Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

Edited to add more information for posters:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Concerning salvation...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

    I've got no problem with it at all. For about 15 YEARS I was "enabled by God" at times, and rejected Him - until the last time in '63. And if I'd been CONFIDENT of another chance I might have rejected Him then too. "Surrendering" was a tremendous mountain to climb overmantally and emotionally, but things got REALLY BLESSED on the other side. I rejected Him for any number of reasons, mainly that I didn't want to change anything, and I had a VERY distorted concept of what Christianity was all about.

    SImple as that. I don't know why anybody who HAS been Born again of the Spirit would have a problem with the question.
    Perhaps, but someone who died may have. You said " I rejected Him for any number of reasons,"....those reasons were due to life's happenstance. A bas or belief built into your "filter".

    Apparently God broke it down...as your election wouldn't fail God.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

      Perhaps, but someone who died may have. You said " I rejected Him for any number of reasons,"....those reasons were due to life's happenstance. A bas or belief built into your "filter".

      Apparently God broke it down...as your election wouldn't fail God.
      Spoken like a true Calvie.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
        You are full of it.
        You originally cited this alleged Luther quote (as an example of "Luthers[sic] hyperbole") :

        INTOLERANCE OF OTHER CHRISTIANS
        "That seditious articles of doctrine should be punished by the sword needed no further proof. For the rest, the Anabaptists hold tenets relating to infant baptism, original sin, and inspiration, which have no connection with the Word of God, and are indeed opposed to it. ... Secular authorities are also bound to restrain and punish avowedly false doctrine ... For think what disaster would ensue if children were not baptized? ... Besides this the Anabaptists separate themselves from the churches ... and they set up a ministry and congregation of their own, which is also contrary to the command of God. From all this it becomes clear that the secular authorities are bound ... to inflict corporal punishment on the offenders ... Also when it is a case of only upholding some spiritual tenet, such as infant baptism, original sin, and unnecessary separation, then ... we conclude that ... the stubborn sectaries must be put to death."
        Source: Dave Armstrong. "Pamphlet of 1536" in Martin Luther and The Protestant Inquisition
        (Janssen, X, 222-223; pamphlet of 1536)
        1. The phrase "You are full of it" would probably fall under CARM rule 12, a rule you agreed to when you signed up to CARM.

        2. You cut-and-pasted from a Roman Catholic blog. This was part of a larger cut-and-paste you did, which is a direct violation ofCARM rule #21, a rule you agreed to when you signed up, and also CARM rule #29, another rule you agreed to when you signed up. Recall, the rule states, "Links to LDS, RCC, JW are permitted if they are links to their official teaching websites only." The RC blog you used is not official teaching. The links you posted to this RC blog were actually dead (though available via the Internet archive).

        3. In regard to the quote, allow me to cut-and-paste my own words. The Roman blogger you cited refers to "Pamphlet of 1536" found in "Janssen, X, 222-223." This is referring to an old Roman Catholic secondary source (not Luther!), Johannes Janssen, History of the German People From the Close of the Middle Ages,Vol. X, 222-223. This source can be found here. Janssen documents the quote as "the [injunction] of 1536 (published in the Zeitschr für histor. theol. xxviii [1538], p. 560 ff." This refers to Zeitschrift für die historische Theologie, Volume 28. Page 560 can be found here. What's being referred to is a document written by Melanchthon entitled, Ob christliche fürsten schsind, der Wiedertäufer unchristliche Sect mit leiblicher Strafe und mit dem Schwert zu wehren, or, Das Weltiche Oberkeitt den Widertafferen mit leiblicher, Straff zu weren schuldig sey / Etlicher Bedenken zu Wittenberg.

        4. The error of attributing this writing to Luther is throughout the Internet. Whoever originally swiped this quote from Janssen (and I'm fairly certain I know who that was) never bothered to look the quote up to check it. Hence there are now all sorts of web pages claiming Luther wrote it. Shame on Rome's apologists. What can be said of it is that Luther and the other Wittenberg theologians signed the document in agreement with what Melanchthon had penned. For an overview of this document, see: John S. Oyer, Lutheran Reformers Against Anabaptists, p. 173 ff.

        Regards,
        JS
        Last edited by CARM Admin; 08-22-17, 01:56 AM. Reason: alert/post permitted/user should send alerts next time for Moderator to deal with any rule violation

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
          Thanks for the advice Civic.I have seen Swan on the Luthern forum deny and defend anything Luther ever did.
          I have zero respect for him.
          I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. There are a number of things in which I disagree theologically with Luther. There are also things in which I do not support either his attitude or his actions. So, if you have any examples in which I "deny and defend anything Luther ever did," please feel free to share.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by James Swan View Post

            You originally cited this alleged Luther quote (as an example of "Luthers[sic] hyperbole") :



            1. The phrase "You are full of it" would probably fall under CARM rule 12, a rule you agreed to when you signed up to CARM.

            2. You cut-and-pasted from a Roman Catholic blog. This was part of a larger cut-and-paste you did, which is a direct violation ofCARM rule #21, a rule you agreed to when you signed up, and also CARM rule #29, another rule you agreed to when you signed up. Recall, the rule states, "Links to LDS, RCC, JW are permitted if they are links to their official teaching websites only." The RC blog you used is not official teaching. The links you posted to this RC blog were actually dead (though available via the Internet archive).

            3. In regard to the quote, allow me to cut-and-paste my own words. The Roman blogger you cited refers to "Pamphlet of 1536" found in "Janssen, X, 222-223." This is referring to an old Roman Catholic secondary source (not Luther!), Johannes Janssen, History of the German People From the Close of the Middle Ages,Vol. X, 222-223. This source can be found here. Janssen documents the quote as "the [injunction] of 1536 (published in the Zeitschr für histor. theol. xxviii [1538], p. 560 ff." This refers to Zeitschrift für die historische Theologie, Volume 28. Page 560 can be found here. What's being referred to is a document written by Melanchthon entitled, Ob christliche fürsten schsind, der Wiedertäufer unchristliche Sect mit leiblicher Strafe und mit dem Schwert zu wehren, or, Das Weltiche Oberkeitt den Widertafferen mit leiblicher, Straff zu weren schuldig sey / Etlicher Bedenken zu Wittenberg.

            4. The error of attributing this writing to Luther is throughout the Internet. Whoever originally swiped this quote from Janssen (and I'm fairly certain I know who that was) never bothered to look the quote up to check it. Hence there are now all sorts of web pages claiming Luther wrote it. Shame on Rome's apologists. What can be said of it is that Luther and the other Wittenberg theologians signed the document in agreement with what Melanchthon had penned. For an overview of this document, see: John S. Oyer, Lutheran Reformers Against Anabaptists, p. 173 ff.

            Regards,
            JS
            you are simply wrong.

            No conviction,No conversion
            John 16:8
            And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

            Comment


            • Originally posted by James Swan View Post

              I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. There are a number of things in which I disagree theologically with Luther. There are also things in which I do not support either his attitude or his actions. So, if you have any examples in which I "deny and defend anything Luther ever did," please feel free to share.
              You have denied and defended his actions on the Lutheran forum for years.

              You ought to to be ashamed of yourself, but guys like you would have been the ones to carry the green wood to the burning stake.

              You and And people like you are well............I will shut up you like to quote Carm rules.

              I would like to tell you face to face what you are.

              No conviction,No conversion
              John 16:8
              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                You have denied and defended his actions on the Lutheran forum for years.

                You ought to to be ashamed of yourself, but guys like you would have been the ones to carry the green wood to the burning stake.

                You and And people like you are well............I will shut up you like to quote Carm rules.

                I would like to tell you face to face what you are.
                Bigboy, do you realise how this comes across? Do you honestly think that you are being led by the Holy Spirit in posting like this, or is this fleshly anger?

                I'm not trying to get at you, I'm just a concerned brother.
                John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post


                  I would like to tell you face to face what you are.
                  A brother in Christ you should extend brotherly love to big boy
                  His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                    More hyperbole from Luther :

                    Martin Luther




                    Luther exhibited the same vicious hatred and jealousy of the Jews, as later characterized the rule of Adolph Hitler. In early pamphlets, he called upon Christians to take the Bible from Jews, to burn their books and synagogues with pitch and brimstone, and to forbid their worship under penalty of death. He described Jews as young devils doomed to hell who should be driven out of the country. And, in his final sermon before he died, Luther once more called down the vengeance of heaven upon the Jews.
                    I found the above text in an UNSOURCED website on the Internet (which makes you guilty of plagiarism).

                    Since it's unsourced, and there's nothing to support its allegedly accuracy, why are you even quoting it?
                    What evidence do you have that it is even true?


                    Or do you subscribe to the maxim, "If it's on the Internet, then it MUST be true"?
                    "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                    but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                    -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                      You have denied and defended his actions on the Lutheran forum for years.

                      You ought to to be ashamed of yourself, but guys like you would have been the ones to carry the green wood to the burning stake.

                      You and And people like you are well............I will shut up you like to quote Carm rules.

                      I would like to tell you face to face what you are.
                      The irony here is that the tenor of your words reminds me of the attitude of intolerance displayed in the 16th Century.

                      JS

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by James Swan View Post

                        The irony here is that the tenor of your words reminds me of the attitude of intolerance displayed in the 16th Century.

                        JS
                        Yep...
                        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                          I found the above text in an UNSOURCED website on the Internet (which makes you guilty of plagiarism).
                          Since it's unsourced, and there's nothing to support its allegedly accuracy, why are you even quoting it?What evidence do you have that it is even true?
                          Or do you subscribe to the maxim, "If it's on the Internet, then it MUST be true"?
                          Yes, that looks like another cut-and-paste. It appears to be from an Internet page entitled, "The Plain Truth About the Protestant Reformation Protestant Reformation Lessons for Us." In fairness, it could be that "Bigboy" is the author of that web page and is simply citing himself. That's within the realm of possibility. On the other hand, Luther's writings about the Jews is a complex topic. A lot of the Internet clamor over them is just that, noisy propaganda from people with an agenda. Whenever the word "Hitler" pops up, that's a telling sign that an agenda is at work. There are times I would argue that Luther crossed the line of decency, and one of those times was with his later writings against the Jews. But any conversation on this topic typically goes south when "Hitler" is brought in.

                          There is an error in the paragraph that's been cited. The author states, "In early pamphlets, he called upon Christians to take the Bible from Jews, to burn their books and synagogues with pitch and brimstone, and to forbid their worship under penalty of death." This is simply historically inaccurate. In Luther's early writings about the Jews, he went against the culture's prevailing attitude of hatred for the Jews, writing favorably about them in hope of their conversion to Christianity. It's Luther's later writings that boil over with intolerance.

                          JS

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by David1701 View Post
                            Bigboy, do you realise how this comes across? Do you honestly think that you are being led by the Holy Spirit in posting like this, or is this fleshly anger?I'm not trying to get at you, I'm just a concerned brother.
                            I've been watching the intolerance of millennials and college students recently as they knock statues over. Whatever happened to the exchange of ideas? Here in North America, things are going Orwellian at a fast pace... If someone disagrees with someone then: tear them down quickly! On these CARM forums, because I have a contrary opinion, I'm supposed to be "ashamed of myself" and I'm somebody that would "carry the green wood to the burning stake." My opinions are so intolerable that a person needs to find me in-person and chastise me.

                            I don't recall ever interacting with "Bigboy", though I've been on CARM approaching twenty years now, so it's possible that at some point in the past perhaps I hurt his feelings. If so, my apologies.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by James Swan View Post

                              I've been watching the intolerance of millennials and college students recently as they knock statues over. Whatever happened to the exchange of ideas? Here in North America, things are going Orwellian at a fast pace... If someone disagrees with someone then: tear them down quickly! On these CARM forums, because I have a contrary opinion, I'm supposed to be "ashamed of myself" and I'm somebody that would "carry the green wood to the burning stake." My opinions are so intolerable that a person needs to find me in-person and chastise me.

                              I don't recall ever interacting with "Bigboy", though I've been on CARM approaching twenty years now, so it's possible that at some point in the past perhaps I hurt his feelings. If so, my apologies.
                              I'm a teacher, and the fact that these people will quote secondary sources, and clearly biased sources, and not even QUESTION the accuracy of what is stated absolutely amazes me.

                              Have they never had to write essays in school?
                              Did they never have to use (and therefore learn) proper documentation and citation?

                              They are embarrassing themselves.
                              "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                              but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                              -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                                I'm a teacher, and the fact that these people will quote secondary sources, and clearly biased sources, and not even QUESTION the accuracy of what is stated absolutely amazes me.Have they never had to write essays in school?Did they never have to use (and therefore learn) proper documentation and citation? They are embarrassing themselves.
                                It's almost impossible now to either plagiarize or blatantly cite secondary material. The Internet has it all. A friend was telling me that there are programs now that can check papers for plagiarism, and these are used to catch students.

                                Back in the early 2000's I had to actually buy many of the secondary sources because they weren't online. Now, almost everything is a click away. I can recall how entertaining it was here on CARM to get a hold of some of the secondary sources Rome's defenders were using in regard to the Reformation and showing either the bias, the misquotation, or the abuse of the primary source being used by the secondary source.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X