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Israel and the Rothschilds, an evil state of affairs!

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  • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post

    No, itís not about the Jewish people (in general). Itís about the people (jews) present at that moment (in general).

    this is obvious from the context.
    Then perhaps you would like to give us all an explanation for the rest of that verse and tell us all why the writer of Matthew wrote this, τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν.
    On the evidence:

    If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Thistle View Post

      I don't object to this line of conversation, I just refuse to have it on this thread. If you link to a new OP I'd be happy to follow it there, provided the title is not blatantly antisemitic.
      You have the freedom to start a thread.
      On the evidence:

      If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

      Comment


      • But
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Then perhaps you would like to give us all an explanation for the rest of that verse and tell us all why the writer of Matthew wrote this, τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν.
        No the context Establishes the scope. . Itís about those present and speaking. Those were all the people being referenced, those are the ones who answered.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post
          But

          No the context Establishes the scope. . It’s about those present and speaking. Those were all the people being referenced, those are the ones who answered.
          That does not actually address my question.

          I asked you to tell us all why the writer of Matthew wrote τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν?

          You have yet to explain that specific section of the text.
          On the evidence:

          If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            That does not actually address my question.

            I asked you to tell us all why the writer of Matthew wrote τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν?

            You have yet to explain that specific section of the text.
            What does the English say?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post

              What does the English say?
              Good grief! Do you not know your gospels?
              On the evidence:

              If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

              Comment




              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Good grief! Do you not know your gospels?
                Not in Greek, no.

                do you have a point?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post



                  Not in Greek, no.

                  do you have a point?
                  As these exchanges have been on Matthew 27:25 I would have thought you knew the text.
                  On the evidence:

                  If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    As these exchanges have been on Matthew 27:25 I would have thought you knew the text.
                    Well, the people said something, and he recorded it. Thatís why he wrote it. What is there to explain. What do you not Understand?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post

                      Well, the people said something, and he recorded it. Thatís why he wrote it. What is there to explain. What do you not Understand?
                      This is not a verbatim account by someone taking notes at the event.

                      Nor is it about what I "understand".

                      I want you to tell us all (as you might state "rationally") what you understand as to why the writer of Matthew has "the people" saying "τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν [The blood of him on us and on the children of us].

                      Or as the NRSV translates it "His blood be on us and on our children" .
                      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 04-22-19, 08:21 PM.
                      On the evidence:

                      If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        This is not a verbatim account by someone taking notes at the event.

                        Nor is it about what I "understand".

                        I want you to tell us all (as you might state "rationally") what you understand as to why the writer of Matthew has "the people" saying "τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν [The blood of him on us and on the children of us].

                        Or as the NRSV translates it "His blood be on us and on our children" .
                        I suspect this was recorded in part to highlight the cold fickleness and presumption of the crowd.

                        Why?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post

                          I suspect this was recorded in part to highlight the cold fickleness and presumption of the crowd.
                          What textual evidence supports that assumption?


                          Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post
                          Why?
                          I am asking you to explain what you understand was meant by "and our children".

                          You can also explain how a crowd [ὄχλῳ] not only managed to, collectively, have precisely the same thought at precisely the same time, but articulate that thought en masse at precisely the same moment.
                          On the evidence:

                          If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            What textual evidence supports that assumption?




                            I am asking you to explain what you understand was meant by "and our children".

                            You can also explain how a crowd [ὄχλῳ] not only managed to, collectively, have precisely the same thought at precisely the same time, but articulate that thought en masse at precisely the same moment.
                            This kind of hyper literal claim you are making has to be driven by agenda, rather than simply making common sense assumptions, thst this language being used is similar to common usages of language all the time, inother words it is generalization.

                            As the example gave earlier in the discussion, itís common to generalize, just like people say <the American people are decent people> or any such comment. Or <the crowd sang a song> For example.

                            I think you know this. And your question is rather silly and transparent in its agenda.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post

                              This kind of hyper literal claim you are making has to be driven by agenda
                              You fail to comprehend that the text is all we have and that text, as it has come down to us, has to be examined both literally and critically within its historical context.

                              Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post
                              , rather than simply making common sense assumptions, thst this language being used is similar to common usages of language all the time, inother words it is generalization.
                              How do you know it is a "generalization"?

                              Where is the textual evidence to support that contention?

                              You are making a lot of assumptions about this verse.

                              Originally posted by Simpletruther View Post
                              As the example gave earlier in the discussion, it’s common to generalize, just like people say <the American people are decent people> or any such comment. Or <the crowd sang a song> For example.
                              Other texts are not part of this exchange. That is, yet again, an attempt on your part to deflect and of course to make generalisations.

                              I have to conclude that you are merely offering your own presuppositions.

                              All we have is the text as it has come down to us. Everything else is interpretation.

                              Therefore, and to repeat my earlier comments, the Christian church and various ECFs interpreted this text to include all Jews in perpetuity and that interpretation permitted the Christian persecution of the Jewish people.

                              On the evidence:

                              If there were no Patriarchs, no Exodus, no conquest of Canaan, no united monarchy under David and Solomon. Can the early biblical Israel described in the books of Moses, Judges, Joshua, and Samuel, ever have existed at all?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                You fail to comprehend that the text is all we have and that text, as it has come down to us, has to be examined both literally and critically within its historical context.

                                How do you know it is a "generalization"?

                                Where is the textual evidence to support that contention?


                                I donít know itís a generalization. Just like I do t know when Obama said the American people are good people, he meant it literally every single one, or just most.

                                I dont know that I am not in the matrix either.

                                Of course I have to make assumptions when reading this, just like all of us do every day reading, or hearing someone speak.

                                But the assumptions I am making are common, and the ones that seem common across languages and peoples. People speak generally often, and donít qualify lots of statements, because itís assumed.

                                frankly I think you are being silly. And you know that my assumptions are reasonable and fit well.

                                and you are are way overstepping with this.

                                Comment

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