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Protestants and Catholics share the same belief on the Incarnation: God with us.

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  • Protestants and Catholics share the same belief on the Incarnation: God with us.

    ALL OF THESE PROTESTANT RENDITIONS ARE GOOD SOUND CATHOLIC TEACHING. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT CATHOLICS BELIEVE ON THE INCARNATION READ ON:

    EVANGELICAL VIEWS:

    Matt Slick
    The term "incarnation" means "to become flesh." The incarnation is that event where the second person of the Trinity, the Word, became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1, "in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God." John 1:14, "And the word became flesh and dwelt among us . . . " When the Word became flesh, he dwelt in the womb of Mary and was born as Jesus. Jesus is the incarnation of God. He is God in flesh. Col. 2:9 says, "for in him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." https://carm.org/what-is-incarnation

    Christian Reseach Institute
    The Christian doctrine of the Incarnation teaches that the Eternal Word, the second person of the Trinity, without diminishing His deity took upon Himself a fully human nature. Specifically, this doctrine implies that a full and undiminished divine nature as well as a full and perfect human nature were united in the historical person of Jesus of Nazareth. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ is God the Son, in human flesh. http://www.equip.org/perspectives/th...-jesus-christ/

    Christianity Today
    In Christian theology the term refers to the supernatural act of God, effected by the Holy Spirit, whereby the eternal Son of God, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, took into union with Himself a complete human nature apart from sin. As a result of that action, the Son of God became the God-man forever, the Word made flesh https://www.christianitytoday.com/ed...ristology.html



    BAPTIST VIEWS: (there are many kinds of baptist churches so here are several views):
    "As we celebrate Christmas, we focus on one of the most important Christian doctrines—the incarnation. Jesus was “Emanuel,” “God with us” ...The Bible’s affirmation that the body is not inherently evil is underscored powerfully in the incarnation when the Word (Jesus) “became flesh and dwelt among us”(John 1:14)." https://www.baptistmessenger.com/the...oes-it-matter/

    God does whatever He chooses. He uses whoever He wants to use. We are just tools in the carpenters hands. We are the reason for the season. We are the reason He came into the world for because of His love for us He came and served and loved and sacrificed and died and rose again. We are the reason for the season. http://stanleyvillebaptist.org/sermo...e-incarnation/

    The Son of God, the second Person in the Holy Trinity, being very and eternal God, the brightness of the Fathers glory, of one substance and equal with him: who made the World, who upholdeth and governeth all things he hath made: did when the fullness of time was come take unto him mans nature, with all the Essential properties, and common infirmities thereof, yet without sin: being conceived by the Holy Spirit in the Womb of the Virgin Mary, the Holy Spirit coming down upon her, and the power of the most High overshadowing her, and so was made of a Woman, of the Tribe of Judah, of the Seed of Abraham, and David according to the Scriptures: So that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, were inseparably joined together in one Person: without conversion, composition, or confusion: which Person is very God, and very Man, yet one Christ, the only Mediator between God and Man. https://pastorhistorian.com/2016/12/...e-incarnation/

    METHODIST VIEW:

    We call this the Incarnation, meaning that God was in the world in the actual person of Jesus of Nazareth. http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/o...an-roots-jesus

    IN THE SEASON OF ADVENT we are asked to prepare our hearts for the coming of Christ, for this manifestation of God in human form. http://clevelandumc.org/2016/12/incarnation-3/

    PRESBYTERIAN (CALVINIST) VIEW:

    Specifically, it refers to the entry of divinity into human form and life. From a Christian perspective, incarnation refers to the doctrine that the pre-existent Son of God (the second Person of the Trinity) became a human being in the person of Jesus of Nazareth...Because Jesus is both divine and human, we have confidence that God does not stand at a distance from us, but has entered into existence with us. http://richmondfpc.com/pages/about-u...ncarnation.php

    LUTHERAN VIEW:

    If justification is the article upon which the Church stands or falls, the incarnation, that God became man in the person of Jesus, is foundational. https://lutheranreformation.org/theo...e-incarnation/

    CALVARY CHAPEL:"

    "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…” (John 1:14).
    Christmas is a celebration of God in His humanity.




  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by civic View Post

    None of the above described groups are either christian or protestant but cults such as oneness. Only the Son became Incarnate(flesh, a man) and that never happened prior to His birth in Bethlehem. The Son remains fully Incarnate throughout eternity. The Incarnation was/is permanent. Real protestants and catholics are in agreement on the Trinity and Deity of Christ.

    hope this helps !!!
    Right on!

    Leave a comment:


  • civic
    replied
    Originally posted by Walpole View Post




    Most heresies stem from a lack of understanding of the incarnation.


    And the Trinity

    Leave a comment:


  • civic
    replied
    Originally posted by Walpole View Post
    In a thread I started a few days ago, Protestant posters did NOT express the same belief as the Catholic belief of the Incarnation. Many espoused quite radical views. For example, one poster claimed the Trinity became incarnate. Another claimed Jesus was already incarnate in heaven before being born of Mary.

    I am trying to figure out if these radical beliefs espoused by Protestants here are outliers and specific to their particular sects, or if they are become mainstream throughout Protestantism.

    None of the above described groups are either christian or protestant but cults such as oneness. Only the Son became Incarnate(flesh, a man) and that never happened prior to His birth in Bethlehem. The Son remains fully Incarnate throughout eternity. The Incarnation was/is permanent. Real protestants and catholics are in agreement on the Trinity and Deity of Christ.

    hope this helps !!!

    Leave a comment:


  • newbirth
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    The bundles of tares don't happen until after the harvest, so you are not seeing them.
    I am seeing it written in the scriptures bro....and then are growing among the wheat as we speak...
    There are not more bundles of tares than there are of wheat. That's ridiculous.
    Really???Many are called few are chosen...few find the narrow way...
    That's not a field of wheat. Go out to ANY wheat farm and examine it. Look for yourself at harvest time what the proportion of wheat to tares is. If it were mostly tares, no one would farm wheat.
    you are not thinking...farmers go in and take out the tares from time to time....Jesus says leave the wheat and the tares let them grow together...you are not looking at Jesus field you are looking at a normal farmer field
    The point of the parable, is that Christ is saying to stop moaning and groaning about the tares in the field. He will take care f them at harvest time.
    exactly at which time the field would be overgrown with tares

    Why can't you trust Christ to do so? Just be wheat in the field despite the tares.
    Jesus does not say to stay with the tares...2 Corinthians 6:16-18...is very clear...

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    Does vs 30 say bind up the tares in bundles to be burned ???
    That's an indication of the amount of tares
    The bundles of tares don't happen until after the harvest, so you are not seeing them.

    There are not more bundles of tares than there are of wheat. That's ridiculous. That's not a field of wheat. Go out to ANY wheat farm and examine it. Look for yourself at harvest time what the proportion of wheat to tares is. If it were mostly tares, no one would farm wheat.

    The point of the parable, is that Christ is saying to stop moaning and groaning about the tares in the field. He will take care f them at harvest time. Why can't you trust Christ to do so? Just be wheat in the field despite the tares.

    Leave a comment:


  • newbirth
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    I see four problems with this conversation, and all four seem to be insurmountable.

    The first, and most serious, is that you simply don't believe what Jesus teaches in Matthew 13:24-30. He doesn't teach tares bound in bundles. That is something that your fear sees.
    Does vs 30 say bind up the tares in bundles to be burned ???
    That's an indication of the amount of tares

    The second thing is that you do not reply to the things I actually say. You set up straw men to knock down.
    of course I do...you said the church is not over run with tares....I showed you from the scriptures you quoted that the tares are bound in bundles...that indicates many tares....Jesus teaches that not many will find the way Matthew 7:14...

    The third thing is that you have begun to be abusive, Gas lighting me.
    That's a matter of opinion...please point out which post I abused you in....

    And finally, your reasoning skills are simply in very poor shape, which means I cannot carry on a rational discussion with you.
    That's another opinion....I simply state the facts...the scriptures say that the church is the body of Christ....that is the body of believers in Christ who obey him....not those who disobey him...you think the church is a building or a denomination
    If someone says to you that they are going to the store and is there anything you would like them to pick up for you, you don't blurt out something about Trump being i Singapore. It's not related, not appropriate to the conversation. The fact that Trump is actually in Singapore is entirely irrelevant.
    as this statement is irrelevant
    All that considered, I think the conversation is doomed to complete failure. We should simply let it rest.

    Go with God.

    In Christ
    Open Heart
    because you refuse to accept the scriptures in favor of Catholic doctrine.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    I see tares bound in bundles.....
    I see four problems with this conversation, and all four seem to be insurmountable.

    The first, and most serious, is that you simply don't believe what Jesus teaches in Matthew 13:24-30. He doesn't teach tares bound in bundles. That is something that your fear sees.

    The second thing is that you do not reply to the things I actually say. You set up straw men to knock down.

    The third thing is that you have begun to be abusive, Gas lighting me.

    And finally, your reasoning skills are simply in very poor shape, which means I cannot carry on a rational discussion with you. If someone says to you that they are going to the store and is there anything you would like them to pick up for you, you don't blurt out something about Trump being i Singapore. It's not related, not appropriate to the conversation. The fact that Trump is actually in Singapore is entirely irrelevant.


    All that considered, I think the conversation is doomed to complete failure. We should simply let it rest.

    Go with God.

    In Christ
    Open Heart

    Leave a comment:


  • newbirth
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    You are reaching conclusions that are unwarranted and entirely off topic.
    you are bringing up the issues...I am dealing with them
    There are serious problems with your reasoning skills.
    it's called telling the truth...
    This is going to seriously interfear with your ability to evaluate whether something is true or false.
    no it cannot...because I am calling it as I see it.....there are idols in the RCC house of worship....you can't deny that

    No wonder you have ended up in heresies!
    teaching people to worship idols is heresy...
    It cannot be deliberate and caused by ignorance at the same time
    it's deliberate because you choose to do it...it's in ignorance because you don't have the knowledge of the truth...
    (unless one is willfully ignorant, which I am certainly not -- I have gone out of my way to seek the truth).
    People find the truth everyday and still choose wrong....because their false doctrine feels better to them..

    But you and I talk in English, which means that if I speak of a building where Christians meet to worship God, I'm going to call it a church.
    and that is ignorance...now that I have explained to you ...the place where you worship is the house of worship...but the people who follow Jesus in truth they are actually the church....you ignore the truth and deliberately choose to call a building the church...you have proven my case
    Matthew 13:24-30
    I see tares bound in bundles.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    your denial is noted...but everyone knows that there are idols in the RCC ...and they pray to Mary
    maybe unwarranted but fact nonetheless
    You are reaching conclusions that are unwarranted and entirely off topic. There are serious problems with your reasoning skills. This is going to seriously interfear with your ability to evaluate whether something is true or false. No wonder you have ended up in heresies!

    people make mistakes on their own...that's deliberate...caused by ignorance..
    It cannot be deliberate and caused by ignorance at the same time (unless one is willfully ignorant, which I am certainly not -- I have gone out of my way to seek the truth).

    according to the scriptures church means one thing the ecclesia...the body of Christ...what's with you and the English language....the scriptures was not originally written in English...
    But you and I talk in English, which means that if I speak of a building where Christians meet to worship God, I'm going to call it a church.

    where did Jesus say that??? Chapter and verse please...Jesus said that only a few will find the narrow way...
    Matthew 13:24-30

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    What nonsense are you saying...did I at any time suggest that you are crazy???You brought it up on your own
    Yes you did. When you said I don't know
    1. what I'm saying (aka that I'm speaking such nonsense that even I can't understand it)
    2. don't know what I believe (aka can't trust what I myself am thinking)
    these things are well known evidences of serious insanity

    You definitely were Gaslighting, a serious form of emotional ABUSE.

    You should apologize.

    And apology or not, STOP IT.

    You did it again when you stated it was I that had brought it up, when it was YOUR actions I referred to. Again, you insinuate that I am imagining things. That's Gaslightinng. ABUSIVE.

    STOP NOW.

    Leave a comment:


  • newbirth
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    The technique of trying to convince the other person that they are crazy is known as Gaslighting.It is incredibly ABUSIVE. It is therefore a form of harrassment. STOP NOW.
    What nonsense are you saying...did I at any time suggest that you are crazy???You brought it up on your own

    No it doesn't. This is an unwarrented conclusion. Do you understand what that means?
    your denial is noted...but everyone knows that there are idols in the RCC ...and they pray to Mary
    This in an unwarranted conclusion, again. Your ability to reason properly is called into question.
    maybe unwarranted but fact nonetheless
    Yet another exampe of you not reading what I said. I said Paul speaks for Jesus, that whatever Paul says, Jesus says. So when Paul says that an assembly is a different thing from 2 or 3 gathering, then Jesus says it as well.
    Paul is not saying an assembly is something different...you are saying that...

    There is no such thing as a guilty as a guilty mistake because mistakes are not acts of rebellion.
    I was asking you the question...since you don't know..mistakes are errors...it means that you took the wrong way...made the wrong choice...

    They cannot be as they are not deliberate.
    cannot be what???You are not making any sense...does someone hold a gun to your head for you to make a mistake???tell me...who are you blaming for you mistakes????
    That's why they are called mistakes. This is the English language.
    that's rubbish...no one forces anyone to make mistakes...people make mistakes on their own...that's deliberate...caused by ignorance..
    Church does NOT mean just one thing. It is a word in the English language, and can mean any of the following

    CHJ
    Definition of church

    1: a building for public and especially Christian worship
    2: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
    • the word church … is put for the persons that are ordained for the ministry of the Gospel, that is to say, the clergy
    • —J. Ayliffe
    3often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: such as
    a : the whole body of Christians
    • the one church is the whole body gathered together from all ages
    • —J. H. Newman
    b : denomination
    • the Presbyterian church
    c : congregation
    • they had appointed elders for them in every church
    • —Acts 14:23 (Revised Standard Version)
    4: a public divine worship
    • goes to church every Sunday
    according to the scriptures church means one thing the ecclesia...the body of Christ...what's with you and the English language....the scriptures was not originally written in English...

    The tares are present in the assembly but do not overrun the tares because THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAID and i believe Jesus.
    where did Jesus say that??? Chapter and verse please...Jesus said that only a few will find the narrow way...

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    you don't know what you are saying and you don't know what you believe...
    The technique of trying to convince the other person that they are crazy is known as Gaslighting.It is incredibly ABUSIVE. It is therefore a form of harrassment. STOP NOW.

    it teaches people to worship idols
    No it doesn't. This is an unwarrented conclusion. Do you understand what that means?


    So by your own standard no one is taking you seriously
    This in an unwarranted conclusion, again. Your ability to reason properly is called into question.

    but you don't understand Jesus....????are you saying that Paul is teaching a different gospel???? Because Jesus said where two or three gather in my name I am in the midst...you seem to be saying that Paul is saying don't listen to Jesus he is not in the midst when two or three people gather...
    Yet another exampe of you not reading what I said. I said Paul speaks for Jesus, that whatever Paul says, Jesus says. So when Paul says that an assembly is a different thing from 2 or 3 gathering, then Jesus says it as well.

    what is a guilty mistake???...a mistake is a mistake...
    wrong is wrong deliberately or not...can wrong be right????
    There is no such thing as a guilty as a guilty mistake because mistakes are not acts of rebellion. They cannot be as they are not deliberate. That's why they are called mistakes. This is the English language.

    bro it's not about what you mean...it's about what Jesus means...your idea of church can be anything from a building to a bunch of idol worshipers...to me church means one thing...the body of Christ
    Church does NOT mean just one thing. It is a word in the English language, and can mean any of the following

    CHJ
    Definition of church

    1: a building for public and especially Christian worship
    2: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
    • the word church … is put for the persons that are ordained for the ministry of the Gospel, that is to say, the clergy
    • —J. Ayliffe
    3often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: such as
    a : the whole body of Christians
    • the one church is the whole body gathered together from all ages
    • —J. H. Newman
    b : denomination
    • the Presbyterian church
    c : congregation
    • they had appointed elders for them in every church
    • —Acts 14:23 (Revised Standard Version)
    4: a public divine worship
    • goes to church every Sunday
    How would you know????
    The tares are present in the assembly but do not overrun the tares because THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAID and i believe Jesus.

    Leave a comment:


  • newbirth
    replied
    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
    You are replying to things I have neither said nor believe
    you don't know what you are saying and you don't know what you believe...

    That’s called the straw man fallacy. IOWb it is not a rational way to respond. You are tilting windmills. To make a Don Quixote reference.
    That's babbling
    I absolutely deny that 2-3 is an assembly. You are making excuses so that you can get out of going to church.
    that does not alter the fact that two people can assemble...



    If you want to argue against Catholicism you’d better have an idea what it teaches.
    it teaches people to worship idols
    If you say things about it that are not true then you end up looking silly and no one takes you seriously.
    So by your own standard no one is taking you seriously
    Paul is Jesus ‘ mouthpiece. So to follow Paul is to follow Jesus. Of course I understand Paul.
    but you don't understand Jesus....????are you saying that Paul is teaching a different gospel???? Because Jesus said where two or three gather in my name I am in the midst...you seem to be saying that Paul is saying don't listen to Jesus he is not in the midst when two or three people gather...

    Do you know what an innocent mistake is?
    what is a guilty mistake???...a mistake is a mistake...
    It’s when you are not deliberately wrong
    wrong is wrong deliberately or not...can wrong be right????
    There have been times in my life that I have changed my mind meaning I have come to believe I was mistaken.
    Which means that you were wrong....who's fault was it???
    Hypothetically this is a possibility.
    but it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong
    Deliberate rebellion is not possible.
    The only way to rebel is deliberately
    Correct doctrine is not a fruit of the spirit.
    no but it is a fruit of the vine...Jesus said I am the vine you are the branches...the branches of Jesus does not bear false doctrine
    Patience is a fruit. I think I have shown great patience with you.
    someone else has to be the judge of that....

    You obviously did not read my message. I definitely cleared this up in my second place post when I made it clear that by institutional church I meant the institutional local assembly (as opposed to the Body).
    bro it's not about what you mean...it's about what Jesus means...your idea of church can be anything from a building to a bunch of idol worshipers...to me church means one thing...the body of Christ
    Again with the straw man. You can’t actually defeat the real me so you make up someone pretend to fight
    it's not a strawman...clearly your understanding of church is a large number of people who say Lord Lord...

    That’s right. And the tares are present in its assembly but it is not overrun.
    How would you know????
    This is whole conversation you have demonstrated that you do not believe Jesus’ story of the wheat field. Have a little faith.
    Did I not explain it to you??? He said don't pull out the tares....he didn't say go join with them...
    Just try a church for one week.
    Again you have to give your definition of what you mean by church....if for some reason only two people turn up are you still in church???

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by newbirth View Post
    I am telling you what you need to know
    You are replying to things I have neither said nor believe That’s called the straw man fallacy. IOWb it is not a rational way to respond. You are tilting windmills. To make a Don Quixote reference.

    No we don't agree...you are talking rubbish...gathering begins with two...the body of Christ which is the church is made up of individual people...Jesus said where two gather he is in the midst...you are trying to deny that...
    I absolutely deny that 2-3 is an assembly. You are making excuses so that you can get out of going to church.


    the thing is the scriptures does not require me to understand Catholicism
    If you want to argue against Catholicism you’d better have an idea what it teaches. If you say things about it that are not true then you end up looking silly and no one takes you seriously.

    yep and Jesus said go and sin no more...what is your point...who exactly are you serving Paul or Jesus...you can't understand Paul's writings...
    Paul is Jesus ‘ mouthpiece. So to follow Paul is to follow Jesus. Of course I understand Paul.

    is someone holding a gun to your head???
    Do you know what an innocent mistake is? It’s when you are not deliberately wrong There have been times in my life that I have changed my mind meaning I have come to believe I was mistaken. Hypothetically this is a possibility. Deliberate rebellion is not possible.


    Neither but Jesus said by their fruits you shall know them...
    Correct doctrine is not a fruit of the spirit.

    Patience is a fruit. I think I have shown great patience with you.


    nope you said they are not the church they are part of the institutional church...which really makes no sense
    You obviously did not read my message. I definitely cleared this up in my second place post when I made it clear that by institutional church I meant the institutional local assembly (as opposed to the Body).

    that's something different you are saying now....which tells me you would plant yourself in a field of tares...
    like I said you would gladly plant yourself in a field of tares
    Again with the straw man. You can’t actually defeat the real me so you make up someone pretend to fight

    there is only one church and it's not lost...
    That’s right. And the tares are present in its assembly but it is not overrun.

    This is whole conversation you have demonstrated that you do not believe Jesus’ story of the wheat field. Have a little faith.

    Just try a church for one week.

    Leave a comment:

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