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How were those before Jesus saved?

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  • Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Understanding is as varied as there is people on the planet, but once has receieved from God His Spirit, which is His mind, His disposition, as your own then one will see that the kingdom of God is within you and does not come with observation as most are seeking as in streets of gold or a lake of fire or hades. All of those things is only a metaphor for who you are today and you live in one or the other this day. You live in sin that comes from your own will or you live in righteousness that comes by God be your life. An afterlife is a non issue in Christ.
    So you think the abyss is a metaphor. And you think New Jerusalem is a metaphor. Or the lake of fire is a Metaphor. 'after Life...' ?


    as Joel writes [literally, with not one metaphor] God will destroy this depraved world:

    A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

    Hopefully soon.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
      I was asked this yesterday, the answer I gave is They were/are judged on the knowledge and behaivor (Romans 2:15). I pointed to the hall of faith Hebrews 11 as an example of those who got saved.

      What answer would you all give?
      Christ is risen from the dead,
      Trampling down death by death,
      And upon those in the tombs
      Bestowing life!

      Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered; let those who hate Him flee from before His face (Ps. 68:1)
      As smoke vanishes, so let them vanish; as wax melts before the fire (Ps. 68:2a)
      So the sinners will perish before the face of God; but let the righteous be glad (Ps. 68:2b)
      This is the day which the Lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it. (Ps. 118:24)
      In accordance with the Apostolic faith delivered to us by tradition from the Fathers, I have delivered the tradition, without inventing anything extraneous to it. What I have learned, that I inscribed, comfortably with the Holy Scriptures

      Comment


      • Originally posted by krisjordan View Post
        After having received God's gift of grace...
        (= Forgiveness, Salvation, Justification, Eternal Life, Indwelling Holy Spirit, Redemption, Righteousness)
        (Ephesians 2:8-9; Ephesians 1:7-8; Colossians 2:13-14; Colossians 1:13-14; Titus 2:11-14; Acts 10:43; Romans 5:1-2; Philippians 3:8b-9; 1 John 5:11-13)
        Originally posted by newbirth View Post
        this is where you are giving your opinion ...the grace of God is extended to all men whether they receive it or not...Christ died for all...However salvation forgiveness justification holy spirit...ect is for those who are obedient to the word of faith preached to them...
        .
        John 5:10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.” 11 But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’” 12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” 13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place.

        Acts 10: 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
        43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

        Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

        Ephesians 1 :6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

        Ephesians 2:. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

        Colossians 2 :11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

        Titus 2: 10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. 12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

        Philippians 2: 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
        All Scriptures from ESV

        No, she is NOT giving her mere opinion; she is telling you what is in Scripture and all I did is to make a list of them in context, and in order.

        Should you want to dismiss all of those, then there is a legitimate question about your allegiance to Scripture in its context.




        MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

        1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

        2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

        3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

        4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







        Comment


        • Originally posted by john t View Post
          [U]


          .
          John 5:10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.” 11 But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’” 12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” 13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place.

          Acts 10: 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
          43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

          Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

          Ephesians 1 :6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

          Ephesians 2:. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

          Colossians 2 :11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

          Titus 2: 10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. 12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

          Philippians 2: 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
          All Scriptures from ESV

          No, she is NOT giving her mere opinion; she is telling you what is in Scripture and all I did is to make a list of them in context, and in order.

          Should you want to dismiss all of those, then there is a legitimate question about your allegiance to Scripture in its context.



          Bro you quoted the scriptures I agree with the scriptures....I disagree with comments that are opinions based on what someone thinks the scriptures means

          Comment


          • Originally posted by e v e View Post

            So you think the abyss is a metaphor. And you think New Jerusalem is a metaphor. Or the lake of fire is a Metaphor. 'after Life...' ?


            as Joel writes [literally, with not one metaphor] God will destroy this depraved world:

            A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

            Hopefully soon.
            The after life is of no concern, it is who we are today God is interested in. And He did destroy this depraved world in all who has receieved that new one. You are still looking at it in carnality, flesh and not seeing the spiritual context. All who is born of God has gone through that fire and has burned up all the old things of sin, doubt, rejection, and we come our of that fire that is refining pure, holy, righteous, without sin, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

            You are not connecting the dots, you are looking at what happens to your flesh man only, which has noting at all to do with the Spirit man. You havent learned that God is a Spirit, His kingdom is Spirit, everything about Him is Spirit.

            Try and see if you can the Eden Jesus was in for 30 years in Bethlehem but when God came to Him and opened His heaven to him by His Spirit, all hell broke loose for him in Jerusalem, and for the last three years of his life trials and tribulation was the norm for him, he faced scandals, hatred, false accusations, and death, he was in a desolate wilderness all alone, no pace to lay his head. He came out of Eden and stepped right into Gods fire just as we all do who receive from God the very same.

            You see that lake of fire as a physical burning torture instead of a place where we are cleansed and all unrighteousness is cast into it never to be remembered anymore. You are missing the whole point of Jesus Christ messages, The kingdom of God does not come with observation, heaven or hell is within you.

            You cant relate to that can you, for it is obvious in your theology concerning the flesh man and what happens to it. Do you really think Jesus was concerned about his flesh man and what happens to it? NO' his concern was what happens in the spirit man this is the place God resides. Try and shift your thinking from flesh to Spirit and God will come to you just as He came to Jesus and open up all of His heaven to you just as He did in Jesus no different at all. .


            God is not trying to save us from a lake of fire, He is trying to get us to go through it for this is where we are cast in and all unrighteousness is burned up. Walk as He walks in His same light and see this fire, hell, hades, and salvation right out of it. Yes it all is a metaphor for the flesh man converted to spirit man and what happens by His Spirit be your own. Consider Him in His way which is Spirit if you can.

            The grave is not going to reveal God to anyone, if you cant see Him now in that death to the man in carnality, and without that sacrifice of that flesh man, and the resurrection of the Spirit man, what makes you think you will see Him when you are physically dead? It is to late by then to know Him. And Im not talking about knowing who He is supposed to be by reading a book, but knowing Him one on one, personal and intimate, He in you and you in Him as one just as Jesus prayed to God for you to be in John 17 as he was one in Him. Is that confirmation missing because reading your posts about hell and all pertaining to the flesh man indicates you haven't met Him. .

            God is not out to make me a good person, He is out to make me exactly like Himself ... Which simply is Holy Love, His Spirit is Love and it does not come with observation, it is within you and obvious you have not got His simple message of yet.
            The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by newbirth View Post

              Bro you quoted the scriptures I agree with the scriptures....I disagree with comments that are opinions based on what someone thinks the scriptures means
              This is what you posted about her references:

              Originally posted by newbirth View Post

              this is where you are giving your opinion ...the grace of God is extended to all men whether they receive it or not...Christ died for all...However salvation forgiveness justification holy spirit...ect is for those who are obedient to the word of faith preached to them...
              So exactly where does Scripture end, and her opinion begin?
              MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

              1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

              2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

              3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

              4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







              Comment


              • Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

                The after life is of no concern, it is who we are today God is interested in. And He did destroy this depraved world in all who has receieved that new one. You are still looking at it in carnality, flesh and not seeing the spiritual context. All who is born of God has gone through that fire and has burned up all the old things of sin, doubt, rejection, and we come our of that fire that is refining pure, holy, righteous, without sin, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

                You are not connecting the dots, you are looking at what happens to your flesh man only, which has noting at all to do with the Spirit man. You havent learned that God is a Spirit, His kingdom is Spirit, everything about Him is Spirit.

                Try and see if you can the Eden Jesus was in for 30 years in Bethlehem but when God came to Him and opened His heaven to him by His Spirit, all hell broke loose for him in Jerusalem, and for the last three years of his life trials and tribulation was the norm for him, he faced scandals, hatred, false accusations, and death, he was in a desolate wilderness all alone, no pace to lay his head. He came out of Eden and stepped right into Gods fire just as we all do who receive from God the very same.

                You see that lake of fire as a physical burning torture instead of a place where we are cleansed and all unrighteousness is cast into it never to be remembered anymore. You are missing the whole point of Jesus Christ messages, The kingdom of God does not come with observation, heaven or hell is within you.

                You cant relate to that can you, for it is obvious in your theology concerning the flesh man and what happens to it. Do you really think Jesus was concerned about his flesh man and what happens to it? NO' his concern was what happens in the spirit man this is the place God resides. Try and shift your thinking from flesh to Spirit and God will come to you just as He came to Jesus and open up all of His heaven to you just as He did in Jesus no different at all. .


                God is not trying to save us from a lake of fire, He is trying to get us to go through it for this is where we are cast in and all unrighteousness is burned up. Walk as He walks in His same light and see this fire, hell, hades, and salvation right out of it. Yes it all is a metaphor for the flesh man converted to spirit man and what happens by His Spirit be your own. Consider Him in His way which is Spirit if you can.

                The grave is not going to reveal God to anyone, if you cant see Him now in that death to the man in carnality, and without that sacrifice of that flesh man, and the resurrection of the Spirit man, what makes you think you will see Him when you are physically dead? It is to late by then to know Him. And Im not talking about knowing who He is supposed to be by reading a book, but knowing Him one on one, personal and intimate, He in you and you in Him as one just as Jesus prayed to God for you to be in John 17 as he was one in Him. Is that confirmation missing because reading your posts about hell and all pertaining to the flesh man indicates you haven't met Him. .

                God is not out to make me a good person, He is out to make me exactly like Himself ... Which simply is Holy Love, His Spirit is Love and it does not come with observation, it is within you and obvious you have not got His simple message of yet.
                where on earth did you get the idea i 'care' what happens to the flesh?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by john t View Post



                  So exactly where does Scripture end, and her opinion begin?
                  Can't you tell?

                  Is it because you cannot supply the scriptural principles
                  by which you should have discerned
                  that there are no tares in the canon?
                  Luke admits to holding an opinion based upon appearances,
                  which may be significantly different from reality (Luke 1:3).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by john t View Post

                    This is what you posted about her references:



                    So exactly where does Scripture end, and her opinion begin?
                    Do you have a bible??? Scriptures end when you stop quoting them....and opinion begin when you you replace the scriptures with what you think it means....the original meaning must be maintained in the paraphrasing or commenting of scriptures....

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                      Do you have a bible??? Scriptures end when you stop quoting them....and opinion begin when you you replace the scriptures with what you think it means....the original meaning must be maintained in the paraphrasing or commenting of scriptures....
                      .
                      Irrelevant.

                      Having a Bible or Bibles is not the issue. Believing what is in them is the main issue here. From what you and other similar-believing posters here posted inclnation s to state that you DO NOT believe what the Bible says.

                      Originally posted by krisjordan View Post
                      After having received God's gift of grace...
                      (= Forgiveness, Salvation, Justification, Eternal Life, Indwelling Holy Spirit, Redemption, Righteousness)
                      (Ephesians 2:8-9; Ephesians 1:7-8; Colossians 2:13-14; Colossians 1:13-14; Titus 2:11-14; Acts 10:43; Romans 5:1-2; Philippians 3:8b-9; 1 John 5:11-13)
                      In a pseudo answer to her synopsis statements, you posted this:


                      Originally posted by newbirth View Post

                      this is where you are giving your opinion ...the grace of God is extended to all men whether they receive it or not...Christ died for all...However salvation forgiveness justification holy spirit...ect is for those who are obedient to the word of faith preached to them
                      ...

                      You have done NOTHING to demonstrate exactly where she was "giving opinion" or making a wrong assumption. All you are doing is pettifogging, and not providing any proofs of your vacuous accusations.

                      Strangely, when I posted the verses in context, you agreed with them, but you still not have identified where the other poster stopped with Scripture and gave opinion. Therefore, I uege you to cease carping about non-existent "erroneous" opinions and deal with what the Bible says. she was not wrong; all she did is provide one word summary statements.
                      MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                      1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                      2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                      3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                      4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                        this is where you are giving your opinion ...the grace of God is extended to all men whether they receive it or not...Christ died for all...However salvation forgiveness justification holy spirit...ect is for those who are obedient to the word of faith preached to them...
                        This is not opinion, this is the gospel. Yes, God’s grace is available to all because Jesus died for the sins of the entire world -- but not everyone accepts/receives that free gift personally (whereas it is applied to their account, so-to-speak) without placing their faith in Jesus for what He accomplished on the cross for them personally. Salvation is not universal to where everyone ends up being saved, if that is what you are suggesting. What is your definition of “obedience to the word of faith preached to them?”


                        Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                        What is placing faith????there is no such quote in the scriptures.....the scriptures speak about obedience to the faith....
                        This refers to us actually believing/trusting Jesus for what He provided for us individually on the cross when He died for our sin. This is spoken of all throughout the Scriptures. Then we obey the Lord because we love Him and have been saved, not in order to become saved.


                        Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                        ...neither does it say that salvation is imparted to us...here is what the scriptures say...we are saved by grace through faith.......and the goodness of God leads us to repentance
                        Salvation is a 2-part equation = There is God’s part (which is His gift of grace/forgiveness/salvation that He makes available to all people everywhere) and there is our part (whereas we must believe Him for what He has provided for us). God has already done His part and is always ready to impart His gift of salvation to anyone who would call on Him for it by faith, but each person has to decide to receive it personally by faith in order for it to ever become theirs. That is why Scripture says, “For by grace (=God’s part) you have been saved through faith (= our part), and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Think of it like a Christmas present. I can buy you a gift, wrap it up and put it under the tree. It’s absolutely free and available and you don’t have to work for it whatsoever -- but it never becomes yours personally until you actually accept it by taking possession of it. This is how it works with salvation. God is the one who provides it, but we have to receive it by faith before it ever becomes ours personally, since God does not credit it to our account without faith.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by john t View Post

                          .
                          Irrelevant.

                          Having a Bible or Bibles is not the issue. Believing what is in them is the main issue here. From what you and other similar-believing posters here posted inclnation s to state that you DO NOT believe what the Bible says.

                          In a pseudo answer to her synopsis statements, you posted this:


                          ...

                          You have done NOTHING to demonstrate exactly where she was "giving opinion" or making a wrong assumption. All you are doing is pettifogging, and not providing any proofs of your vacuous accusations.

                          Strangely, when I posted the verses in context, you agreed with them, but you still not have identified where the other poster stopped with Scripture and gave opinion. Therefore, I uege you to cease carping about non-existent "erroneous" opinions and deal with what the Bible says. she was not wrong; all she did is provide one word summary statements.
                          Thanks for your help and defense. I still can't quite figure out how, when one merely relays or summarizes the clear, plain meaning of a verse or biblical doctrine/truth, it suddenly becomes one's "opinion" and not what the Scripture is proclaiming/teaching/illustrating/declaring. Maybe because to some, using different words (other than what is in the exact verse) to describe the exact same truth renders it "unbiblical?" That's what I'm tending to lean toward, especially when they seem to be adamant about believing "quoted scripture" only. Hmmm...kind of a scary position because when I think of what happens in biblically sound churches, preaching and teaching the Word is more than just quoting a bunch of bible passages.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by krisjordan View Post

                            Thanks for your help and defense. I still can't quite figure out how, when one merely relays or summarizes the clear, plain meaning of a verse or biblical doctrine/truth, it suddenly becomes one's "opinion" and not what the Scripture is proclaiming/teaching/illustrating/declaring. Maybe because to some, using different words (other than what is in the exact verse) to describe the exact same truth renders it "unbiblical?" That's what I'm tending to lean toward, especially when they seem to be adamant about believing "quoted scripture" only. Hmmm...kind of a scary position because when I think of what happens in biblically sound churches, preaching and teaching the Word is more than just quoting a bunch of bible passages.
                            Ok sis here is the thing...you made a statement saying...after having received God's gift of grace....please explain ...(1)when does someone receive God's grace.????....(2)who have not received God's grace yet ??? (3) how do you suppose someone receives God's grace .....please refer to Titus 2:11

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by krisjordan View Post
                              This is not opinion, this is the gospel
                              If it is then you have rewritten the scriptures


                              . Yes, God’s grace is available to all because Jesus died for the sins of the entire world --
                              correct so then all men have received grace


                              but not everyone accepts/receives that free gift personally
                              nonetheless it's theirs and it is free....
                              Having a brain and not using it doesn't mean you don't have a brain....
                              (whereas it is applied to their account, so-to-speak)
                              what is applied to their account....and where exactly is that in the scriptures????
                              without placing their faith in Jesus for what He accomplished on the cross for them personally.
                              what is placing your faith in Jesus????

                              Salvation is not universal to where everyone ends up being saved, if that is what you are suggesting.
                              I never suggested that...but the grace of God is universal and applicable to all men
                              What is your definition of “obedience to the word of faith preached to them?”
                              there is no definition it already says what it means

                              This refers to us actually believing/trusting Jesus for what He provided for us individually on the cross when He died for our sin. This is spoken of all throughout the Scriptures. Then we obey the Lord because we love Him and have been saved, not in order to become saved.
                              that is nonsense...faith comes by hearing the word of God....
                              those who hear and obey receive the gift of the holy spirit that was promised....

                              Salvation is a 2-part equation = There is God’s part (which is His gift of grace/forgiveness/salvation that He makes available to all people everywhere) and there is our part (whereas we must believe Him for what He has provided for us). God has already done His part and is always ready to impart His gift of salvation to anyone who would call on Him for it by faith, but each person has to decide to receive it personally by faith in order for it to ever become theirs. That is why Scripture says, “For by grace (=God’s part) you have been saved through faith (= our part), and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Think of it like a Christmas present. I can buy you a gift, wrap it up and put it under the tree. It’s absolutely free and available and you don’t have to work for it whatsoever -- but it never becomes yours personally until you actually accept it by taking possession of it. This is how it works with salvation. God is the one who provides it, but we have to receive it by faith before it ever becomes ours personally, since God does not credit it to our account without faith.
                              rubbish....it's all God....God gives grace and God gives a measure of faith...that faith comes by hearing the word of God....when you obey the word that you heard....repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the holy spirit....God then gives you the holy spirit which is the power of God....if you follow the spirit you shall be saved....

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                              • Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                                Ok sis here is the thing...you made a statement saying...after having received God's gift of grace....please explain ...(1)when does someone receive God's grace.????.... how do you suppose someone receives God's grace .....please refer to Titus 2:11
                                (When = When we believe)
                                (How = Through belief/faith)

                                God’s gift of grace (aka: salvation, forgiveness, eternal life, justification, righteousness, etc...) is received the moment we believe/trust Jesus Christ for what He accomplished on the cross when He atoned for our sin. (I will limit the number of verses quoted for the sake of space).
                                • For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
                                • Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)
                                • The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Romans 4:23-25 (NIV)
                                • ...so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith; Philippians 3:8b-9 (NASB)
                                • And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13 (NKJV)
                                • But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
                                Titus 2:11 is a reference to the grace of God through Jesus - when God the Father sent His One and Only Son to this earth, (Jesus = God manifested in the flesh), to redeem mankind from their sin by way of the cross.


                                Originally posted by newbirth View Post
                                (2)who have not received God's grace yet ???
                                Those who have not received God’s gift of salvation are those who are spiritually lost because they refuse to believe. (I will limit the number of verses quoted for the sake of space).
                                • The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:35-36 (NJKV)
                                • Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
                                • The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:10-12 (NASB)
                                • And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers.’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.” Luke 13:22-28 (NASB)
                                • Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB)
                                • But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left... Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels’... These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Matthew 25:31-33; 41; 46 (NASB)
                                • For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-for our testimony to you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 (NASB)

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