Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Some of Augustine's bizarreness - from his Genesis commentary

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Some of Augustine's bizarreness - from his Genesis commentary

    That concept of the soul and spirit in augustine is very platonic, and linked for him in a negative sense, to Eve, and to the feminine. And note, so many many of Augustine's off views have been incorporated to 'christianity' today, in ALL its many factions.

    Many repetitions of his negative view below, can be found in his On Genesis commentaries.
    Augustine has so very mixed up idea of the soul, not even understanding nephesh because so glued onto him is that carnal Self, in ever word he ever wrote!

    Two passages from his commentaries are quite sad. [Well many are, sad because so very unscriptural view.]

    1 - “Except for the purpose of procreation, another man would have been a more suitable companion/or Adam
    Or if it was not for help in producing children that a wife was made for the man, then what other help was she made for? If it was to till the earth together with him. there was as yet no hard toil to need such assistance; and if there had been the need, a male would have made a better help. The same can be said about companionship, should he grow tired of solitude. How much more agreeably, after all, for conviviality and conversation would two male friends live together on equal terms than man and wife? While if it was expedient that one should be in charge and the other should comply. to avoid a clash of wills disturbing the peace of the household, such an arrangement would have been ensured by one being made first, the other later, especially if the latter were created from the former. as the female was in fact created. Or would anyone say that God was only able to make a female from the man’s rib, and not also a male if he so wished? For these reasons I cannot work out what help a wife could have been made to provide the man with, if you take away the purpose of childbearing.”
    Augustine, On Genesis, Book IX, 5.9, p. 380


    2 - "For we must believe that even before her sin woman had been made to be ruled by her husband and to be submissive and subject to him. But we can with reason understand that the servitude meant in these words is that in which there is a condition similar to that of slavery rather than a bond of love (so that the servitude by which men later began to be slaves to other men obviously has its origin in punishment for sin). St. Paul says, Through love serve one another [Gal. 5.13]. But by no means would he say, "Have dominion over one another." Hence married persons through love can serve one another, but St. Paul does not permit a woman to rule over a man. The sentence pronounced by God gave this power rather to man; and it is not by her nature but rather by her sin that woman deserved to have her husband for a master. But if this order is not maintained, nature will be corrupted still more, and sin will be increased." [XI.xxxvii.50] "There is a more serious problem to be considered. If Adam was a spiritual man, in mind though not in body, how could he have believed what was said through the serpent, namely, that God forbade them to eat of the fruit of that one tree because He knew that if they did they would be gods in their knowledge of good and evil? As if the Creator would grudge so great a good to His Creatures! It is surely strange if a man endowed with a spiritual mind could have believed this. Was it because the man would not have been able to believe this that the woman was employed on the supposition that she had limited understanding, and also perhaps that she was living according to the spirit of the flesh and not according to the spirit of the mind? . . . After the woman had been seduced and had eaten of the forbidden fruit and had given Adam some to eat with her, he did not wish to make her unhappy, fearing she would waste away without his support, alienated from his affections, and that this dissension would be her death. He was not overcome by the concupiscence of the flesh, which he had not yet experienced in the law of the members at war with the law of his mind, but by the sort of attachment and affection by which it often happens that we offend God while we try to keep the friendship of men. That he should not have acted thus is clear from the just sentence which God pronounced on him." [On Genesis, Book XI.xlii.58- 59].

    a] [Augustine version], my comments.
    For Augustine, Adam is the logos-mind, therefore Eve is forced to represent the 'lower nature of physicality’, since the logos-mind cannot 'fail ' [that is Augustine’s big problem ! The logos-mind is the same carnal Self [his own psuche definitions of soul], always in Augustine represented as masculine]. So, Augustine says, Adam but just 'went along, in order to not make her unhappy’...per definition, Augustine views 'this present physicality' as the original created being! He completely forgets Eden is Below. And though he mentions 'love', that is but a smoke-curtain, because the carnal Self does not know 'love’ – and he is but 'using it’ as ABSTRACT concept.

    b] real version, scripture.

    Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    the original creation of them was not a 'higher vs. lower', but 'inside and outside’ ; where Eve was literally the inside, the core, of Adam, and Adam her 'covering.'
    They were perfect, and a perfect type physicality, without many of the features we have now - those are the result of the fall ;

    And the difference between 'inside and outside' is "the word, and the speaking of the word". Eve was 'the word', a constant sighing sexy word of love ; while Adam represented 'speech', as in 'speech to create things' , from that beautiful word.

    That is how we are made in His image!

    Before the fall

    Genesis 2:24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh.

    Note how it is said [before the fall] , that the man 'will follow his woman' ;
    Why ? because she was all the love,
    including the 'love to create sweet and true things’
    [since God made Eden out of LOVE ] ;

    Suppose you had a girl you adored,
    you'd also see to it that she got as comfortable in everything you could offer, right ?

    So Augustine's version is ice cold. And that is just on one topic. The topic of Eve and soul, and the meaning of female.

    Augustine says it would be better if the companion of a man is another man!!

    How very Platonic! No female. And none in the platonic heaven either. Because in the Platonic, Augustinian heaven, there are but androgyne 'spirits'. No Nephesh soul to be found!

  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by e v e View Post

    hm. His word is His feminine spirit.. who no one sees...
    but each soul can sense the core of another, experience that being... who they talk to... and know and recognize the other as in christs nature, (or not) that the other is just like me.., or not, though of course unique and having a different attribute. so to feel the words is to understand them as from the truth, which is His nature... and to trust the words. Not by the logic and consciousness of this world which is by evidence, comparison etc. that is crude. To trust the words is because they are experienced in your core as true. Your core is Your soul, the Eden nature made by Him... in his exact image ... a tiny wee fragment now in this type of body. Your core is the temple of God.

    Christs life here was a playout. He did his part. Now each 144k has to do theirs. Different context. ; )
    Everyone see who has the same as Jesus had from the Father Who is God. He is a Spirit and man is the recipient of. Love. And in Love it is easy to decipher who is of it. The nature of Christ is what? Is it not Love, Holy Love?

    It isn't a matter of feeling it, it is a matter of living it. ... or at least it is for me and I think Jesus lived it as well.

    This world is the place for the mortal man, Gods kingdom is the place for the spiritual man. Not the same place at all for the mortal man and I don't think that you equate that difference ... for to you Gods creation is ugly, hateful, as you have expressed and waiting for that beautiful place to be restored you call Eden when in fact, I live that beautiful pace today, and just comparing myself with that what Jesus said of himself, he lived in that beautiful place himself.

    This world tortured the man and would like to torture me for the same reason. God nurtured that man and He nurtures me. And in that it is not the same scenario at all. If there is only one hundred and forty four thousand who knew God then I am one of the hundred thousand. He in me and I in Him are one, same mind, same Spirit, same way, same life same truth, same walk, same light. He in me and I in Him are exactly one.

    To me this world is a beautiful pace that God provided for mankind, but for some Gods creation it is dark, hateful, cruel, painful, which is not His kingdom at all but described as hell and it seems that is the place you have described God created for you and you live in. Is it not? For you have stated it is over and over that it is. And then you say His heaven, Eden ... is being restored? When does that happen for you eve?

    Leave a comment:


  • e v e
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac;n58***17

    Feel the words as in Jesus felt them?
    hm. His word is His feminine spirit.. who no one sees...
    but each soul can sense the core of another, experience that being... who they talk to... and know and recognize the other as in christs nature, (or not) that the other is just like me.., or not, though of course unique and having a different attribute. so to feel the words is to understand them as from the truth, which is His nature... and to trust the words. Not by the logic and consciousness of this world which is by evidence, comparison etc. that is crude. To trust the words is because they are experienced in your core as true. Your core is Your soul, the Eden nature made by Him... in his exact image ... a tiny wee fragment now in this type of body. Your core is the temple of God.

    Christs life here was a playout. He did his part. Now each 144k has to do theirs. Different context. ; )

    Leave a comment:


  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by e v e View Post

    I said feel the words. A person could feel them and not know more than that.
    Feel the words as in Jesus felt them?

    Leave a comment:


  • e v e
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Words can be misinterpreted, Love cannot be misinterpreted. .
    I said feel the words. A person could feel them and not know more than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by e v e View Post

    maybe ...


    i cant feel your words.
    Words can be misinterpreted, Love cannot be misinterpreted. .

    Leave a comment:


  • e v e
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Even though you don't think so. I Love you eve.
    maybe ...


    i cant feel your words.

    Leave a comment:


  • SeventhDay
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Yes Gods gift of His Spirit is false for many. And I got His help by His Spirit, same help Jesus got in understanding by His gift. And everyone who has received that gift is His anointed. And He does call everyone to Him but not everyone accepts His gift do they.

    Need some help? His gift is available all you have to do is receive Him. He will open all of His heaven to you as well with that gift. There is no other way to know God at all without that gift. A gift that you really should consider from Him.
    Jesus is the anointed on (Messiah) and all who are called to God belong to the anointed one.

    God bless you,

    SeventDay
    Last edited by SeventhDay; 02-18-19, 10:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • A child of Christ
    replied
    Gary Mac

    Please post message that PROVE

    Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    This by Yeshua's own words was His Message.

    Please PROVE YOURSELF that the same Spirit is upon you.

    Leave a comment:


  • A child of Christ
    replied
    Message deleted.

    Leave a comment:


  • A child of Christ
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Yes Gods gift of His Spirit is false for many. And I got His help by His Spirit, same help Jesus got in understanding by His gift. And everyone who has received that gift is His anointed. And He does call everyone to Him but not everyone accepts His gift do they.

    Need some help? His gift is available all you have to do is receive Him. He will open all of His heaven to you as well with that gift. There is no other way to know God at all without that gift. A gift that you really should consider from Him.
    No Gods Gift is not false to ANY, you said Many.

    You have separated yourself, you are the only perfect Christian in your world.

    You say you have the same Anointing that Yeshua had,

    Mat_3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    This is the Anointing the Yeshua had, and you Claim God has said the same to you.

    You are then the Christ, we should be hearing about you in the News.

    "The man that Healed 100s? 1000s?"

    You claim you are EQUAL to the CHRIST, Because God has Given you the same Blessing.

    Prove it with a witness, actually 2 or 3.

    Give me a Newspaper Headline were you Healed the sick.


    I do not condemn you for trying to be like Jesus,

    Leave a comment:


  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

    You have a false gospel, Gary. Need some help? Keep listening to the Anointed one which you are a member of if he has called you to himself.

    God bless you,

    SeventhDay
    Yes Gods gift of His Spirit is false for many. And I got His help by His Spirit, same help Jesus got in understanding by His gift. And everyone who has received that gift is His anointed. And He does call everyone to Him but not everyone accepts His gift do they.

    Need some help? His gift is available all you have to do is receive Him. He will open all of His heaven to you as well with that gift. There is no other way to know God at all without that gift. A gift that you really should consider from Him.

    Leave a comment:


  • SeventhDay
    replied
    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

    Nope ... not a progression at all. It is a gift we receive and either you have received it as Jesus did or you have not.
    You have a false gospel, Gary. Need some help? Keep listening to the Anointed one which you are a member of if he has called you to himself.

    God bless you,

    SeventhDay

    Leave a comment:


  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by e v e View Post

    Lol
    Even though you don't think so. I Love you eve.

    Leave a comment:


  • GaryMac
    replied
    Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

    God is in the Now and so is his own who are with him but you can be sure that spiritual regeneration is a progressive work and part of that includes sanctification by the Word of God.

    It is not a one time blowing of the wind but many times until the work is done which is why we have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    Yes, we are eating out of the tree of life and that is what is restoring us because the tree of life is in us. God has provided us bread so let us eat it!

    God bless you,

    SeventhDay
    Nope ... not a progression at all. It is a gift we receive and either you have received it as Jesus did or you have not.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X