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Kavanaugh's Sexual Assault Claim

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
    Thanks a lot. 9 replies (by my count) - and ONE addressed the OP.
    I DID address part of the content of your OP. And, by the way, I found the story that referenced the content of your post.

    My comment still stands regarding your unequal treatment of Kavanaugh and Moore, vibise's comments notwithstanding.
    It all seems so arbritary. I applied at this company because they were hiring, I took a desk at the back because it was empty. But no matter how you get there or where you end up, humans have a miraculous gift to make that place home. -creed bratton

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    • #17
      I'm thankful that my character today is not judged based on my conduct as a high-school student, or as an 18-year-old Marine.
      It all seems so arbritary. I applied at this company because they were hiring, I took a desk at the back because it was empty. But no matter how you get there or where you end up, humans have a miraculous gift to make that place home. -creed bratton

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by awsmmix View Post
        I'm thankful that my character today is not judged based on my conduct as a high-school student, or as an 18-year-old Marine.
        There are plenty of valid reasons for rejecting Kavanaugh based on his contempt for women's reproductive rights and belief in no equal rights for non-hetero citizens but I have to agree. Dragging up a "he-said she-said" case from high school going on 4 decades ago is pretty petty and may backfire on the Dems.
        "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
          I make no claims as to the truth of the allegation of sexual assault being leveled at Judge Brett Kavanaugh. Like many, I find the timing of the release of the allegation suspicious. But I also find reasonable the idea that the alleged victim did not want to make such a charge until she felt it was necessary in order to stop his appointment to the Supreme Court. I don't know if the allegation is true or not, and am glad I am not charged with determining it.

          But I'd like to address a different angle - for the purposes of the thread, let's assume the allegation is true, and please, don't discuss in here whether or not it is true. We'll assume it is, just for the sake of this thread, so we can explore another angle.

          So (again, for the purposes of this thread), Judge Kavanaugh, 36 years ago, when he was 17, had been drinking and was 'very drunk'. He (or a friend, or both) pushed a 15 year old female into a bedroom, where Kavanaugh pinned her to the bed and groped her, trying to remove her clothing and a one-piece bathing suit underneath. She tried to scream, and Kavanaugh held his hand over her mouth. She eventually managed to get free and escape.

          Now, given that the above happened (again, for the purposes of this thread - I am making no judgement as to the truth of the allegation) - should it affect his nomination to the Supreme Court? Should someone who did this 36 years ago automatically be not entitled to serve on the Supreme Court? Or is it so far ago - with no hint of anything remotely similar since - that it should have no bearing? And is it enough to affect his existing appointment (Judgehood, if that's a word)?

          Legally, if it had come to light at the time, presumably he would have been charged - would his record have been expunged when he turned 18? I don't know - perhaps someone else does?

          Could how the law would have treated him at the time influence his ruling on the law today?

          Are we getting to to the point where if you want to hold public office, you better not have done a single thing wrong in your entire life? DUI at 19? Forget it. You'll never serve. Peed against a wall on the way home from a concert when you were 17? Not a chance you'll ever get it. Is that what we want? Are we in danger of ruling good people who made a stupid mistake out of positions where they might have done a wonderful job?
          The answer really is how he reacts to the accusations. If someone is repentant and apologizes sincerely then I’d be willing to forgive easily.

          If he’s a ******bag and tries to assasinate her character despite more evidence coming forward, than screw him.

          A good test case was Roseanne vs James Gunn (director of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies). 10 years ago, Gunn had a habit of making (very) offensive jokes. He had since apologizes sincerely, and doesn’t do it anymore, and yet when a bunch of trolls got him fired over it, he still accepted it gracefully.

          Roseanne made a bunch of racist remarks years ago. But she kept making remarks jokes. And when she was fired over it, she tried to blame Xanax (or some other medication), screamed she was being targeted for being conservative and kept doing so.

          So forger her.

          Or take Frankin- he acknowledged it, apologized and still resigned (though he shouldn’t have had to).

          Roy Moore tripled down, didn’t accept his loss, and tried to sue his accusers.

          In general, awful people tend to act awful when they get caught, and good people tend to apologize and accept the consequences. Case study of the latter: Donald Trump.

          To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
          - Theodore Roosevelt

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          • #20
            The cesspool media reacts without investigation.

            The cesspool media is not investigating Ellison charges.


            Originally posted by Master Fwiffo View Post

            The answer really is how he reacts to the accusations. If someone is repentant and apologizes sincerely then I’d be willing to forgive easily.

            If he’s a ******bag and tries to assasinate her character despite more evidence coming forward, than screw him.

            A good test case was Roseanne vs James Gunn (director of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies). 10 years ago, Gunn had a habit of making (very) offensive jokes. He had since apologizes sincerely, and doesn’t do it anymore, and yet when a bunch of trolls got him fired over it, he still accepted it gracefully.

            Roseanne made a bunch of racist remarks years ago. But she kept making remarks jokes. And when she was fired over it, she tried to blame Xanax (or some other medication), screamed she was being targeted for being conservative and kept doing so.

            So forger her.

            Or take Frankin- he acknowledged it, apologized and still resigned (though he shouldn’t have had to).

            Roy Moore tripled down, didn’t accept his loss, and tried to sue his accusers.

            In general, awful people tend to act awful when they get caught, and good people tend to apologize and accept the consequences. Case study of the latter: Donald Trump.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by robert4818 View Post

              I'll entertain your hypothetical. Its a tough call. On one hand, its not an incident that has an expiration date on it. However 30 plus years is also long enough to als put it into context with the rest of his life. It wouldn't be an automatic rejection, but would definitely be a consideration in my decision.
              That's about how I'd approach it.
              A forum liberal
              "When you claimed black people were raped, wasn't that racist? I'd say so."

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Master Fwiffo View Post

                In general, awful people tend to act awful when they get caught, and good people tend to apologize and accept the consequences. Case study of the latter: Donald Trump.
                Or Asia Argento....
                A forum liberal
                "When you claimed black people were raped, wasn't that racist? I'd say so."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tim H View Post

                  There are plenty of valid reasons for rejecting Kavanaugh based on his contempt for women's reproductive rights and belief in no equal rights for non-hetero citizens but I have to agree. Dragging up a "he-said she-said" case from high school going on 4 decades ago is pretty petty and may backfire on the Dems.
                  We agree, it's gonna hurt their November midterms, the world knows the democrats want to hang Kavanaugh, ye ole high school days 40 years ago ain't gonna work!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by vibise View Post

                    A DUI is different from a physical attack on another person.

                    At this point in time, women are coming forward to make clear that we should not be subject to groping on buses, other public places or workplaces. We should not be subject to sexually explicit catcalls while walking down the street. Men are not entitled to do this by virtue of being men, and should be held to account for such assaults.

                    Pretty much all women have been subjected to this mistreatment and worse, as was described by Kavanaugh's victim.

                    We are insisting that the men who engage in such actions be held to account. An incident that occurred in high school might be excused for a minor low level position, but the standard for SCOTUS should be much higher. That this victim was in therapy as an adult says this was in fact a serious and life-disturbing incident and it should not be brushed under the rug.

                    If Franken could be kicked out of the Senate for putting his hand on a woman's butt, why should Kavanaugh, with worse allegations, be given a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the USA?
                    Kavanaugh doesn't have a victim, he has a false accuser.

                    Kavanaugh stated he hasn't a clue of the claim!

                    You don't see any other connection to the allegations?

                    Possibly you are blinded by liberal sun glasses?

                    37 years ago, he or possibly one of a number of guy's, possibly it was in 1982 I'm not sure?

                    The claim would make for a "G" rated Disney movie!

                    Big Smiles, the democrats want Kavanaugh, but the timing should have been months ago!
                    Last edited by Truth7t7; 09-17-18, 02:27 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by vibise View Post

                      A DUI is different from a physical attack on another person.

                      At this point in time, women are coming forward to make clear that we should not be subject to groping on buses, other public places or workplaces. We should not be subject to sexually explicit catcalls while walking down the street. Men are not entitled to do this by virtue of being men, and should be held to account for such assaults.

                      Pretty much all women have been subjected to this mistreatment and worse, as was described by Kavanaugh's victim.

                      We are insisting that the men who engage in such actions be held to account. An incident that occurred in high school might be excused for a minor low level position, but the standard for SCOTUS should be much higher. That this victim was in therapy as an adult says this was in fact a serious and life-disturbing incident and it should not be brushed under the rug.

                      If Franken could be kicked out of the Senate for putting his hand on a woman's butt, why should Kavanaugh, with worse allegations, be given a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the USA?
                      His alleged victim. Oh I forgot, if it is a conservative you don’t like (that might be an oxymoron) the person is guilty until
                      proven innocent. If this were a liberal being considered, you would be singing a different tune, innocent until
                      proven guilty.
                      One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present. Golda Meir
                      Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

                      Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

                      Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                      as long as there is life, there is hope.

                      what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                        Or hinders, depending on your side of the fence
                        Indeed
                        One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present. Golda Meir
                        Fundies say the darndest things - simplicio

                        Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.

                        Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

                        as long as there is life, there is hope.

                        what unites us is stronger than what divides us...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by vibise View Post

                          A DUI is different from a physical attack on another person.

                          At this point in time, women are coming forward to make clear that we should not be subject to groping on buses, other public places or workplaces. We should not be subject to sexually explicit catcalls while walking down the street. Men are not entitled to do this by virtue of being men, and should be held to account for such assaults.

                          Pretty much all women have been subjected to this mistreatment and worse, as was described by Kavanaugh's victim.

                          We are insisting that the men who engage in such actions be held to account. An incident that occurred in high school might be excused for a minor low level position, but the standard for SCOTUS should be much higher. That this victim was in therapy as an adult says this was in fact a serious and life-disturbing incident and it should not be brushed under the rug.

                          If Franken could be kicked out of the Senate for putting his hand on a woman's butt, why should Kavanaugh, with worse allegations, be given a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the USA?
                          All you need now vibise is some actual evidence this assault actually occured. Or is this the Duke lacrosse thing all over again.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                            I make no claims as to the truth of the allegation of sexual assault being leveled at Judge Brett Kavanaugh. Like many, I find the timing of the release of the allegation suspicious. But I also find reasonable the idea that the alleged victim did not want to make such a charge until she felt it was necessary in order to stop his appointment to the Supreme Court. I don't know if the allegation is true or not, and am glad I am not charged with determining it.

                            But I'd like to address a different angle - for the purposes of the thread, let's assume the allegation is true, and please, don't discuss in here whether or not it is true. We'll assume it is, just for the sake of this thread, so we can explore another angle.

                            So (again, for the purposes of this thread), Judge Kavanaugh, 36 years ago, when he was 17, had been drinking and was 'very drunk'. He (or a friend, or both) pushed a 15 year old female into a bedroom, where Kavanaugh pinned her to the bed and groped her, trying to remove her clothing and a one-piece bathing suit underneath. She tried to scream, and Kavanaugh held his hand over her mouth. She eventually managed to get free and escape.

                            Now, given that the above happened (again, for the purposes of this thread - I am making no judgement as to the truth of the allegation) - should it affect his nomination to the Supreme Court? Should someone who did this 36 years ago automatically be not entitled to serve on the Supreme Court? Or is it so far ago - with no hint of anything remotely similar since - that it should have no bearing? And is it enough to affect his existing appointment (Judgehood, if that's a word)?

                            Legally, if it had come to light at the time, presumably he would have been charged - would his record have been expunged when he turned 18? I don't know - perhaps someone else does?

                            Could how the law would have treated him at the time influence his ruling on the law today?

                            Are we getting to to the point where if you want to hold public office, you better not have done a single thing wrong in your entire life? DUI at 19? Forget it. You'll never serve. Peed against a wall on the way home from a concert when you were 17? Not a chance you'll ever get it. Is that what we want? Are we in danger of ruling good people who made a stupid mistake out of positions where they might have done a wonderful job?
                            I'd have to review the evidence and would have some questions. Why did she wait so long, how did she get in the room, how did she get into the house, why was she there, is there another witness to the alleged act, itself, is she a political activist, who leaked the story, is the age of both correctly defined as high school, was the alleged act premeditated, where did the ropes come from, how did she get away, who did she tell at the time, what did Kavanaugh say to anyone at the time? If women cannot be held accountable for consent when drunk, how can males be held accountable when they are drunk. Just some questions.
                            “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite."-Madison

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Maxmus View Post

                              I'd have to review the evidence and would have some questions. Why did she wait so long, how did she get in the room, how did she get into the house, why was she there, is there another witness to the alleged act, itself, is she a political activist, who leaked the story, is the age of both correctly defined as high school, was the alleged act premeditated, where did the ropes come from, how did she get away, who did she tell at the time, what did Kavanaugh say to anyone at the time? If women cannot be held accountable for consent when drunk, how can males be held accountable when they are drunk. Just some questions.
                              What was a 15 year old girl drinking and thinking hanging out with 17 yr old that had been drinking?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vibise View Post

                                A DUI is different from a physical attack on another person.

                                At this point in time, women are coming forward
                                Like Asia Argento?
                                A forum liberal
                                "When you claimed black people were raped, wasn't that racist? I'd say so."

                                Comment

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