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Freedom to be openly gay, does not mean freedom from consequences

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  • Freedom to be openly gay, does not mean freedom from consequences

    Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
    You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

    All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
    -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
    -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet


  • #2
    Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
    Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
    You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
    You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

    All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
    the battle for equal rights for the LGBT community is ongoing.

    It is fortunate that in a growing number of states that the hate based discrimination you list is now illegal

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
      Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
      You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

      All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
      gads, man

      You are really making your side look bad.

      Just replace “gay” with black or Jewish.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
        Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

        You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
        You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
        You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
        You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
        You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
        You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

        All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
        And...

        you can have the freedom to be discriminatory towards gays, and have others:
        Put pressure on your boss to fire you.
        Have your boss fire you.
        Have your business put out of business due to boycotts, protests, and lawsuits.

        You can have the freedom to be discriminatory, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
        "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." - Thomas Paine - THE AGE OF REASON

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by backup View Post

          gads, man

          You are really making your side look bad.

          Just replace “gay” with black or Jewish.
          The OP can be considered a two-way street though. Free to discriminate against gays, but others are free to discriminate against you for discriminating against gays (or whatever group is in question). But I bet the right wing would howl against THAT.
          "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." - Thomas Paine - THE AGE OF REASON

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
            Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

            You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
            You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
            You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
            You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
            You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
            You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

            All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
            The same applies to being heterosexual or democrat or republican or left handed. Bullies will find something to be a bullly about.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
              Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

              You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
              You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
              You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
              You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
              You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
              You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

              All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
              God says== There will be no sexual perversion in the kingdom of God!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SilverBear View Post

                the battle for equal rights for the LGBT community is ongoing.

                It is fortunate that in a growing number of states that the hate based discrimination you list is now illegal
                Why the need for laws. The LGBT comminity is perfectly free to be openly gay, are they not? Just because society can punish them for being openly gay doesn't mean their freedom is squashed. Only the government action can take away that freedom.
                “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
                -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

                It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
                -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by backup View Post

                  gads, man

                  You are really making your side look bad.

                  Just replace “gay” with black or Jewish.
                  Do you think it's possible to have those realities, and still have Freedom to be openly gay?
                  “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
                  -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

                  It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
                  -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bob1 View Post
                    And...

                    you can have the freedom to be discriminatory towards gays, and have others:
                    Put pressure on your boss to fire you.
                    Have your boss fire you.
                    Have your business put out of business due to boycotts, protests, and lawsuits.

                    You can have the freedom to be discriminatory, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
                    So, does a person have freedom to be openly gay under the reality that I posted?
                    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
                    -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

                    It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
                    -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robert4818 View Post
                      Freedom to be openly gay only means that the government cannot punish you for being openly gay.

                      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
                      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have your boss to fire you for being openly gay.
                      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are openly gay.
                      You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are openly gay.
                      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for being openly gay.
                      You can be free to be openly gay, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

                      All of those are merely consequences for being openly gay. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.
                      Freedom to wear a MAGA hat only means that the government cannot punish you for wearing a MAGA hat.

                      You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                      You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have your boss to fire you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                      You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are wearing a MAGA hat.
                      You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are wearing a MAGA hat.
                      You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                      You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

                      All of those are merely consequences for wearing a MAGA hat. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.

                      And your point was?
                      The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robert4818 View Post

                        Why the need for laws.
                        because there are sad, hateful, sick people who do discriminate, people who would refuse to sell merchandise because of someone's skin color or refuse to rent an apartment to someone they thought might be Jewish.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robert4818 View Post

                          Why the need for laws. The LGBT comminity is perfectly free to be openly gay, are they not? Just because society can punish them for being openly gay doesn't mean their freedom is squashed. Only the government action can take away that freedom.
                          The same reason we have anti-discrimination laws protecting other minorities. There are still pockets of ignorance and big-otry which would unfairly harm those minorities and by doing so harm all of society. Our population is much more educated than it ever was in the past and has recognized hateful prejudices as detrimental to a peaceful functioning society.

                          That's why.
                          "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tim H View Post

                            The same reason we have anti-discrimination laws protecting other minorities. There are still pockets of ignorance and big-otry which would unfairly harm those minorities and by doing so harm all of society. Our population is much more educated than it ever was in the past and has recognized hateful prejudices as detrimental to a peaceful functioning society.

                            That's why.
                            Do they still not have freedom to be openly gay?
                            “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
                            -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

                            It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
                            -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rossum View Post

                              Freedom to wear a MAGA hat only means that the government cannot punish you for wearing a MAGA hat.

                              You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society pressure your boss to fire you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                              You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have your boss to fire you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                              You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society try to drive you out of business because you are wearing a MAGA hat.
                              You can be free, and have society still decide that you have no right to being financially secure because you are wearing a MAGA hat.
                              You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have shops refuse to sell to you for wearing a MAGA hat.
                              You can be free to wear a MAGA hat, and still have society decide that they don't want to rent or sell you a home.

                              All of those are merely consequences for wearing a MAGA hat. You still have all the freedom you want, you just have to be willing to face the consequences.

                              And your point was?
                              Do you believe that the openly gay person has freedom to be openly gay?
                              “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
                              -Mahatma Gandhi quotes (Indian Philosopher, internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest, 1869-1948)

                              It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
                              -Sherlock Holmes in A study in Scarlet

                              Comment

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