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Moved: Was Paul mostly apostle to Jews or Gentiles?

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  • Moved: Was Paul mostly apostle to Jews or Gentiles?

    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
    Here is more, NRSV, Acts 21::



    ALL the Jews "living among the Gentiles." That would be Jews living outside of Israel. IN Gentile nations. Yet, they were still called Jews. NOT "Gentiles."

    Here is more, from Acts 22 also NRSV:



    The Jews were fine listening to Paul--until he said he had been sent to the GENTILES. IF Gentiles were mostly Jews living in non-Jewish countries, why would they be upset over Jesus sending Paul to their fellow Jews?

    Paul also, in Acts 21 and 22, has this to say about himself:



    Paul identified himself as a Jew, not Gentile, even though he was born in Tarsus.

    And Jesus Himself distinguished between the Jews (people of Israel) and Gentiles:



    So, you are incorrect, OC. Also, you need to read ALL of the definitions of "Gentile" in Merriem-Webster.

    Paul identified himself as a Jew, even though he was from Tarsus, a Roman city. He never referred to himself as a Gentile. Neither did anyone else that I know of--except you, OC.
    Wow, it seems you are going to great lengths again to avoid accepting you were wrong.. You claimed I was 100% wrong regarding Paul.. Which ironically you have proven to be wrong in your assertion and proven I was actually correct..

    What I stated .. the thread YOU linked to was this..[INDENT=2] Paul is said to be called to preach to the 'gentiles' (Other non-jewish nations) , the narrative from ACTS shows that is primarily Jews in these non-Jewish nations who are his audience. It stands to reason since Jewish prophesy and scripture would have had little meaning to non-Jews, and thus would not likely be persuaded by apologetic reasoning from Jewish Scriptures. [/INDENT]

    Then you provided a link to a definition in which the first definition is " a person of a non-Jewish nation" Which is almost exactly what I stated.

    I also stated the the argument all depends on how you define 'gentile' and it clearly has different meaning when used in different contexts.. So what I think we see you doing now is instead of admitting that I was not 100% wrong.. Since the very definition of 'gentile' you provide agrees with my position. You try to cherry pick out of context examples of the word usage to try to refute your own cited definition.. Good grief.. you moving the goal posts so far you destroyed your own argument. It would have been simpler to just admit..

    BTW I never said he preached EXCLUSIVELY to Jews.. but that the narrative in acts has Paul primarily teaching Jews in Gentile lands.. anyone reading ACTS can see that for themselves..

    I may ask the mods to move this discussion of Paul--once again--to the Apologetics board. Since it really has nothing to do with Mormonism.
    Funny you started this argument and made the posts.. now that you can't accept you were wrong you want to move it.

  • #2
    For OC. Here is something from Acts 13, that proves that Gentiles are non-Jews. I even used your favorite version, the NRSV:

    Paul and Barnabas in Antioch of Pisidia


    13 Then Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. John, however, left them and returned to Jerusalem; 14 but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the law and the prophets, the officials of the synagogue sent them a message, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, give it.” 16 So Paul stood up and with a gesture began to speak:

    [B]“You Israelites, and others who fear God, listen. 17 The God of this people Israel chose our ancestors and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. 18 For about forty years he put up with[c] them in the wilderness. 19 After he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land as an inheritance 20 for about four hundred fifty years. After that he gave them judges until the time of the prophet Samuel. 21 Then they asked for a king; and God gave them Saul son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, who reigned for forty years. 22 When he had removed him, he made David their king. In his testimony about him he said, ‘I have found David, son of Jesse, to be a man after my heart, who will carry out all my wishes.’ 23 Of this man’s posterity God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised; 24 before his coming John had already proclaimed a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was finishing his work, he said, ‘What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but one is coming after me; I am not worthy to untie the thong of the sandals[d] on his feet.’

    26 “My brothers, you descendants of Abraham’s family, and others who fear God, to us[e] the message of this salvation has been sent. 27 Because the residents of Jerusalem and their leaders did not recognize him or understand the words of the prophets that are read every sabbath, they fulfilled those words by condemning him. 28 Even though they found no cause for a sentence of death, they asked Pilate to have him killed. 29 When they had carried out everything that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead; 31 and for many days he appeared to those who came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, and they are now his witnesses to the people. 32 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to our ancestors 33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm,

    ‘You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.’

    34 As to his raising him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way,

    ‘I will give you the holy promises made to David.’

    35 Therefore he has also said in another psalm,

    ‘You will not let your Holy One experience corruption.’

    36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, died,[f] was laid beside his ancestors, and experienced corruption; 37 but he whom God raised up experienced no corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you; 39 by this Jesus[g] everyone who believes is set free from all those sins[h] from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses. 40 Beware, therefore, that what the prophets said does not happen to you:

    41 ‘Look, you scoffers!
    Be amazed and perish,
    for in your days I am doing a work,
    a work that you will never believe, even if someone tells you.’”

    42 As Paul and Barnabas[i] were going out, the people urged them to speak about these things again the next sabbath. 43 When the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

    44 The next sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.[j] 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy; and blaspheming, they contradicted what was spoken by Paul. 46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

    ‘I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles,
    so that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”


    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers. 49 Thus the word of the Lord spread throughout the region. 50 But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city, and stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their region. 51 So they shook the dust off their feet in protest against them, and went to Iconium. 52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
    Here, Paul distinguishes himse;f and other Jews from others who had converted to Judaism. He distinguishes between himself and fellow Jes as descendants of Abraham. And Acts tells us that later on, in vs. 44, that "the JEWS" were filled with jealousy. So, here the descendants of Abraham were living in Asia Minor, not Israel, NOT Jewish country, and yet, they were still called "Jews."
    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

    Comment


    • #3
      Here is more, NRSV, Acts 21::

      Paul Visits James at Jerusalem


      17 When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers welcomed us warmly. 18 The next day Paul went with us to visit James; and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 When they heard it, they praised God. Then they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews, and they are all zealous for the law. 21 They have been told about you that you teach all the Jews living among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, and that you tell them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs.
      ALL the Jews "living among the Gentiles." That would be Jews living outside of Israel. IN Gentile nations. Yet, they were still called Jews. NOT "Gentiles."

      Here is more, from Acts 22 also NRSV:

      Paul Sent to the Gentiles


      17 “After I had returned to Jerusalem and while I was praying in the temple, I fell into a trance 18 and saw Jesus saying to me, ‘Hurry and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about me.’ 19 And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you. 20 And while the blood of your witness Stephen was shed, I myself was standing by, approving and keeping the coats of those who killed him.’ 21 Then he said to me, ‘Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’” Paul and the Roman Tribune


      22 Up to this point they listened to him, but then they shouted, “Away with such a fellow from the earth! For he should not be allowed to live.”
      The Jews were fine listening to Paul--until he said he had been sent to the GENTILES. IF Gentiles were mostly Jews living in non-Jewish countries, why would they be upset over Jesus sending Paul to their fellow Jews?

      Paul also, in Acts 21 and 22, has this to say about himself:

      39 Paul replied, “I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of an important city; I beg you, let me speak to the people.” 40 When he had given him permission, Paul stood on the steps and motioned to the people for silence; and when there was a great hush, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying: " Acts 22 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)


      22 “Brothers and fathers, listen to the defense that I now make before you.”

      2 When they heard him addressing them in Hebrew, they became even more quiet. Then he said:

      3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated strictly according to our ancestral law, being zealous for God, just as all of you are today
      Paul identified himself as a Jew, not Gentile, even though he was born in Tarsus.

      And Jesus Himself distinguished between the Jews (people of Israel) and Gentiles:

      NRSV, ACTS 9:

      “Go, for he is an instrument whom I have chosen to bring my name before Gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel; 16 I myself will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias went and entered the house.
      So, you are incorrect, OC. Also, you need to read ALL of the definitions of "Gentile" in Merriem-Webster.

      Paul identified himself as a Jew, even though he was from Tarsus, a Roman city. He never referred to himself as a Gentile. Neither did anyone else that I know of--except you, OC.

      I may ask the mods to move this discussion of Paul--once again--to the Apologetics board. Since it really has nothing to do with Mormonism.
      Last edited by Bonnie; 10-11-18, 12:00 PM.
      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
      “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
      "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

        So, you are incorrect, OC. Also, you need to read ALL of the definitions of "Gentile" in Merriem-Webster.
        NO.. I only have to use one definition, and as it happens the FIRST definition fits the meaning of my posts.. It is listed as the first definition for a reason.. that being the most common definition. So given the most common definition fits the intended meaning of my posts, you were wrong in claiming I was 100% wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

          NO.. I only have to use one definition, and as it happens the FIRST definition fits the meaning of my posts.. It is listed as the first definition for a reason.. that being the most common definition. So given the most common definition fits the intended meaning of my posts, you were wrong in claiming I was 100% wrong.
          Except that definition still does not fit what the Bible teaches about Gentiles. And the most "common" definition is someone who is NOT ethnically Jewish by birth. And Paul was. Ergo, he was NOT a Gentile and he never referred to himself as one, even though he was born in Tarsus, a non-Jewish city.

          Here is Free dictionary:

          gen·tile

          (jĕn′tīl′)
          n. often Gentile
          1. A person who is not Jewish.
          2. Archaic A pagan or heathen.
          3. Mormon Church A non-Mormon.
          adj.
          1. often Gentile Of or relating to a gentile.
          2. Of or relating to a gens, tribe, or people.

          Now, the MOST COMMON definition known to most people is someone who is NON-JEWISH. NOT a Jew living outside of Israel.

          Now, deal with the fact that Paul never called himself a Gentile and neither did anyone else--though he was "of" a non-Jewish town, Tarsus. And the Bible consistently distinguishes Jews from the Nations--calling the latter "Gentiles."
          "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
          "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
          “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
          "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
          "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
            Wow, it seems you are going to great lengths again to avoid accepting you were wrong.. You claimed I was 100% wrong regarding Paul.. Which ironically you have proven to be wrong in your assertion and proven I was actually correct..

            What I stated .. the thread YOU linked to was this..[INDENT=2] Paul is said to be called to preach to the 'gentiles' (Other non-jewish nations) , the narrative from ACTS shows that is primarily Jews in these non-Jewish nations who are his audience. It stands to reason since Jewish prophesy and scripture would have had little meaning to non-Jews, and thus would not likely be persuaded by apologetic reasoning from Jewish Scriptures. [/INDENT]Then you provided a link to a definition in which the first definition is " a person of a non-Jewish nation" Which is almost exactly what I stated.

            I also stated the the argument all depends on how you define 'gentile' and it clearly has different meaning when used in different contexts.. So what I think we see you doing now is instead of admitting that I was not 100% wrong.. Since the very definition of 'gentile' you provide agrees with my position. You try to cherry pick out of context examples of the word usage to try to refute your own cited definition.. Good grief.. you moving the goal posts so far you destroyed your own argument. It would have been simpler to just admit..

            BTW I never said he preached EXCLUSIVELY to Jews.. but that the narrative in acts has Paul primarily teaching Jews in Gentile lands.. anyone reading ACTS can see that for themselves..



            Funny you started this argument and made the posts.. now that you can't accept you were wrong you want to move it.
            You are wrong about Paul. And I never said you claimed he preached 100% to Jews. Not that I recall. But the Bible shows us who the Gentiles are, and ot was not Jews living outside Israel and I proved it from the Bible.
            .
            .ADDED BY MOD FROM ANOTHER POST ON MORMON FORUM:

            Sorry, but I did NOT prove you correct about "Gentile". Ask any Jew. In fact, you shot yourself in the foot. A Gentile is a non-Jew, of any nationality. Or ethnicity. And Paul was most definitely a Jew, of the tribe of Abraham. Living in Tarsus did not change his ethnicity or religion. And Paul was the Apostle mainly to the Gentiles--the uncircumcised. I do not see any definition of a "Gentile" being a Jew living outside of Israel. Paul makes a distinction between the Gentiles and the Jews. The Gentiles didn't follow the Law of Moses; the Jews did EVEN when living outside Israel. That is why they had synagogues in other cities outside of Israel, which Paul would go to, to preach first to the Jews. With mixed success. When the Jews rejected his message, he then took the message to the Gentiles.

            Here are ALL the definitions from Merriem-Webster:

            gentile

            noun
            gen·tile | \ˈjen-ˌtī(-ə)l \ Definition of gentile

            (Entry 1 of 2)

            1often capitalized : a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew

            2: HEATHEN, PAGAN

            3often capitalized : a non-Mormon

            gentile

            adjective
            Definition of gentile (Entry 2 of 2)

            1often capitalized

            a: of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews, also : of or relating to Christians as distinguished from the Jews

            b: of or relating to non-Mormons

            2: HEATHEN, PAGAN

            3[ borrowed from Latin gentīlis ] : relating to a tribe or clan
            How many Jewish nations are there, in the world? I know of only one. And living in other nations would not change one's ethnicity, would it? OR one's religion? Paul was still a Jew and NOT a Gentile, even though he was from Tarsus. He still practiced his Judaism until Jesus met him outside of Damascus. My daughter is from India and though she is now an American, she is still Indian. Her ethnicity didn't change when we adopted her and she became an American citizen. So, Jews would not suddenly become Gentiles just because they lived outside Israel.

            So you are dead wrong about Paul and the Gentiles. As I have proven and so have others, in the link I provided.
            Last edited by Mod10; 10-12-18, 02:27 PM. Reason: edited to add part of a post from the Mormon forum
            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
            “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
            "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

              Except that definition still does not fit what the Bible teaches about Gentiles. And the most "common" definition is someone who is NOT ethnically Jewish by birth. And Paul was. Ergo, he was NOT a Gentile and he never referred to himself as one, even though he was born in Tarsus, a non-Jewish city.

              Here is Free dictionary:




              Now, the MOST COMMON definition known to most people is someone who is NON-JEWISH. NOT a Jew living outside of Israel.

              Now, deal with the fact that Paul never called himself a Gentile and neither did anyone else--though he was "of" a non-Jewish town, Tarsus. And the Bible consistently distinguishes Jews from the Nations--calling the latter "Gentiles."
              And more, from Paul, on whom he was the apostle to:

              7(Galations 2, N ASB) But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been [e]to the circumcised 8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship [f]to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), 9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, [g]James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right [h]hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 They only asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do.
              WHO are the "uncircumcised" here, OC? Paul contrasts them with the "circumcised." WHO are the "circumcised"? Then in vs. 9, Paul says that "we might go to the GENTILES, and THEY to the circumcised."

              The UNcircumcised were the Gentiles. So, it canNOT mean Jews living outside of Israel, since Jewish boys were always circumcised, especially if they had Jewish fathers (originally, Timothy was not, because his dad was Greek). In vs. 8 Paul ALSO says how God worked effectively through him with the GENTILES. And those Gentiles were UNcircumcised. They were NOT Jews.

              So, I am sorry, but you are mistaken here. Certainly Paul preached sometimes to the Jews, but most of his apostleship was to non-Jews--Gentiles. As he himself has stated. What matters is WHO the Gentiles are IN THE BIBLE. And IN THE BIBLE, they are NOT Jews living outside of Jewish countries, like Judea or Galilee. Jews are NEVER referred to as Gentiles, that I am aware of, even if living outside of Jewish countries.
              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
              “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
              "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                Wow, it seems you are going to great lengths again to avoid accepting you were wrong.. You claimed I was 100% wrong regarding Paul.. Which ironically you have proven to be wrong in your assertion and proven I was actually correct..

                What I stated .. the thread YOU linked to was this..[INDENT=2] Paul is said to be called to preach to the 'gentiles' (Other non-jewish nations) , the narrative from ACTS shows that is primarily Jews in these non-Jewish nations who are his audience. It stands to reason since Jewish prophesy and scripture would have had little meaning to non-Jews, and thus would not likely be persuaded by apologetic reasoning from Jewish Scriptures. [/INDENT]Then you provided a link to a definition in which the first definition is " a person of a non-Jewish nation" Which is almost exactly what I stated.

                I also stated the the argument all depends on how you define 'gentile' and it clearly has different meaning when used in different contexts.. So what I think we see you doing now is instead of admitting that I was not 100% wrong.. Since the very definition of 'gentile' you provide agrees with my position. You try to cherry pick out of context examples of the word usage to try to refute your own cited definition.. Good grief.. you moving the goal posts so far you destroyed your own argument. It would have been simpler to just admit..

                BTW I never said he preached EXCLUSIVELY to Jews.. but that the narrative in acts has Paul primarily teaching Jews in Gentile lands.. anyone reading ACTS can see that for themselves..



                Funny you started this argument and made the posts.. now that you can't accept you were wrong you want to move it.

                Acts 15:7 New International Version (NIV)

                A.. "After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe."

                ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~===~==~


                1 Corinthians 4:15 New International Version (NIV)

                B.. " Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I BECAME YOUR FATHER through the gospel."
                ( see Matt 23: 9 click Below. )


                https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...A9&version=KJV




                Which of the above is truth ?

                Whom do you say is the God's chosen Apostle to the Gentiles. Peter or Paul?
                Last edited by DANNO; 10-12-18, 02:47 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Paul was both. Peter was both. But eventually, Peter became more the apostle to the circumcised, and Paul, to the uncircumcised. But there were crossovers into both groups, by both Apostles. Simple. No mystery there.
                  "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                  "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                  “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                  "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                  "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    . I can read the bible for myself and see that both Peter and Paul preached to BOTH groups, but eventually, Paul was mostly to the Gentiles and Peter to the Jews. The Holy Spirit has given me discernment to see that, from what is so plain in the Bible.

                    What about 1 Corinthians 4:15?

                    And I am not interested in the subject in your link, which is why I have made no comment on it.. This thread is about who the Gentiles really are, in the Bible. The other poster has stated that a Gentile is one who lives outside of a Jewish land, whether Jew by birth or non-Jew, (paraphrasing a little) and even stated that Paul could be considered a gentile in that respect, since he was from Tarsus. But Paul never, ever called himself ethnically anything other than a Jew, of the tribe of Benjamin. So I say the other poster is wrong, and proved it from the Bible verses I quoted.
                    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                    “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                    "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                      Wow, it seems you are going to great lengths again to avoid accepting you were wrong.. You claimed I was 100% wrong regarding Paul.. Which ironically you have proven to be wrong in your assertion and proven I was actually correct..

                      What I stated .. the thread YOU linked to was this..[INDENT=2] Paul is said to be called to preach to the 'gentiles' (Other non-jewish nations) , the narrative from ACTS shows that is primarily Jews in these non-Jewish nations who are his audience. It stands to reason since Jewish prophesy and scripture would have had little meaning to non-Jews, and thus would not likely be persuaded by apologetic reasoning from Jewish Scriptures. [/INDENT]

                      Then you provided a link to a definition in which the first definition is " a person of a non-Jewish nation" Which is almost exactly what I stated.

                      I also stated the the argument all depends on how you define 'gentile' and it clearly has different meaning when used in different contexts.. So what I think we see you doing now is instead of admitting that I was not 100% wrong.. Since the very definition of 'gentile' you provide agrees with my position. You try to cherry pick out of context examples of the word usage to try to refute your own cited definition.. Good grief.. you moving the goal posts so far you destroyed your own argument. It would have been simpler to just admit..

                      BTW I never said he preached EXCLUSIVELY to Jews.. but that the narrative in acts has Paul primarily teaching Jews in Gentile lands.. anyone reading ACTS can see that for themselves..



                      Funny you started this argument and made the posts.. now that you can't accept you were wrong you want to move it.
                      I asked that the posts be moved here to avoid going off topic for the Mormon board, and so neither of us would break the rules. Forgive me for trying to keep both of us out of trouble.
                      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                      “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                      "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                        You are wrong about Paul. And I never said you claimed he preached 100% to Jews. Not that I recall. But the Bible shows us who the Gentiles are, and ot was not Jews living outside Israel and I proved it from the Bible.
                        .
                        .ADDED BY MOD FROM ANOTHER POST ON MORMON FORUM:

                        Sorry, but I did NOT prove you correct about "Gentile". Ask any Jew. In fact, you shot yourself in the foot. A Gentile is a non-Jew, of any nationality. Or ethnicity. And Paul was most definitely a Jew, of the tribe of Abraham. Living in Tarsus did not change his ethnicity or religion. And Paul was the Apostle mainly to the Gentiles--the uncircumcised. I do not see any definition of a "Gentile" being a Jew living outside of Israel. Paul makes a distinction between the Gentiles and the Jews. The Gentiles didn't follow the Law of Moses; the Jews did EVEN when living outside Israel. That is why they had synagogues in other cities outside of Israel, which Paul would go to, to preach first to the Jews. With mixed success. When the Jews rejected his message, he then took the message to the Gentiles.

                        Here are ALL the definitions from Merriem-Webster:

                        gentile

                        noun
                        gen·tile | \ˈjen-ˌtī(-ə)l \ Definition of gentile

                        (Entry 1 of 2)

                        1often capitalized : a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith especially : a Christian as distinguished from a Jew

                        2: HEATHEN, PAGAN

                        3often capitalized : a non-Mormon

                        gentile

                        adjective
                        Definition of gentile (Entry 2 of 2)

                        1often capitalized

                        a: of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews, also : of or relating to Christians as distinguished from the Jews

                        b: of or relating to non-Mormons

                        2: HEATHEN, PAGAN

                        3[ borrowed from Latin gentīlis ] : relating to a tribe or clan
                        How many Jewish nations are there, in the world? I know of only one. And living in other nations would not change one's ethnicity, would it? OR one's religion? Paul was still a Jew and NOT a Gentile, even though he was from Tarsus. He still practiced his Judaism until Jesus met him outside of Damascus. My daughter is from India and though she is now an American, she is still Indian. Her ethnicity didn't change when we adopted her and she became an American citizen. So, Jews would not suddenly become Gentiles just because they lived outside Israel.

                        So you are dead wrong about Paul and the Gentiles. As I have proven and so have others, in the link I provided.
                        .Correction--I meant Paul was of the tribe of BENJAMIN. NOT Abraham. My bad.
                        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                        “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                        "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                          .Correction--I meant Paul was of the tribe of BENJAMIN. NOT Abraham. My bad.
                          Bonnie

                          YES! Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin.

                          Have you read my thread on WOLFMAN49 ?

                          Click here > https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...-matt-13-24-38

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DANNO View Post

                            Bonnie

                            YES! Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin.

                            Have you read my thread on WOLFMAN49 ?

                            Click here > https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/th...-matt-13-24-38
                            No. I am not interested in your "threads." They are too....extreme.

                            Now, what was it about 1 Cor. 4:15 that you think would make me "grieve" the Holy Spirit?
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                              No. I am not interested in your "threads." They are too....extreme.

                              Now, what was it about 1 Cor. 4:15 that you think would make me "grieve" the Holy Spirit?
                              That link on WOLFMAN49 was intended for those who are interested! I had a gut feeling you would give that response .

                              Are you willing to accuse the Holy Spirit (in writing) of Inspiring 1st Cor 4: 15 ??




                              Comment

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