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Humility

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  • Humility

    "No man can be thoroughly humbled until he knows that his salvation is utterly beyond his own powers, devices, endeavors, will, and works, and depends entirely on the choice, will, and work of another, namely, of God alone."
    -- Martin Luther
    I'm just gonna leave this here...
    "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
    but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
    -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

  • #2
    Yes!!! The big problem is "calvin followers" love and trust in little man's word and ignore God's Word!!!
    Jesus gave us Truth=the gospel to guide us to choose to believe and follow Him. God will not force anyone to believe so make the choice and live.

    Jesus says=“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”4
    John 10:37

    Comment


    • #3
      “If the husband is unwilling, there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.”
      (ref. Of Married Life).

      “The word and work of God is quite clear, viz., that women are made to be either wives or prostitutes.”
      (ref. On Married Life).

      “If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham”
      (ref. Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413).

      “Like the drivers of donkeys, who have to belabor the donkeys incessantly with rods and whips, or they will not obey, so must the ruler do with the people; they must drive, beat throttle, hang, burn, behead and torture, so as to make themselves feared and to keep the people in check.” (ref. Erlangen Vol 15, Pg. 276).

      “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs”
      (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).

      “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
      (ref. ‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. – Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404))

      “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.
      (ref. Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107.

      “Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.”
      (ref. J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248).




      ​​​​​​​I'm just gonna leave these here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Heir of Salvation View Post
        “If the husband is unwilling, there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.”
        (ref. Of Married Life).

        “The word and work of God is quite clear, viz., that women are made to be either wives or prostitutes.”
        (ref. On Married Life).

        “If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham”
        (ref. Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413).

        “Like the drivers of donkeys, who have to belabor the donkeys incessantly with rods and whips, or they will not obey, so must the ruler do with the people; they must drive, beat throttle, hang, burn, behead and torture, so as to make themselves feared and to keep the people in check.” (ref. Erlangen Vol 15, Pg. 276).

        “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs”
        (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).

        “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
        (ref. ‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. – Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404))

        “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.
        (ref. Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107.

        “Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.”
        (ref. J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248).




        I'm just gonna leave these here.
        <Chuckle>

        I see you're unable to address the quote in my OP.

        It seems that you have a pattern of DODGING OP's, and then running away to other texts to try to "poison the well".
        Sad.


        I'm quite confident that you have NO CLUE what the actual CONTEXT of those "quotes" are, and that you didn't find them from studying the original sources. I would bet my life savings that you simply "Googled" them from some "anti-Luther" site.

        ​​​​​​​Am I wrong?
        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GISMYS View Post
          Yes!!! The big problem is "calvin followers" love and trust in little man's word and ignore God's Word!!!
          Jesus gave us Truth=the gospel to guide us to choose to believe and follow Him. God will not force anyone to believe so make the choice and live.

          Jesus says=“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

          “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”4
          John 10:37
          Amen and his way is without sin which comes with the choice and the same signs. works, follow those who do believe.
          The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

          Comment


          • #6
            “No man can be thoroughly humbled until he understands affirmatively that God did NOT some time in eternity see something in him that made him more worthy than his neighbor to be placed on the “A” list. Nor can any man possibly see the righteousness and goodness of God until he understands affirmatively that God also did NOT sometime in eternity throw some cosmic dart at some cosmic dart board to pick who would be placed on that “A” list.”
            – davenoonan

            I’m just gonna leave this here . . .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by davenoonan View Post
              “No man can be thoroughly humbled until he understands affirmatively that God did NOT some time in eternity see something in him that made him more worthy than his neighbor to be placed on the “A” list. Nor can any man possibly see the righteousness and goodness of God until he understands affirmatively that God also did NOT sometime in eternity throw some cosmic dart at some cosmic dart board to pick who would be placed on that “A” list.”
              – davenoonan

              I’m just gonna leave this here . . .
              <Chuckle>

              Your "quote" makes no sense.

              "No man can be thoroughly humbled unless his theology agrees with that of davenoonan" -- signed, davenoon.

              Sure doesn't sound very "humble", does it?

              Meanwhile, everyone's DODGING the OP with a ten-foot pole.
              I wonder why that is?
              "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
              but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
              -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                "No man can be thoroughly humbled until he knows that his salvation is utterly beyond his own powers, devices, endeavors, will, and works, and depends entirely on the choice, will, and work of another, namely, of God alone."
                -- Martin Luther
                I'm just gonna leave this here...
                Ok Cool ! Lets do "H" words. Here's mine for today "Hope" The word "Hope" I take for faith; and indeed, hope is nothing else but the constancy of faith. Off my John Calvin coffee mug.


                Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope, comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. 2 Thessalonians 2:16–17

                I'm going to just take this with me today...


                All men see God in creation but suppress the evidence in sin. Good apologists for the Christian faith always remember that. As you prepare to defend the faith, study the truths of the faith and pray that minds will receive them. And Have Fun!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fool4Jesus View Post

                  Ok Cool ! Lets do "H" words. Here's mine for today "Hope" The word "Hope" I take for faith; and indeed, hope is nothing else but the constancy of faith. Off my John Calvin coffee mug.


                  Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope, comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. 2 Thessalonians 2:16–17

                  I'm going to just take this with me today...

                  Hope is like faith for the future.
                  John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Choose!!! Choose wisely!!

                    Yes!!! The big problem is "calvin followers" love and trust in little man's word and ignore God's Word!!!

                    Jesus gave us Truth=the gospel to guide us to choose to believe and follow Him. God will not force anyone to believe so make the choice and live.

                    Jesus says=“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.============Why not choose to believe and live as a blessed son of God??

                    “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”
                    John 10:37

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Luther quotes do appear to be cut-and-pastes from the webpage, Luther, Exposing the Myth. One doesn't even need to say that the contexts are grossly being ignored (which they are)... there are a number of tedious errors demonstrating propaganda:

                      Originally posted by Heir of Salvation View Post
                      “If the "husband is unwilling", there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.”
                      (ref. Of Married Life).
                      This quote is actually from two different treatises of Luther. The first part is from The Babylonian Captivity of the Church, the second part is from Luther's Treatise on Marriage.

                      “The word and work of God is quite clear, viz., that women are made to be either wives or prostitutes.”
                      (ref. On Married Life).
                      This quote is not from "On Married Life," but rather Luther's Commentary on 1 Corinthians 7.

                      “If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham”
                      (ref. Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413).
                      "Grisar" is not a primary source, but rather refers to a Roman Catholic biography of Luther.

                      “Like the drivers of donkeys, who have to belabor the donkeys incessantly with rods and whips, or they will not obey, so must the ruler do with the people; they must drive, beat throttle, hang, burn, behead and torture, so as to make themselves feared and to keep the people in check.” (ref. Erlangen Vol 15, Pg. 276).
                      Accurate reference to a German source.... how did the quote end up here in English?

                      “To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs”
                      (ref. Erlangen Vol 24, Pg. 294).
                      This quote is actually from two different treatises.Only one of the sentences is found at Erl 24, 294.

                      “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
                      (ref. ‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. – Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404))
                      There is no such thing as "The Wartburg Segment."

                      “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.
                      (ref. Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107.
                      "Trishreden" Trish who? Regardless, this is not something Luther actually wrote.

                      “Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes.”(ref. J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248).
                      "Dollinger" is not a primary source. Dollinger was a Roman Catholic historian.


                      ​​​​​​​I'm just gonna leave these here.
                      Sure, leave them.... but ask yourself where in the Bible God blesses and condones propaganda? Shouldn't an heir of salvation strive to honor God by presenting accurate research?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by James Swan View Post
                        The Luther quotes do appear to be cut-and-pastes from the webpage, Luther, Exposing the Myth. One doesn't even need to say that the contexts are grossly being ignored (which they are)... there are a number of tedious errors demonstrating propaganda:



                        This quote is actually from two different treatises of Luther. The first part is from The Babylonian Captivity of the Church, the second part is from Luther's Treatise on Marriage.



                        This quote is not from "On Married Life," but rather Luther's Commentary on 1 Corinthians 7.



                        "Grisar" is not a primary source, but rather refers to a Roman Catholic biography of Luther.



                        Accurate reference to a German source.... how did the quote end up here in English?



                        This quote is actually from two different treatises.Only one of the sentences is found at Erl 24, 294.



                        There is no such thing as "The Wartburg Segment."



                        "Trishreden" Trish who? Regardless, this is not something Luther actually wrote.



                        "Dollinger" is not a primary source. Dollinger was a Roman Catholic historian.




                        Sure, leave them.... but ask yourself where in the Bible God blesses and condones propaganda? Shouldn't an heir of salvation strive to honor God by presenting accurate research?
                        Remind me not to try to pull the rug over your eyes.
                        All men see God in creation but suppress the evidence in sin. Good apologists for the Christian faith always remember that. As you prepare to defend the faith, study the truths of the faith and pray that minds will receive them. And Have Fun!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Heir of Salvation View Post
                          “If the husband is unwilling, there is another who is; if the wife is unwilling, then let the maid come.”
                          (ref. Of Married Life).

                          I'm just gonna leave these here.
                          Quote snipped.

                          I have read the entire thread. It seems that you are quoting folks from an anti-Luther organization. Not only that, but you didn't take the time to research the so-called quotes and their contexts.

                          You weren't interested in truth, but rather to sully the name of Martin Luther. Christians do not spread gossip, or use dishonorable sources. We can be mistaken, but we always admit our mistakes.

                          Here is yet another problem. You should be careful about what you say because as the Bible says ...

                          King James Bible Numbers 32:23
                          But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

                          Matthew Henry Commentary
                          32:16-27 "Here is the good effect of plain dealing. Moses, by showing their sin, and the danger of it, brought them to their duty, without murmuring or disputing. All men ought to consider the interests of others as well as their own; the law of love requires us to labour, venture, or suffer for each other as there may be occasion. They propose that their men of war should go ready armed before the children of Israel into the land of Canaan, and that they should not return till the conquest of Canaan was ended. Moses grants their request, but he warns them of the danger of breaking their word. If you fail, you sin against the Lord, and not against your brethren only; God will certainly reckon with you for it. Be sure your sin will find you out. Sin will surely find out the sinner sooner or later. It concerns us now to find our sins out, that we may repent of them, and forsake them, lest they find us out to our ruin."

                          There is likely only one person on the planet who knows as much about Martin Luther than James Swan.

                          Can you answer the OP without engaging in division and strife?

                          1 Corinthians 3:3King James Version (KJV)

                          3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


                          Galatians 5:16-21King James Version (KJV)

                          16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

                          17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

                          18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

                          19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

                          20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


                          Ephesians 4:29King James Version (KJV)

                          29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

                          Titus 3:9-11New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                          9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

                          James 1:26New International Version (NIV)

                          26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless

                          Colossians 4:5-6English Standard Version (ESV)

                          5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

                          It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                          Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fool4Jesus View Post

                            Remind me not to try to pull the rug over your eyes.
                            Indeed. He is a treasure.

                            His site:

                            http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/

                            Posters should be wary of posting untruths.

                            God Bless.
                            It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                            Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fool4Jesus View Post

                              Ok Cool ! Lets do "H" words. Here's mine for today "Hope" The word "Hope" I take for faith; and indeed, hope is nothing else but the constancy of faith. Off my John Calvin coffee mug.


                              Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope, comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. 2 Thessalonians 2:16–17

                              I'm going to just take this with me today...

                              Hope is not faith at all, hope is the thing that what you wish will happen. Faith manifests that what you hope for to happen.
                              The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

                              Comment

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