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Some of Augustine's bizarreness - from his Genesis commentary

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  • the way Calvin draws out his theories of the soul and salvation, in every aspect, makes God to be a total hateful monster. God is not Calvin's imagined demon....God is Love.

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    • Originally posted by e v e View Post
      The problem with calvin's predestination is that it doesn't explain why and how some souls are His and some are not. I don't believe a soul can 'do' anything to be His, that has to do with the fact a soul IS born from His Line. And not the satanic line. But many do not want to admit that satan could have a line, even though scripture mentions satan seed, and discusses the two realms in depth. It's very basic. If you have a daughter or son, and they are trapped in a building, you save them, from pure love, not based on theology but on that they ARE your child. And that is how I understand : we are His Children. yet that is not how Calvin understands predestination, since ironically, he bases it on sins... damnation for sins. Yet how is that to be reconciled with faith alone? My understanding is that of course a child of Him will have faith in Him and want Him...being of Eden nature. But souls who are foreign to Him, will not. It's so very simple and basic.

      It IS true that an adamite soul may be very mixed and living in her carnal Self and not have met Him and be completely deluded. But that in fact will no affect that He will save His children from the burning building. He is Love. As for those others, the sorcerers and cain type souls [Im not talking about bodies, apes, genetics!], rather I refer to satanic type souls : He never knew them.
      A Calvinist would agree if you that no one can do anything to be His. They say God does the electing.
      Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

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      • Originally posted by e v e View Post
        the way Calvin draws out his theories of the soul and salvation, in every aspect, makes God to be a total hateful monster. God is not Calvin's imagined demon....God is Love.
        Yes God is love and out of this love he will chastise and judge. Anyone who does not want him, he will not force to spend eternity with him. Therefore, he has a place for them where they will spend eternity separated from him.

        But do not confuse this love with the way new agers and Oprah Winfrey fanatics do. He is also a God of Judgment.
        Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

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        • Originally posted by e v e View Post
          the way Calvin draws out his theories of the soul and salvation, in every aspect, makes God to be a total hateful monster. God is not Calvin's imagined demon....God is Love.
          And that is the truth !
          The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

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          • Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post

            Yes God is love and out of this love he will chastise and judge. Anyone who does not want him, he will not force to spend eternity with him. Therefore, he has a place for them where they will spend eternity separated from him.

            But do not confuse this love with the way new agers and Oprah Winfrey fanatics do. He is also a God of Judgment.
            And His judgment is not with others, His judgment is who are you and are you like Him.

            Judgment is your own and everyone knows very well if they are like Him as Jesus was like Him or not as He demands we be like Him and in His same image with His same Spirit, mind, walk, light, disposition as that of Him. .
            The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

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            • Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post

              A Calvinist would agree if you that no one can do anything to be His. They say God does the electing.
              I'm not really faith alone though : in the way evangelicals see that.

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              • Originally posted by e v e View Post

                I'm not really faith alone though : in the way evangelicals see that.
                I am not an evangelical and yet I believe in faith alone. Works add nothing to one's salvation. It's all God.
                Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post

                  I am not an evangelical and yet I believe in faith alone. Works add nothing to one's salvation. It's all God.
                  true, works of the carnal man, to try to get to God are pointless

                  But once with Him, a soul can honor Him in all she does. I don't like the faith alone label because it reduces the concept to platitude.

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                  • Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post

                    Yes God is love and out of this love he will chastise and judge. Anyone who does not want him, he will not force to spend eternity with him. Therefore, he has a place for them where they will spend eternity separated from him.

                    But do not confuse this love with the way new agers and Oprah Winfrey fanatics do. He is also a God of Judgment.
                    I certainly don't like the new agers and oprah types okay... But What He Means by Judgment I understand to be, I think anyway, different than you do.


                    Of course He won't force anyone...

                    well...I don't have the same views perhaps..I read the scripture differently on some points... maybe because I see that some souls were never His since He did not create them...
                    and those, of course, have no interest in Him... And then there are those who are deluded, yet, He created, adamite souls...and they He is most gentle with.

                    This ties in with the mistaken rapture theories propagated by many since Darby.

                    THe belief, because not understanding who are the 144k, that He will abandon souls after the Change, those who did not accept Him because being so mixed. There a reason for why they are so mixed, and He already paid their price. During tribulation He will gather them, and give them their resurrected being... He does not abandon His children...who if indeed they are helpless, then, they are not to blame for being mixed.

                    Blame and Grace really arent the same. Blame is based on works, and something we can do. If in fact we are helpless, and that's why He came and died...because we are...then He is the one who rescues us...and blame is not involved. Sin is no longer the topic since He came and died for our sins and paid that price. He already knows we cannot 'unmix' ourselves...and that only He can lift us out of this realm we fell to.

                    Comment


                    • Adamite souls who do not get to the Change, are not and will not be abandoned by Him. He will go to all His millions during the Change and rescue them.

                      There is not 'oh we got swept up to the air and now we go off to heaven and too bad for all the mixed ones.' That is an altered version in my opinion, a intentional vicious alteration of His return .

                      A version the high priests would have just loved, since they really did despise all those poor mixed ones in the time of Christ, who yet understanding very little, and being mixed in their understanding... were open to Him...even if not having 'met' Him.

                      See, that saved formula, I don't buy that either. Either a soul met Him or not. Is in Him or Not.

                      However, the saving and the promise of Abraham is His return, when we are actually in our glorified beings.

                      THAT for me is saved from this realm. Which does not mean I am not with Him and In Him...except I recognize that I still have a carnal body and live in the world created by the prince of the air, the fallen realm, a foreign surroundment.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by e v e View Post

                        I certainly don't like the new agers and oprah types okay... But What He Means by Judgment I understand to be, I think anyway, different than you do.


                        Of course He won't force anyone...

                        well...I don't have the same views perhaps..I read the scripture differently on some points... maybe because I see that some souls were never His since He did not create them...
                        and those, of course, have no interest in Him... And then there are those who are deluded, yet, He created, adamite souls...and they He is most gentle with.

                        This ties in with the mistaken rapture theories propagated by many since Darby.

                        THe belief, because not understanding who are the 144k, that He will abandon souls after the Change, those who did not accept Him because being so mixed. There a reason for why they are so mixed, and He already paid their price. During tribulation He will gather them, and give them their resurrected being... He does not abandon His children...who if indeed they are helpless, then, they are not to blame for being mixed.

                        Blame and Grace really arent the same. Blame is based on works, and something we can do. If in fact we are helpless, and that's why He came and died...because we are...then He is the one who rescues us...and blame is not involved. Sin is no longer the topic since He came and died for our sins and paid that price. He already knows we cannot 'unmix' ourselves...and that only He can lift us out of this realm we fell to.
                        Have you read about God's judgement and wrath in the Scriptures? About the Great White Throne Judgment where the unbelievers (wicked) will stand before Christ and give an account and then they will be tossed in the Lake of Fire with satan and his demons. Many today find this so offensive that they won't teach/believe it. Instead they wrest the scriptures.

                        I beg to differ that God did not create all people. The bible says we are ALL born children of wrath and alienated from God. Which is why Christ came to reconcile us back to God.
                        Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post

                          I am not an evangelical and yet I believe in faith alone. Works add nothing to one's salvation. It's all God.
                          Which faith are you speaking of --
                          1. Having faith in him
                          or
                          2. having His same faith as your own as He demands if we are to be His kingdom, His temple. If you have His faith you will walk as He walks with the same signs following you. That kind of faith produces works = miracles.

                          They are not the same faith.

                          Many has faith in Christ ... but not many has the faith OF Christ.
                          The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

                          Comment


                          • Yes. bump. A perfect example in augustine, an ecf, confusing every meaning with his own Self's carnal reading. And then passing that meaning into various traditions until now many interpret scripture this way..... and think the soul is earthly and the mind is godly.... yet...that is backwards and very platonic. Just like the pagan augustine.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by e v e View Post
                              Yes. bump. A perfect example in augustine, an ecf, confusing every meaning with his own Self's carnal reading. And then passing that meaning into various traditions until now many interpret scripture this way..... and think the soul is earthly and the mind is godly.... yet...that is backwards and very platonic. Just like the pagan augustine.
                              The mind is the soul, it is who we are not what we are.
                              The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

                                The mind is the soul, it is who we are not what we are.
                                I am my soul. Not the natural mind.

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