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Bible Texts that are Incompatible with OSAS

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  • Bible Texts that are Incompatible with OSAS

    A preacher at a nearby Baptist church in Winnipeg once bellowed during his altar call: "If you come forward and sincerely commit your life to Chris, you can curse God to His face when you leave this place, but you will still be saved!" OSAS advocates often claim that backsliders were never saved in the first place. But their claim is refuted by contexts that imply that these backsliders had actually received the Holy Spirit. Here are my first 2 examples:

    (1) Galatians is addressed to Christians who "receive the Spirit," and so, "have started with the Spirit (3:3-5)." But some of these Christians with the Spirit have been beguiled by Judaizers into accepting circumcision. Paul warns that by doing so they forfeit their salvation: "If you let yourselves be circumcised, Chris will be of no benefit to you...You have cut yourself off from Christ. You have fallen from grace (5:1-4)."

    This thread will present several texts that refute OSAS, a doctrine that cheapens grace and the cost of discipleship.



    (2) Paul warms believers who have the freedom provided by the Spirit: (2) "Do not use your freedom as an opportunity for self-indulgence (5:13)." Paul then lists sins of self-indulgence and warns believers who commit such sins: "Those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God (5:21)."

  • #2
    1- What is Eternal Life ?

    2- When Jesus says those He gives Eternal Life to will NEVER PERISH and that no one can pluck them from His hand what does that mean ?

    3- When Paul declares the following what does that mean in Romans 8 ?

    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

    For your sake we face death all day long;
    we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

    37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future,nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    4- When Paul says in Ephesians 1 that believers are SEALED with the Holy Spirit as a down payment which guarantees our future of Inheritance for those who are GODS POSSESSION what does that mean ?


    hope this helps !!!
    Last edited by civic; 05-18-18, 12:12 PM.
    His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

    Comment


    • #3
      Its time to discuss the meaning of Eternal Life once again and tear down the strawman OP. Eternal life must not be confused with natural life. Natural life is subject to death and is derived by human generation. Spiritual life has a beginning but no end. The difference is that one possessing just natural life will be separated eternally from God in the lake of fire, whereas the one possessing eternal life will be united and in fellowship with God for all eternity. Separation from God is eternal death and union with God is eternal life. Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldnt really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. No one who has come to faith in Christ will ever be cast out and go to the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in Gods kingdom sealed and is guaranteed.


      Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has Gods life within him.


      It is obvious that eternal life doesnt begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didnt say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.


      Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.


      Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.


      Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.


      Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.




      John 3:16
      16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


      John 3:36
      "He who believes in the Son has eternal life;


      John 5:24
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


      John 6:47
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

      John 6:54
      54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


      John 10:27-30
      "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."
      Matt 25:46
      "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


      1 John 3:14
      We know that we have passed out of death into life,


      1 John 5:13
      These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


      hope this helps !!!
      His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

      Comment


      • #4
        2 Peter 2:1 "But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

        Peter is speaking of those who had been (past tense) bought (Acts 20:28), redeemed, Christ was their "Master" yet later they are "again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
        1 Jn 3:10......... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.........

        Comment


        • #5
          Civic,

          You duck the points Paul makes in Galatians. Please reread the OP and don't duck my subsequent prooftexts as well. Still, I need to thank you for teeing up my next 2 prooftexts:
          (3) You also ignore the fact that "faith" in both Hebrew ("amunah") and Greek ("pistis") also means "faithfulness." No faithfulness, no salvation! For precisely this reason James asks rhetorically: "What good is it if you say you have faith but don't have works? Can faith save you (James 2:14)?" The presumed answer is "Of course not!" because "faith" implies "faithfulness." You overlook this simple philosophical distinction: works are a necessary condition for salvation, but not a sufficient condition. We are saved "by grace through face."

          Civic: "Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ."


          No, it means no one ELSE can "snatch them out of my hand;" it does not mean that Christians cannot forfeit their salvation by proving themselves unfaithful.

          Civic: "Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life."
          Yes, they have it in this life, but they can forfeit it by poor choices. You don't seem grasp how theological language often works in Scripture. For example, consider John 14;13: "I will do whatever you ask in my name." This claim seems patently false until we release that it resumes a host of suppressed premises that govern its application (e. g. praying with faith, praying according to God's will, etc.).

          (4) But again, thanks for nicely teeing my 4th prooftext.: "But I have this against you [the church at Ephesus], that you have abandoned the love that you had at first...Repent and do the works you did at first (Rev. 3:4-5). (4) "Christ then threatens judgment and makes it clear that their redeemed status depends on heeding His warning, so that they might "conquer." "To every one who conquers I will give to eat from the Tree of Life that stands in the Paradise of God (3:7)." Jesus praises the Ephesians for being exemplary Christians who once deeply loved Him. By NT standards, they qualified for eternal life. But they are no longer conquering spiritually because they have abandoned that love. To regain eternal life (symbolized by the privilege of eating from the Tree of Life in Paradise) they must repent and rekindle their earlier love for the Lord.


          Civic: "Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption."

          No, you need to read 4:30 in the light of 1 Thess 5:19: "Do not extinguish the Spirit." The "seal" of the Spirit can be broken if we "grieve" or "extinguish" the Spirit.
          Believers are sealed by the Spirit, but the Spirit can be grieved and extinguished.

          Civic: "Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

          Again, Paul says nothing here about the potential of the believers themselves separating themselves from God by becoming unfaithful. God is love and is still love when sinners choose the road to Hell. God still loves sinners in Hell and indeed loves them so much that He won't force them to repent against their will.













          Comment


          • #6
            Real Believers WILL produce fruit ( ie works Eph 2:8-10) as all good trees produce good fruit and bad trees(unbelievers churchites) produce bad or no fruit. Its real simple born again believers do not become unborn unbelievers. Thats an oxymoron. The warning passages are for the fence walkers those who are pretenders like judas who was never saved but looked like a "believer, follower" on the outside to others but was actually dead inside, unfruitful, dead works etc.............

            PS - everything I posted still stands and makes perfect sense. Not everyone who says lord lord are real believers but fakes as Jesus says " I NEVER knew you depart from Me you workers of iniquity".

            You must take ALL SCRIPTURE into account not your pet verses torn away from the rest of the Scriptures to support you false doctrine about losing salvation/eternal life which is NEVER taught in Scripture.

            hope this helps !!!
            His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

            Comment


            • #7
              Civic, I refuted those points in my last post. Kindly address my refutation verse by verse or I'll just have to ignore your posts and move on to other decisive prooftexts.

              Comment


              • #8
                you refuted nothing and everything I posted exposes your heretical teaching about making a mockery of Eternal Life/ Salvation etc.......

                your false teaching makes Jesus a liar and His promises a joke.

                according to you Jesus should of promised "temporal" life because thats what ETERNAL means to you.

                look up the word eternal and get back to me.................................

                your salvation is man centered whereas BIBLICAL SALVATION is GOD CENTERED and depends upon God not man. Yours is performance based and the works of the flesh is what determines ones salvation which is HERESY.

                its the judaizers all over which Paul condemns in Galatians.

                hope this helps !!!
                Last edited by civic; 05-19-18, 07:11 PM.
                His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Berserk View Post
                  A preacher at a nearby Baptist church in Winnipeg once bellowed during his altar call: "If you come forward and sincerely commit your life to Chris, you can curse God to His face when you leave this place, but you will still be saved!" OSAS advocates often claim that backsliders were never saved in the first place. But their claim is refuted by contexts that imply that these backsliders had actually received the Holy Spirit. Here are my first 2 examples:

                  (1) Galatians is addressed to Christians who "receive the Spirit," and so, "have started with the Spirit (3:3-5)." But some of these Christians with the Spirit have been beguiled by Judaizers into accepting circumcision. Paul warns that by doing so they forfeit their salvation: "If you let yourselves be circumcised, Chris will be of no benefit to you...You have cut yourself off from Christ. You have fallen from grace (5:1-4)."

                  This thread will present several texts that refute OSAS, a doctrine that cheapens grace and the cost of discipleship.



                  (2) Paul warms believers who have the freedom provided by the Spirit: (2) "Do not use your freedom as an opportunity for self-indulgence (5:13)." Paul then lists sins of self-indulgence and warns believers who commit such sins: "Those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God (5:21)."

                  So far, you haven't even come close to refuting OSAS. Reformed theology teaches 'Perseverance of the Saints'.

                  Perseverance of the Saints from the scriptures.

                  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


                  But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).



                  And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).




                  “Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).



                  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


                  I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


                  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


                  “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).







                  “But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).



                  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



                  “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).




                  Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



                  And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


                  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


                  The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


                  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


                  “Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

                  It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                  Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post


                    So far, you haven't even come close to refuting OSAS. Reformed theology teaches 'Perseverance of the Saints'.

                    Perseverance of the Saints from the scriptures.

                    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


                    But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).



                    And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).




                    “Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).



                    Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


                    I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


                    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


                    “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).







                    “But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).



                    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



                    “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).




                    Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



                    And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


                    Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


                    The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


                    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


                    “Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).
                    Evasion and rabbit trail.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by civic View Post
                      Its time to discuss the meaning of Eternal Life once again and tear down the strawman OP. Eternal life must not be confused with natural life. Natural life is subject to death and is derived by human generation. Spiritual life has a beginning but no end. The difference is that one possessing just natural life will be separated eternally from God in the lake of fire, whereas the one possessing eternal life will be united and in fellowship with God for all eternity. Separation from God is eternal death and union with God is eternal life. Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldnt really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. No one who has come to faith in Christ will ever be cast out and go to the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in Gods kingdom sealed and is guaranteed.


                      Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has Gods life within him.


                      It is obvious that eternal life doesnt begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didnt say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.


                      Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.


                      Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.


                      Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.


                      Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.




                      John 3:16
                      16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


                      John 3:36
                      "He who believes in the Son has eternal life;


                      John 5:24
                      "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


                      John 6:47
                      "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

                      John 6:54
                      54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


                      John 10:27-30
                      "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."
                      Matt 25:46
                      "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


                      1 John 3:14
                      We know that we have passed out of death into life,


                      1 John 5:13
                      These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


                      hope this helps !!!
                      You avoided dealing with the verses in the op and ran to your so called "proof texts" for OSAS. In the verses you cite above, the verb "hears" "believes" "follows" etc are all present tense verbs showing a current ongoing action. Meaning salvation is CONDITIONAL that one continues in said action for if one quits hearing believing following then he will be lost.
                      1 Jn 3:10......... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.........

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                      • #12
                        (5) "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord!" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, "Did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?" Then I will declare to them: "I Depart from me, you evildoers."
                        Jesus teaches that Satan cannot cast out Satan and that true exorcisms are performed through the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:26, 28).

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                        • #13
                          5) In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus identifies those who profess faith in Christ but will lose their salvation because they ignored God's will. Those condemned have performed exorcisms in Jesus' name; and Jesus teaches that Satan cannot cast out Satan because exorcisms must be done by the power of the Holy Spirit (12:42-43). So those to whom Jesus declares: "I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers!" have lost the salvation they once had through the Spirit's power. Indeed, Jesus elsewhere tells professing Christians to depart from Him into Hell because they have failed to feed and clothe the needy and visit and care for them (25:42-43).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Berserk View Post
                            5) In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus identifies those who profess faith in Christ but will lose their salvation because they ignored God's will.
                            Where in Matthew 7:21-23 does Jesus ever say they were SAVED ??????????????????????????????????????

                            Matt 7:21-23
                            21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

                            22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

                            23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


                            So much for your false claims they were saved eh ?

                            You are adding to Scripture and we know the warning about those who add to scripture right ?

                            Jesus will add to them the plagues, judgment, punishment, torment etc........ written in this book.

                            Let me know when you can find a person in Scripture who was actually SAVED/ had ETERNAL LIFE and lost it.

                            Let me help you out on that one- ITS NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE. You know why?

                            It would make GOD a liar and His word meaningless and His promises untrue.

                            hope this helps !!!
                            His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

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                            • #15
                              (6) Note carefully that defenders of OSAS have not directly addressed Paul's refutation of OSAS in Galatians. Another decisive nail in the OSAS coffin is provided by 1 Corinthians 9:27, where Paul continues to develop his athletic imagery: "I punish my body and enslave it, lest having preached to others, I myself might be disqualified (Greek: "adokimos")." Adokimos" here means "reprobate" and hence "unsaved" as in its use in Romans 1:28. As the note in the Oxford Annotated Bible rightly points out, the prize is the "imperishable wreath (9:25)," which stands for one's ultimate salvation (see Phil. 4:1; 1 Thess. 2:19; 2 Tim. 4:6; 1 Peter 5:4; Rev. 2:10)." Paul's goal in this athletic contest is to "by all means save some (9:22)." So his comment in 9:27 is ironic: he expresses his concern that, having preached and saved others, he himself might forfeit his salvation due to a lack of spiritual discipline. And if Paul can theoretically lose his salvation, so can any of us. This concern prompts Paul to warn: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12)"--"in fear and trembling" because our "work" may be insufficient. But Paul consoles us with the reminder that God cooperates with our efforts "enabling you both to will and to work for His good pleasure (2:13)."

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