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Id vs. Sin Nature

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  • Id vs. Sin Nature

    According to theory, the "id" consists of our primitive, natural instincts. Id is guided by the "pleasure principle" (or pain avoidance) which principle is that we react to certain stimuli a) without thinking b/c we want b) immediate gratification of our needs or urges. The id is stimulated first and directly by the flesh .. that is, in biblical terms, the id is our "carnal mind." (Ro 8:5-9)

    If we would take a moment to think about the stimulus at hand (in our ego or spirit) .. that is, delay our gratification and consider the moral aspects (superego, heart and conscience/soul) of how we will respond to the id .. we could make spiritual rather than carnal or fleshly decision. And since we ALL have the "law of God written on our hearts, our consciences bearing witness…" (1Cor 2:14-15), this would be the mature way of responding to stimuli as we tend to do as adults who consider the social consequences of carnal, instant gratification reactions.

    Lastly, we are born totally guided by the id. (This would seem to be where Calvinists come up with their notion of "total depravity") When hungry, we cry. When discomforted by a dirty diaper, we cry. We are given no other ability than these id responses. But these responses are given by God for our "good." We are His spiritual "offspring" (Acts 17:28-29). It is our corruptible flesh through the id that leads to the corruption/condemnation of our soul and spirit.

    Now the sin nature is whole 'nother thing. The sin nature is in the soul. Sin nature is learned by adapting our id responses in accordance with what gets us what we want. If that results in stealing, then we have created a sin nature of thievery within our soul which, if unregulated, can become in adulthood, demon possession of the soul. And this is even before we come to know God and His commandments. As Paul recites in Ro 7, when we knowingly sin against God, our soul dies to God and we solidify our intent to do our own will and His only if it is convenient.

    Now when you are saved, you receive the Holy Ghost, the divine nature, and cannot sin in your heart or conscience (1Jn 3:9). That should be the end of sin, right? Wrong .. because there is still the id that, if we respond to it without thinking so we can have our instant gratification, we can sin even though in our heart we do not want to sin.

    So while the Christian is "not in the flesh" if he has the Spirit of God (Ro 8:9), he is not sinless in the flesh either. God calls us to think about what the id receives and react in ways that are godly, not as needing instant gratification but often in delayed blessing!

    Realize that the ego/spirit (mind, emotions, and will), is the battlefield between the id and the superego/soul. You can see this now, can't you? If the stimulus is the gospel of Jesus Christ, God is calling you to reason together with Him in your mind (the battlefield) and open your heart to His salvation from sin and from being a burden to yourself (Job 7:21-22).

    skypair

  • #2
    Originally posted by skypair View Post
    According to theory, the "id" consists of our primitive, natural instincts. Id is guided by the "pleasure principle" (or pain avoidance) which principle is that we react to certain stimuli a) without thinking b/c we want b) immediate gratification of our needs or urges. The id is stimulated first and directly by the flesh .. that is, in biblical terms, the id is our "carnal mind." (Ro 8:5-9)

    If we would take a moment to think about the stimulus at hand (in our ego or spirit) .. that is, delay our gratification and consider the moral aspects (superego, heart and conscience/soul) of how we will respond to the id .. we could make spiritual rather than carnal or fleshly decision. And since we ALL have the "law of God written on our hearts, our consciences bearing witness…" (1Cor 2:14-15), this would be the mature way of responding to stimuli as we tend to do as adults who consider the social consequences of carnal, instant gratification reactions.

    Lastly, we are born totally guided by the id. (This would seem to be where Calvinists come up with their notion of "total depravity") When hungry, we cry. When discomforted by a dirty diaper, we cry. We are given no other ability than these id responses. But these responses are given by God for our "good." We are His spiritual "offspring" (Acts 17:28-29). It is our corruptible flesh through the id that leads to the corruption/condemnation of our soul and spirit.

    Now the sin nature is whole 'nother thing. The sin nature is in the soul. Sin nature is learned by adapting our id responses in accordance with what gets us what we want. If that results in stealing, then we have created a sin nature of thievery within our soul which, if unregulated, can become in adulthood, demon possession of the soul. And this is even before we come to know God and His commandments. As Paul recites in Ro 7, when we knowingly sin against God, our soul dies to God and we solidify our intent to do our own will and His only if it is convenient.

    Now when you are saved, you receive the Holy Ghost, the divine nature, and cannot sin in your heart or conscience (1Jn 3:9). That should be the end of sin, right? Wrong .. because there is still the id that, if we respond to it without thinking so we can have our instant gratification, we can sin even though in our heart we do not want to sin.

    So while the Christian is "not in the flesh" if he has the Spirit of God (Ro 8:9), he is not sinless in the flesh either. God calls us to think about what the id receives and react in ways that are godly, not as needing instant gratification but often in delayed blessing!

    Realize that the ego/spirit (mind, emotions, and will), is the battlefield between the id and the superego/soul. You can see this now, can't you? If the stimulus is the gospel of Jesus Christ, God is calling you to reason together with Him in your mind (the battlefield) and open your heart to His salvation from sin and from being a burden to yourself (Job 7:21-22).

    skypair
    From long ago, the id.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYFr3UyVpRA


    harry

    Comment


    • #3
      If the "Id" is....It was caused by the fall.
      You said above..." immediate gratification of our needs or urges"...That would be selfishness .

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by skypair View Post
        Now when you are saved, you receive the Holy Ghost, the divine nature, and cannot sin in your heart or conscience (1Jn 3:9).

        skypair
        If you are saved..and can't sin in your heart and conscience...Then you can't lose your salvation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
          If the "Id" is....It was caused by the fall.
          You said above..." immediate gratification of our needs or urges"...That would be selfishness .
          Yes! You are getting it! So think about it .. when we inhabit our new bodies, the id will be completely satisfied and there will be no need to take instinctual shortcuts -- to sin.

          skypair

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
            If you are saved..and can't sin in your heart and conscience...Then you can't lose your salvation.
            Excellent! So the consequences of sin will be limited to earthly ones and loss of rewards above (but no condemnation).

            skypair

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by skypair View Post
              Excellent! So the consequences of sin will be limited to earthly ones and loss of rewards above (but no condemnation).

              skypair
              Something like that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by skypair View Post
                Yes! You are getting it! So think about it .. when we inhabit our new bodies, the id will be completely satisfied and there will be no need to take instinctual shortcuts -- to sin.

                skypair
                Kinda like pre-fall.

                Comment

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