Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Why did John write ?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


    And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith,
    did not receive the promise
    - Hebrews 11:39 (NKJV)

    Abraham received a son,
    which means that the author of Hebrews was wrong.
    Originally posted by TomL View Post

    Tom replies

    Hebrews 11:39 (KJV)
    39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
    I have already refuted Heb 11:39
    with the account of Moses, which testified
    that Abraham an Sara had a son called Isaac.

    Abraham did have a son,
    no matter how much you insist,
    that he didn't receive the promise.

    The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
    Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

    Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post



      I have already refuted Heb 11:39
      with the account of Moses, which testified
      that Abraham an Sara had a son called Isaac.

      Abraham did have a son,
      no matter how much you insist,
      that he didn't receive the promise.
      Tom replies

      Except that was not the promise to all these

      Hebrews 11:17-39 (KJV)
      17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
      18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
      19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
      20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
      21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
      22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
      23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
      24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
      25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
      26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
      27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
      28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
      29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
      30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
      31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
      32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
      33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
      34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
      35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
      36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
      37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
      38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
      39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment



      • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

        I have already refuted Heb 11:39
        with the account of Moses, which testified
        that Abraham an Sara had a son called Isaac.

        Abraham did have a son,
        no matter how much you insist,
        that he didn't receive the promise.

        Originally posted by TomL View Post

        Tom replies

        Except that was not the promise to all these

        Hebrews 11:17-39 (KJV)
        17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,


        39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
        Inconsistency is the problem with deceivers.
        The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
        Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

        Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





          Inconsistency is the problem with deceivers.
          Tom notes

          I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves where the deception resides


          Originally posted by TomL View Post


          Tom replies

          Except that was not the promise to all these

          Hebrews 11:17-40 (KJV)
          17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
          18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
          19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
          20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
          21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
          22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
          23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
          24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
          25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
          26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
          27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
          28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
          29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
          30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
          31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
          32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
          33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
          34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
          35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
          36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
          37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
          38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
          39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
          40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TomL View Post

            Tom notes

            I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves where the deception resides

            Tom replies

            Except that was not the promise to all these

            Hebrews 11:17-40 (KJV)
            17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

            39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

            Abraham received the promise, but he did not receive the promise;
            this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.


            .


            The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
            Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

            Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

              Abraham received the promise, but he did not receive the promise;
              this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.


              .

              Tom notes

              You just ignored who was spoken of as not receiving the promise

              Tom notes

              I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves where the deception resides

              Tom replies

              Except that was not the promise to all these

              Hebrews 11:17-39 (KJV)
              17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
              18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
              19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
              20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
              21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
              22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
              23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
              24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
              25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
              26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
              27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
              28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
              29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
              30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
              31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
              32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
              33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
              34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
              35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
              36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
              37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
              38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.



              39
              And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment



              • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


                Abraham received the promise, but he did not receive the promise;
                this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.

                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom notes

                You just ignored who was spoken of as not receiving the promise
                Tom notes
                I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves where the deception resides





                Hebrews 11:17-39 (KJV)
                17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
                39
                And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

                Quoting Hebrews without understanding
                aids satan's cause, which is to deceive.
                The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





                  Quoting Hebrews without understanding
                  aids satan's cause, which is to deceive.
                  Tom notes

                  You still ignore verse 39


                  39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment



                  • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom notes

                    You just ignored who was spoken of as not receiving the promise
                    Tom notes


                    I will leave it to the readers to determine for themselves where the deception resides






                    Hebrews 11:17-39 (KJV)
                    17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
                    39


                    And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:



                    Quoting Hebrews without understanding
                    aids satan's cause, which is to deceive.


                    Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Tom notes

                    You still ignore verse 39


                    39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
                    Verse 39 opposes verse 17.

                    Deal with that inconsistency,
                    rather then lecture me without understanding.



                    Abraham received the promise, but he did not receive the promise;
                    this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.

                    .
                    The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                    Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                    Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





                      Quoting Hebrews without understanding
                      aids satan's cause, which is to deceive.




                      Verse 39 opposes verse 17.

                      Deal with that inconsistency,
                      rather then lecture me without understanding.



                      Abraham received the promise, but he did not receive the promise;
                      this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.

                      .
                      Tom replies

                      Nope

                      Hebrews 11:17 (ESV)
                      17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

                      promises plural not singular

                      Hebrews 11:39 (ESV)
                      39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,


                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                        but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).
                        this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.

                        Originally posted by TomL View Post

                        Tom replies

                        Nope

                        Hebrews 11:17 (ESV)
                        17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,

                        promises plural not singular

                        Hebrews 11:39 (ESV)
                        39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

                        Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                        but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).

                        Abraham received a son,
                        which means that the author of Hebrews was wrong.

                        You have no case.


                        The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                        Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                        Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                          Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                          but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).
                          this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.



                          Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                          but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).

                          Abraham received a son,
                          which means that the author of Hebrews was wrong.

                          You have no case.

                          Tom replies

                          The facts say otherwise

                          Hebrews 11:17 (ESV)
                          17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the
                          promises
                          was in the act of offering up his only son,

                          promises plural not singular

                          Hebrews 11:39 (ESV)
                          39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, Isaiah 53:9-10; Then They made his grave with the wicked, and with rich people his tomb - although he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet the LORD was willing to crush him, and he made him suffer. Although you make his soul an offering for sin, and he will see his offspring and he will prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will triumph in his hand."

                            Comment


                            • All this back and forth - as Isaiah also said, "If they speak not according to the Law and the Testimony, there is no light in them." So - did God Himself give the Ten Commandments - spoken by Him, then written by Him on stone for Moses to have put in the Ark of the Covenant? Who says who gave the Law? I like to believe those who agree with God, Moses and Jesus.. such as Isaiah and Matthew.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                                Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                                but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).
                                this is the word of the Lord according to Christendom.



                                Abraham received the promises (Heb 11:17),
                                but he did not receive the promise (Heb 11:39).

                                Abraham received a son,
                                which means that the author of Hebrews was wrong.

                                You have no case.

                                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                                Tom replies

                                The facts say otherwise

                                Hebrews 11:17 (ESV)
                                17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the
                                promises
                                was in the act of offering up his only son,
                                promises plural not singular


                                Hebrews 11:39 (ESV)
                                39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
                                Receiving a single heir isn't multiple promises.

                                When will the nonsense stop?


                                .

                                The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                                Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                                Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X