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  • Question for all religions on here

    A Need for Consistency

    As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

    Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

    1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

    Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

    Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

    Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

    Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

    Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

    I am confused.

    If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

    My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.


    If you look at Genesis 35:18.It says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.And if you look at Psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not our souls fly away.I think the correct translation might be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.If you look at the part where it says she was departing.It looks kind of like the we part of Psalms 90:10.So i am still confused.So i would like answers from a jw.And a nonjw.To compare back and forth.

    I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

    Post moved from JW's forum per mod.
    Last edited by Mod20; 06-15-19, 09:24 PM.

  • #2
    For born-again believers to be absent from the body is to be present with God!!

    2Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

    2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

    2Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GISMYS View Post
      For born-again believers to be absent from the body is to be present with God!!

      2Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

      2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

      2Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
      Everyone who of of Spirit is separated from the flesh man in carnality. You cant be in both at the same time, either you are of Him or you are not.
      The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

      Comment


      • #4
        ROFL!!! Are you living in your body or are you dead??

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Batman lover View Post
          Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."
          Greetings,
          Context is everything when understanding the meaning of a verse. Knowing what the original word means can sometimes help as well.

          So context ... (the paragraph containing the verse)
          [Genesis 35:16-21 NASB]
          16 Then they journeyed from Bethel; and when there was still some distance to go to Ephrath, Rachel began to give birth and she suffered severe labor. 17 When she was in severe labor the midwife said to her, "Do not fear, for now you have another son." 18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin. 19 So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). 20 Jacob set up a pillar over her grave; that is the pillar of Rachel's grave to this day. 21 Then Israel journeyed on and pitched his tent beyond the tower of Eder.
          The word in v.18 translated as “soul” in English is ...
          נֶפֶשׁ nephesh, neh'-fesh; from H5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
          So in the context of the story, the word makes perfect sense. Rachael suffered some complications during childbirth and was actively dying immediately after when she named the baby Ben-oni (the name literally means “the son of my sorrow”). The author described the event as ... “as her [nephesh] (breathing creature, animal vitality, bodily/mental force) was going out” ... which various English translators have worded as ...


          [Gen 35:18 KJV] 18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died ) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
          [Gen 35:18 NLT] 18 Rachel was about to die, but with her last breath she named the baby Ben-oni (which means "son of my sorrow"). The baby's father, however, called him Benjamin (which means "son of my right hand").
          [Gen 35:18 ESV] 18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.
          [Gen 35:18 NASB] 18 It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.
          [Gen 35:18 RSV] 18 And as her soul was departing (for she died), she called his name Ben-o'ni; but his father called his name Benjamin.

          There is no sense from any of this that any part of Rachael (except her corpse) remained behind. The use of “her soul” instead of “she” is a distinction without a difference in this case.

          Why don’t you post the next verse (1 Kings 17:21-22) along with the entire paragraph containing it and we can look at what it really says to see if there is really anything to be confused about (except listening to bad teaching).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GISMYS View Post
            ROFL!!! Are you living in your body or are you dead??
            That old man in carnality is dead, the new man od Christ lives. You really cant relate to Christ be in you can you, obvious by your question in ignorance for what it is to be in Christ. You cant be of self and be in Christ at all. Self is the enemy of God and self does not want to relinquish that power over to Him obvious in your elementary question.
            The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GISMYS View Post
              ROFL!!! Are you living in your body or are you dead??
              Romans 14:10
              Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
              - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Batman lover View Post
                A Need for Consistency

                As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

                Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

                1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

                Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

                Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

                Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

                Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

                Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

                I am confused.

                If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

                My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.


                If you look at Genesis 35:18.It says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.And if you look at Psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not our souls fly away.I think the correct translation might be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.If you look at the part where it says she was departing.It looks kind of like the we part of Psalms 90:10.So i am still confused.So i would like answers from a jw.And a nonjw.To compare back and forth.

                I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

                Post moved from JW's forum per mod.
                Because we will get a new body, like the previous, but changed.
                So a writer can make both cases and be correct.
                - Do for others as you would want them to do for you: this is the foundation of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets. -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Batman lover View Post
                  A Need for Consistency

                  My question is this:

                  Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die but in Psalm 90:10 and Job 20:7-9 it doesn't?
                  Figurative use of language.



                  You must understand the old models of what happened at death were either pagan or non-existence. The predominant theological position of the Jews throughout most of the Bible is life ends at death and there is no life after death. As Solomon put it, "The dead know nothing," and as we know from the NT the Sadducees' view was there was no life after death. This is why the mentions of life after death in the OT are few and veiled. The Pharisees' view was the minority view and a position that developed only during the intertestimental period. The other alternative was the "underworld," a place of conscious misery, not life.

                  Jesus came along and although he used the language of Sheol, Gehenna, Hell, and Hades, what he taught was radically new and different. Jesus taught there was simple dichotomy: eternal joyous life or torturous destruction. Jesus taught both body and soul could be destroyed. Those granted eternal life didn't live in misery; no, they lived an incorruptible life with God's own Spirit dwelling within them.
                  All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                  “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GISMYS View Post
                    ROFL!!! Are you living in your body or are you dead??
                    My spirit died when Christ arose in me and I became the temple of God by His Spirit be my own spirit. One cant have His Spirit until that one of self is eliminated. It happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16.
                    The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

                    Comment

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