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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

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Diane S
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Protestants and Catholics share the same belief on the Incarnation: God with us.

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  • Originally posted by JoeT View Post


    You are dodging the question, where in scripture does it say Mary and Joseph were the parents of anyone other than Christ.

    The meaning of the word 'till' does not necessarily mean a certain thing happened in a point in time. Rather it was manner of speaking, such as "Isaiah 46:4 "Even to old age I am he." Does he cease to be himself when he is old?


    "He sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, 'until' the waters were dried up off the earth." [Genesis 8:7],Could the raven no longer fly after earth dried up?

    Therefore Michol the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death.[2 Kings 6:23] Did Michol wait till after her death to give child?
    why do you ask that?


    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Truther View Post

      So, the flesh of the Godhead is speaking of the Spirit of the Godhead or something like that?

      Please clarify who Jesus was referring to in John 4:24.

      Thanks.
      Post John 4:24

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

        Post John 4:24
        John 4:24 King James Version (KJV)

        24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.





        ....Jesus describing what God is.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

          God th Father only
          Exactly.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

            The exact words are not there. Those exact words were formulated as a label for the concept that WAS in the Bible -- the LOGOS that was God, etc.
            Yeah, God's word is part of Himself.

            God's words are the creative power of Himself, since He has no physical parts to make things.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

              There simply isn't a fourth person of the Trinity conventionally known as God the Mother. However, many people think of the HS as a she.
              Right.

              That might be the wife of God to an ancient trin, that needed a trio in the Godhead....Father/Son/H.G.(Mother).

              Folks would be shocked to realize where trin originated with a little investigating.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Truther View Post
                John 4:24 King James Version (KJV)

                24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.





                ....Jesus describing what God is.
                What does verse 23 say?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                  Again, Scripture just doesn't spell out the miracle for you. It only says that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. If you don't think that's good enough, ask God for a different Bible. We also know that Jesus is God's only Son (John 3:16). The Early Church worked this out by saying the Son being begotten by the Father was something different than the incarnation. They said the Son was ETERNALLY begotten of the Father, whereas the incarnation, when Mary conceived, happened only at that one moment in history by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
                  Have you thought for a minute that the entire Spirit of the Father is not used to do miracles, but a dedicated part of His Spirit is set aside for human intervention?

                  Why always divide the Father from His own Spirit into 2 persons, ....as if the Father IS NOT a Holy Spirit Himself, anyway?

                  Read it right.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                    Truther, I'm surprised to find out you don't know what Trinitarianism is. We don't teach that the second person of th Trinity fathered himself. I refer you to my earlier post on this matter. Oh, and btw, it is Jesus who is the second person of the Trinity, God the son,... did we have confusion over that as well?

                    God the Father -- first person\
                    God the Son -- second person
                    God the HS -- third person
                    I know you don't teach it, but inadvertently you do.

                    The 2nd person incarnated Himself in the womb of Mary, right?

                    How?

                    He took on the form of a sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg, right?

                    Okay, the 2nd person Fathered Himself with his flesh's mother.


                    You better hope this never comes up in an open Bible study, or at least be ready for it.


                    The only way out of this is to tell the class that the egg of Mary was not involved at all, but then you have no "son of man".

                    Comment



                    • Of course! Though he was God, he was also fully man, and a Jew to boot. The God the Father, Hashem, was his God, whom he obeyed and worshiped along with the rest of Israel. He kept every law, and gave every sacrifice, perfectly.

                      Wait a minute. The Father was named "Hashem"?

                      Comment


                      • 1. God the Son did not impregnate Mary.
                        2. God the Son is eternally begotten of God the Father. It is those two who have the parent/child relationship, but this does not refer to Mary or her egg or any sperm.
                        3. We know that the pregnancy happened because the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. The HS is the 3rd person of the trinity, who proceeds from the Father. That doesn't tell us much, except that it was a miracle, and that Mary was litrally the physical mother of Jesus. How Jesus received the other half of his DNA, including his Y chromosome? You'll have to ask God when you get to heaven.


                        Begotten means.....




                        be·get
                        bəˈɡet/
                        verb
                        literary
                        1. 1.
                          (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.



                        Therefore there has to be a mother out there in eternity somewhere for us to have an "eternally begotten son".

                        Comment


                        • Actually it does. If A is B, and A is also C, and C is D, then D is A and can be substituted for A.
                          Logos is God
                          Logos became flesh (man)
                          That man was named Jesus.
                          Therefore we an substitute Jesus for Logos
                          i.e. Jesus is God.

                          Logos is God's spoken word.

                          God's spoken word was MADE flesh.

                          The Spirit God never became flesh.

                          The Spirit NEVER turned into flesh.

                          The Spirit is NOT flesh.

                          Jesus said....."God IS A Spirit....Him.....Him".

                          Believe him, okay?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

                            What does verse 23 say?
                            23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

                            24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




                            ......this.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Truther View Post

                              23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

                              24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




                              ......this.
                              As you see...The father mentioned in verse 23....is shown to be spirit in verse 24.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

                                As you see...The father mentioned in verse 23....is shown to be spirit in verse 24.
                                ...which Jesus is not.

                                The description Jesus gave of God is that He is ONLY a Spirit.

                                Per the OP, they claim God is 100% man, contrary to Jesus' description of God.

                                Now, would you or the author of this OP tell Jesus that he must not forget that God is 100% man also, if you were there?

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