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Keepers and Rejects

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  • Keepers and Rejects

    .
    I ran across an interesting story on YouTube recently. It's about a man who grew up in a Christian home and attended a Christian church. He believed that Jesus Christ died for his sins and rose again. He believed in the Spirit birth about which Jesus spoke in John 3:3-8. He was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and he prayed to Jesus, confessing his sins on a regular basis. He had the assurance of his salvation and sincerely believed had eternal life,

    Today that same man is an Atheist; and even though he explained why, it still puzzled me that an apparently born-again Christian could lose so much faith in Christ and the Bible.

    But I had overlooked the fine print in something Jesus taught; which goes like this:

    "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37)

    The man had come to Jesus; but apparently was not among those whom the Father had given him; therefore Jesus could not promise to take the man on permanently in accordance with his Father's will.

    "I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all that He has given me" (John 6:38-39)

    I attended a Billy Graham crusade in San Diego back in August of 1976 and was frankly surprised at the large number of people coming forward that night to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Well, looking back; I am now very curious to know how many of those that came forward were selected to join the fortunate ones that the Father gives to His son for safekeeping because anybody with a mind to can come to Jesus, but not all who do so are taken on.

    "Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)

    "Be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you" (2Pet 1:10)
    _

  • #2
    There are two ways to view this, depending on one's soteriology.

    Those on the volitionalist or synergist side of soteriology will simply say he made choices, one of them was to either consciously reject Christ or to choose through inaction to fall away from Christ. He was saved but is saved no longer.

    The monergist is going to respond with either s/he was never saved; s/he possessed only the artifices or appearance of salvation (no matter how sincerely he may imagine sincerity to be sincere), or s/he was saved and remains saved even in this state of denial and fruitlessness.



    The problem is that both sides are stuck not knowing for sure because God is the only one who knows anyone's eternal disposition.



    We may have some externally observable behaviors that correlate to salvation upon which we can guess or assert probability but that is not definitive. Or we might ask this person some questions to see what their prior understand was or wasn't because anyone who was saved ought to be able to answer some basic questions about God, or Jesus, or his/her salvation and when they don't or won't or can't then we have some evidence confirming the lack of salvation despite the sincere claim of sincerity of faith. This is especially true of anyone laying claim to all the bona fides listed in this op.


    Note, for example, a subtle distinction: The op states this individual "believed in the Spirit birth...," which is a great belief but it is not the same as having the Spirit birth. A person can believe in it and not have it. A person can even believe s/he has it and still not have it. Believing is not having. Jesus made this quite clear in Matthew 7:23.

    But try to tell that individual what I've just posted. More often then not you'll receive angry vilifying rancorous ad hominem and not humble willingness to learn and be more.

    Which response do you think is indicative of a life once saved or sincerely devoted to God even if it was only in the flesh?
    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

    if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. (2 Tim. 2:5)

    Comment


    • #3
      op, Maybe, "the man had come to Jesus" was what it looked like, but not what had happened. (as most often is the case in 'krusaides', etc )


      The false gospel(s) are so popular, like deskribed in the op, the krusades deceived people so much, later thay be more diffikult to save.

      In towns researchers went to a year after a krusade, they usually found not one of those who 'raised their hand' and 'came forward' were 'Kristian' any longer.... it was just for show.

      The enemy has not just put 'kink's" and "kooks" in the system - the system is "kink's and kooks" ! and only "a few find the narrow road to LIFE (JESUS) " as God's Word Says Clearly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Whatever the soteriology one views this man's situation from, it seems the man's convictions did not go deep enough to withstand whatever caused him to deny Christ.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
          .
          I ran across an interesting story on YouTube recently. It's about a man who grew up in a Christian home and attended a Christian church. He believed that Jesus Christ died for his sins and rose again. He believed in the Spirit birth about which Jesus spoke in John 3:3-8. He was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and he prayed to Jesus, confessing his sins on a regular basis. He had the assurance of his salvation and sincerely believed had eternal life,

          Today that same man is an Atheist; and even though he explained why, it still puzzled me that an apparently born-again Christian could lose so much faith in Christ and the Bible.

          But I had overlooked the fine print in something Jesus taught; which goes like this:

          "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37)

          The man had come to Jesus; but apparently was not among those whom the Father had given him; therefore Jesus could not promise to take the man on permanently in accordance with his Father's will.

          "I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all that He has given me" (John 6:38-39)

          I attended a Billy Graham crusade in San Diego back in August of 1976 and was frankly surprised at the large number of people coming forward that night to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Well, looking back; I am now very curious to know how many of those that came forward were selected to join the fortunate ones that the Father gives to His son for safekeeping because anybody with a mind to can come to Jesus, but not all who do so are taken on.

          "Many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt 22:14)

          "Be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you" (2Pet 1:10)
          _
          Receiving Jesus as Lord is only the beginning. We are to then study the Scriptures to find out who we have become. Failure to do this usually results in a person regressing to their former state.

          John 15:5-6
          "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

          Rom 11:17-22
          17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

          22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
          NIV

          2 Peter 2:20-22
          If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing* our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known* the way of righteousness, than to have known* it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."
          *knowing, known. full discernment, exact knowledge.
          Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

          Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

          Comment


          • #6
            .
            One of the faults that Atheists find with deistic religions like Christianity is that they are essentially unproven; ergo: insensible and unreasonable.

            I believe that is a normal response.

            "A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them" (1 Cor 2:13-14)

            However; the Spirit birth about which Christ spoke in John 3:3-8 is supposed to remedy the Atheist's skepticism

            "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words." (1Cor 2:12-14)

            Now, when a supposedly born-again Christian is thinking like an Atheist, I think we have to assume that Christian-- though they say otherwise --has not yet, nor ever has, undergone the Spirit birth spoken of by Jesus at John 3:3-8.
            _

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