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Some of Augustine's bizarreness - from his Genesis commentary

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  • #31
    Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

    Eden is not a nature but a testing ground which is our heart.

    It is God who creates our nature with either a carnal or spiritual disposition.

    The tree of good and evil is the carnal mind and that is what Adam and Eve partook of.

    Ron
    Who's nature is Eden's ? God's.

    Eden nature is His nature.

    I've reply in more detail in a day or so, since now I have to be on campus for next three days and focused on the students and their course. I reply soon as I can.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by e v e View Post

      Who's nature is Eden's ? God's.

      Eden nature is His nature.

      I've reply in more detail in a day or so, since now I have to be on campus for next three days and focused on the students and their course. I reply soon as I can.
      Indeed! Which is why Adam and Eve were taken out of the garden of Eden where the tree of life in the garden was restricted until God provided a Savior for them. Thus, Adam who is dead is made alive and is returned to the testing ground which is to have a heart that can produce spiritual fruit.

      Ron

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      • #33
        Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

        Indeed! Which is why Adam and Eve were taken out of the garden of Eden where the tree of life in the garden was restricted until God provided a Savior for them. Thus, Adam who is dead is made alive and is returned to the testing ground which is to have a heart that can produce spiritual fruit.

        Ron
        I don't see how you come to that conclusion?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by e v e View Post

          I don't see how you come to that conclusion?
          That is because you do not think the way I do which is a good thing!

          However, If my conclusion is correct God can direct your way of thinking even from another perspective.

          How many sides to a mountain?

          What side of the mountain do we see God?

          One day we will see God from all sides of the mountains with all the light we need to see him with!

          What is the field that the Sower sowed his seeds in?

          Ron

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

            That is because you do not think the way I do which is a good thing!

            However, If my conclusion is correct God can direct your way of thinking even from another perspective.

            How many sides to a mountain?

            What side of the mountain do we see God?

            One day we will see God from all sides of the mountains with all the light we need to see him with!

            What is the field that the Sower sowed his seeds in?

            Ron
            Everyone who has received Him do see Him as He is, and we become like Him when you do see Him,
            The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

              That is because you do not think the way I do which is a good thing!

              However, If my conclusion is correct God can direct your way of thinking even from another perspective.

              How many sides to a mountain?

              What side of the mountain do we see God?

              One day we will see God from all sides of the mountains with all the light we need to see him with!

              What is the field that the Sower sowed his seeds in?

              Ron
              I guess I'm very literal and don't tend to abstract or spiritual or idealize....

              Adam and eve did not need a savior in the garden. Adam walked and talked with God and they were not separated. Saving from what?

              I'm In my soul, with God. My understanding is very direct and not involving riddles. Fields are often referring to the satanic realm constructs in the underworld, where Eden is captive atm. The elysian fields built atop Eden (see eze. 31). Depending on the exact lines you draw that from I could ponder, and see the original greek. I can't reply to that without a concrete context, otherwise its signatureless.

              perhaps you can explain?
              Last edited by e v e; 02-20-18, 01:30 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by e v e View Post

                I guess I'm very literal and don't tend to abstract or spiritual or idealize....

                Adam and eve did not need a savior in the garden. Adam walked and talked with God and they were not separated. Saving from what?

                I'm In my soul, with God. My understanding is very direct and not involving riddles. Fields are often referring to the satanic realm constructs in the underworld, where Eden is captive atm. The elysian fields built atop Eden (see eze. 31). Depending on the exact lines you draw that from I could ponder, and see the original greek. I can't reply to that without a concrete context, otherwise its signatureless.

                perhaps you can explain?
                Yes, Adam and Eve needed a Savior whether they had sinned or not because they were subject to death from the start.

                Sin is the transgression of the law which means missing the mark of the high calling of God.

                Until the law was given Adam and Eve were not held accountable to how they conducted themselves therefore there was no reckoning for sin with an imposed penalty for it.

                However, that does not mean that Adam and Eve did not have a carnal mind but it was not being fed because there was nothing to arouse their passions until the law came into effect!

                God said that in the day that Adam ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in dying he would surely die. Thus, the law that was for Adam's good was the catalyst for Adam's demise.

                Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

                Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
                It is God's intention that Adam would have to go through contrast to know and understand God in an experiential way.

                Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world was the purpose for God creating Adam in God's image through Adam sinning and going through the death experience which is separation from God and the need for a deliverer and to have a new spiritual nature in Christ.

                Fields regarding the sower sowing seeds is of course our hearts.

                Ron

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                  Yes, Adam and Eve needed a Savior whether they had sinned or not because they were subject to death from the start.

                  Sin is the transgression of the law which means missing the mark of the high calling of God.

                  Until the law was given Adam and Eve were not held accountable to how they conducted themselves therefore there was no reckoning for sin with an imposed penalty for it.

                  However, that does not mean that Adam and Eve did not have a carnal mind but it was not being fed because there was nothing to arouse their passions until the law came into effect!

                  God said that in the day that Adam ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil in dying he would surely die. Thus, the law that was for Adam's good was the catalyst for Adam's demise.



                  It is God's intention that Adam would have to go through contrast to know and understand God in an experiential way.

                  Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world was the purpose for God creating Adam in God's image through Adam sinning and going through the death experience which is separation from God and the need for a deliverer and to have a new spiritual nature in Christ.

                  Fields regarding the sower sowing seeds is of course our hearts.

                  Ron

                  Thank you for commenting Ron.

                  They didn't have any carnal mind...the carnal mind was glued on because the setback of falling from Eden nature.

                  Ponder what means that in Eden they

                  - were in a different physics
                  - were not on this earth
                  - did not die
                  - did not have our type bodies
                  - were in Him and of Eden not satanic nature.



                  Comment


                  • #39
                    The continuous material nature evolution is a satanic lie. Adam did not have a body as ours. Nature obeyed him. Does nature obey humans here? Nature was different, and it was not merely the tree of life etc. causing animals and nature to obey Adam.


                    Eden intervened, and Eden has not the
                    material nature.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by e v e View Post


                      Thank you for commenting Ron.

                      They didn't have any carnal mind...the carnal mind was glued on because the setback of falling from Eden nature.

                      Ponder what means that in Eden they

                      - were in a different physics
                      - were not on this earth
                      - did not die
                      - did not have our type bodies
                      - were in Him and of Eden not satanic nature.


                      You will have yo explain each affirmation but one at a time please and with scriptural support if you can find it.

                      Thanks!

                      I can give you scriptural support for my affirmations but one at a time as well.

                      Ron

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                        You will have yo explain each affirmation but one at a time please and with scriptural support if you can find it.

                        Thanks!

                        I can give you scriptural support for my affirmations but one at a time as well.

                        Ron
                        I'll be at work the next few hours. Feel free to start... except not walls of quotes ..

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I ask that kindly.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by e v e View Post
                            I posted this to apologetics since my views of Genesis are seen as heretical. This topic is about Adam and Eve, not about Augustine per se. I mentioned Augustine to show how very much he has polluted our view of Adam and Eve.

                            And placed the entire context of adam and eve into this physical material plane, which is not where Eden was, and acting as if Adam and Eve were like us, or had these type bodies. Augustine has butchered scripture and has no sense of Eden nature whatsoever.
                            I am not influenced by Augustine or any other person.He cannot butcher the inspired scriptures. Medieval theology is also meaningless.It cannot stand against God's Truth which is his word.

                            I have read Genesis and the rest of God's word. What he has revealed to us. Christians are indwelled by the Holy Spirit who teaches and guides. The H.S. will not leave them in error. Are you guided by and yielded to the H.S.? Or to your own understanding?

                            I stand firm on what I said about Genesis, Adam, Eve, etc because it needs no other interpretation other than exactly what the scripture says. Its actually New Agers who are hung up on Eve being their mother. Eden. Nature. Worshiping trees.

                            You attribute way too much to Adam and Eden Instead of on Jesus Christ and heaven. As I've already said, those who are children of God via faith in the Son, have a heavenly kingdom. I could give all the scriptures for this, but no one's interested.

                            Don't read the scriptures through philosophical, worldly glasses. Gnosis (which some posters on here claim to have) where one believes they have knowledge that most missed, is simply not true. God wants us to know him and his will.

                            We have the nature of God, as we are made in his image and likeness, not Eden nature. Born again Believers will receive glorious bodies like the one Jesus has which can go through doors. It is not Eden nature but far better. Whenever plan A fails, God has plan B and it is always better. Adam was plan A. Jesus is plan B. The new earth will be nothing like Eden. It will be far more beautiful.
                            Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by e v e View Post
                              I ask that kindly.
                              Please refer to an affirmation that you need more of an explanation and I will help including scriptural support with out a wall of quotes!

                              Thanks.

                              Ron

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by e v e View Post

                                My phrasing is that His souls have the Eden nature.
                                Those who belong to God, via their faith in him, have God's nature. It is far better than Eden nature. We have a heavenly kingdom. It is far better than an earthly one.
                                Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

                                Comment

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