illiterate young adults...who can barely read, cannot do simple algebra and are not qualified to do any meaningful work in today's workplace.

                  Many of today's teachers are no different than what you are complaining the average parent to be... Do you hold such disdain for all parents, or just those who homeschool?
                  You want to play the 'golly, he is so mean to poor little me' card.




                  And yet you write that as if your intellectual/socio-religio-political brethren are innocents. Here is a list of quotes from one of your brothers in right-wing christ:



                  "Who hates humanity, God or the bozos who hate God and make fun of His Word? Not God, I assure you, but the idiots who slander God to His face as thought there will never be a response from God to that blasphemous rebellion."

                  "I don't care what evo bozos think, I have plenty of evidences and they are stupid for thinking otherwise. Evos are under the influence of evil they know nothing about."

                  "That's right. Wicked God-rejecting bozos are nothing more than uncivilized savages who promote the sort of depravity which is drowning the world in sin, sorrow, and destruction."

                  "There are no end of up and coming brainwashed bozos who are willing to take their turn at trying to get ignorant evo theories to debunk the Bible, but their efforts are exercises in hopeless futility."

                  "Why, because some bozo bonobo wrote a difinition worded in such a way to make it so? You know we all share DNA similarity with bananas and cabbage, so why not throw that in there as well? Sheesh - idiots!"

                  "Evo bozos cannot see two feet in front of their face. They ignorantly imagine and then declare that God did not create all things and then congratulate themselves in the 'superiority' of their knowledge although being unable to come up with the first reasonable and scientifically feasible clue as to how all things suddenly appeared from nothing. Stiff-necked bozos."

                  "Here is another clear example of how ignorant and lying evo myths will end up getting millions of people killed. If we read the Bible we see that the miserable moronic muslim brotherhoods will all be slain and cast into the fire in the end Judgment of God. Nobody who sides with those God-rejecting idiots will ever come back alive."

                  "Just because the man is a flaming idiot, does that mean all his devotees have to be stupid idiots also?"



                  If I remember correctly, I found all of those on just one page of his posts.


                  So, you must feel sorry for most of the Christian conservatives that post on this forum?

                  Oh, and no examples of your claims, either. Imagine that...
                  One can almost always tell when a rightist has been pwned...
                  "YECism is a collection of tall tales and nonsense and no science" - me
                  HOSEA 13:16
                  "One mechanism is the odds." - YEC

                  Comment

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