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The sinners rights

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  • The sinners rights

    What rights does the sinner have before God ?

    Does the sinner have a right to question God and whom He chooses to save ?

    Does the sinner have a right to blame God that he doesn't receive salvation ?

    Does God hold all the cards ?

    Does God answer these questions for us ?

    Yes He does and its crystal clear what our Lord thinks on these questions. Romans 9

    What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

    19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

    Now watch all the pelagians cry wolf.............................................. ..........

    hope this helps !!!
    His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

  • #2
    Maybe Job below in chapter 42 can teach some of these pelagians a thing or two about God being God and man is not.

    Then Job replied to the Lord:

    2 I know that you can do all things;
    no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
    3 You asked, Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?
    Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
    things too wonderful for me to know.

    4 You said, Listen now, and I will speak;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.
    5 My ears had heard of you
    but now my eyes have seen you.
    6 Therefore I despise myself
    and repent in dust and ashes.

    hope this helps !!!
    His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

    Comment


    • #3
      oh and Peter, Paul and Jude all talk about those whom God has DESTINED for His wrath. see jude 4. 1 thes 5:9. romans 9, 1 Peter 2:8

      hope this helps !!!
      His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by civic View Post
        What rights does the sinner have before God ?

        Does the sinner have a right to question God and whom He chooses to save ?

        Does the sinner have a right to blame God that he doesn't receive salvation ?

        Does God hold all the cards ?

        Does God answer these questions for us ?

        Yes He does and its crystal clear what our Lord thinks on these questions. Romans 9

        What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

        19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

        Now watch all the pelagians cry wolf.............................................. ..........

        hope this helps !!!
        The pelagians cry Merited election. Pelagianism teaches that God elects those who are good. Election is more of a debt that God owes to good people rather than a gift He graciously bestows on them. Pelagius popularized the idea that God elects people on the basis of personal righteousness. Pelagianism is diametrically opposite to what Paul teaches in Titus 3:5–7 and belongs in the trash heap along with all the other false teaching.
        There will be no weeping, only laughter. And as He invites us to come forward, we’ll be prepared to rejoice in the thing we were all created to do—to know and to love God as He has first loved us.

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE=civic;n5772112]What rights does the sinner have before God ?

          There's only two RIGHTS:

          The Sinner has the right to live out his life in any way that he wants (and finds possible), Ignore God completely, and get thrown into an eternal Lake of fire.

          OR -

          The Sinner, when CONVICTED of his SIN, and of Judgement by the Holy Spirit, has to right to REPENT OF HIS SIN, surrender to God, and cry out in the faith that God provides for salvation by the Blood of Jesus.

          Simple as that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by civic View Post
            Now watch all the pelagians cry wolf.............................................. ..........
            Or good people who will genuinely challenge your positions. You quote, God shows mercy to whom he will show mercy.....but you want to make that a blank statement without recognizing Paul in his own writings in has defined to whom HE WILL SHOW MERCY TO. To those who choose to receive the grace of God and not to seek to establish their own righteousness by the works of the Mosaic law. Rom 10:3

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rockson View Post

              Or good people who will genuinely challenge your positions. You quote, God shows mercy to whom he will show mercy.....but you want to make that a blank statement without recognizing Paul in his own writings in has defined to whom HE WILL SHOW MERCY TO. To those who choose to receive the grace of God and not to seek to establish their own righteousness by the works of the Mosaic law. Rom 10:3
              nah its clear there is NONE who seeks God no not ONE.

              so much for the man who "chooses" God eh ?

              IMPOSSIBLE. Jesus said you did not CHOOSE Me but I CHOSE YOU.

              nuff said.........................................

              I'll stick with Jesus and Paul on this one , thanks for your POV though. Its still a leaking cistern that cannot hold water.

              hope this helps !!!
              His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by civic View Post

                nah its clear there is NONE who seeks God no not ONE.

                so much for the man who "chooses" God eh ?

                IMPOSSIBLE. Jesus said you did not CHOOSE Me but I CHOSE YOU.

                nuff said.........................................

                I'll stick with Jesus and Paul on this one , thanks for your POV though. Its still a leaking cistern that cannot hold water.

                hope this helps !!!
                Amen.
                John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by civic View Post

                  nah its clear there is NONE who seeks God no not ONE.

                  so much for the man who "chooses" God eh ?

                  IMPOSSIBLE. Jesus said you did not CHOOSE Me but I CHOSE YOU.

                  nuff said.........................................

                  I'll stick with Jesus and Paul on this one , thanks for your POV though. Its still a leaking cistern that cannot hold water.

                  hope this helps !!!
                  Amen!
                  Who would dare say that Christ's satisfaction merely makes our salvation a possibility? The effects of Christ's satisfaction is salvation itself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by civic View Post
                    What rights does the sinner have before God ?

                    Does the sinner have a right to question God and whom He chooses to save ?

                    Does the sinner have a right to blame God that he doesn't receive salvation ?

                    Does God hold all the cards ?

                    Does God answer these questions for us ?

                    Yes He does and its crystal clear what our Lord thinks on these questions. Romans 9

                    What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

                    19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

                    Now watch all the pelagians cry wolf.............................................. ..........

                    hope this helps !!!
                    One of the most important things about Salvation is that we realize we're not God, and realize how wretched we are. "We are just a lump of clay?? How rude!" But there's no Salvation until we realize we're nothing special; it's the hands of God which make us special. We could have been moulded for common use and God would have been right! The fact that we want to complain about how 'he' moulded us shows that Salvation is of the Lord alone. It also shows that as Calvinists we can't look at ourselves as being more deserving of Salvation than others since we're Elect; as we're often accused of being . The Moulder did it for no special reason in the lump of clay. Glory to God Alone!
                    Last edited by bruisermiller; 01-15-19, 08:35 AM.
                    Isaiah 53:10-11 NKJV 'When You make His soul an offering for sin, God shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.'

                    Providence ~ The red headed Stepchild of Contemporary Theologians...
                    New-Protestant Reformation Dec 2009

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                      One of the most important things about Salvation is that we realize we're not God, and realize how wretched we are. "We are just a lump of clay?? How rude!" But there's no Salvation until we realize we're nothing special; it's the hands of God which make us special. We could have been moulded for common use and God would have been right! The fact that we want to complain about how 'he' moulded us shows that Salvation is of the Lord alone. It also shows that as Calvinists we can't look at ourselves as being more deserving of Salvation than others since we're Elect; as we're often accused of being . The Moulder did it for no special reason in the lump of clay. Glory to God Alone!
                      Yup, we don't have a vote in this Election. This Election simply means "God's choice." The doctrine of election is that, ultimately, it is God's choice that determines whether someone will be saved or lost. But man being man we insists on believing we have a hand in it somehow, someway. Like God doesn't know what He is doing and needs our help. We are telling God "I got this" give me the glory.
                      Last edited by mccafferty1; 01-15-19, 10:19 AM.
                      There will be no weeping, only laughter. And as He invites us to come forward, we’ll be prepared to rejoice in the thing we were all created to do—to know and to love God as He has first loved us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post
                        One of the most important things about Salvation is that we realize we're not God, and realize how wretched we are. "We are just a lump of clay?? How rude!" But there's no Salvation until we realize we're nothing special; it's the hands of God which make us special.
                        Exactly.

                        One of the worst things about the modern "gospel" presentation is that it is only HALF the gospel. It merely says, "God loves you, and wants to save you...." blah blah blah. It doesn't go into God's HOLINESS, or man's WRETCHED SINFULNESS, or the wrathful eternity that all of us deserve for our sins.

                        The Bible starts off with the commandments, and the consequences of breaking those commandments.
                        A presentation such as in Romans starts off with God's holiness, and all mankind (Jew and Gentile alike) under sin.
                        (And even then, people try to twist Rom. 2:6 to try to make it more "positive" and "gospelly".)

                        Far too many Christians don't have a good understanding of what they are "saved" FROM, or WHY.

                        They think it starts out as "God is love", and "man is basically good", or at least "man is well-intentioned", so everyone should have hope for salvation in that scenario.

                        But they neglect (or don't understand) is that EVERYONE is deserving of wrath, and God has absolutely NO REASON (with respect to us) to save us.

                        That God would stoop to save ANYONE is nothing short of God's undeserving grace.

                        People almost think that they are "deserving" of God's salvation, and if God chooses not to save someone, then He "better have a good reason", as if God answers to man.

                        I guess this attitude is a good fit with the "entitlement" attitude we see in the newer generation.
                        We are "entitled" to salvation, many think, simply because God made us.



                        The ironic thing, and this is precisely what happened to me so many long years ago, is that when you get a true understanding of God's holiness and wrath, and a good and accurate understanding of man's wretchedness and sin, and then when you realize that God saved you ANYWAY, DESPITE all that, completely UNDESERVING, then THAT is when the grace and love of God truly makes itself known.

                        "The grace of God is love freely shown towards guilty sinners, contrary to their merit and indeed in defiance of their demerit. It is God showing goodness to persons who deserve only severity, and had no reason to expect anything but severity.”
                        -- J.I. Packer, "Knowing God".
                        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by civic View Post
                          What rights does the sinner have before God ?

                          Does the sinner have a right to question God and whom He chooses to save ?

                          Does the sinner have a right to blame God that he doesn't receive salvation ?

                          Does God hold all the cards ?

                          Does God answer these questions for us ?

                          Yes He does and its crystal clear what our Lord thinks on these questions. Romans 9

                          What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

                          19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

                          Now watch all the pelagians cry wolf.............................................. ..........

                          hope this helps !!!
                          A sinner has the same rights to be without sin that Jesus had that same right. He was tempted just as all sinners are tempted of. Consider how one becomes without sin and you will find that answer with Christ be in you as He was in Jesus who aslo was without sin. In Christ there is no sin, it is those who are without the Christ who are the sinners.

                          And funny is most claim they follow the way of Christ who is without sin yet they are sinners which is impossible LOL 1 John 3:9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin.

                          People need to get real with themselves and ask self are you a sinner? If so read 1 John 3:8, it tells you clearly who you follow.
                          The human side is to claim the promises of God. The divine side is to receive them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                            One of the most important things about Salvation is that we realize we're not God, and realize how wretched we are. "We are just a lump of clay?? How rude!" But there's no Salvation until we realize we're nothing special; it's the hands of God which make us special. We could have been moulded for common use and God would have been right! The fact that we want to complain about how 'he' moulded us shows that Salvation is of the Lord alone. It also shows that as Calvinists we can't look at ourselves as being more deserving of Salvation than others since we're Elect; as we're often accused of being . The Moulder did it for no special reason in the lump of clay. Glory to God Alone!
                            Amen!
                            His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

                              Exactly.

                              One of the worst things about the modern "gospel" presentation is that it is only HALF the gospel. It merely says, "God loves you, and wants to save you...." blah blah blah. It doesn't go into God's HOLINESS, or man's WRETCHED SINFULNESS, or the wrathful eternity that all of us deserve for our sins.

                              The Bible starts off with the commandments, and the consequences of breaking those commandments.
                              A presentation such as in Romans starts off with God's holiness, and all mankind (Jew and Gentile alike) under sin.
                              (And even then, people try to twist Rom. 2:6 to try to make it more "positive" and "gospelly".)

                              Far too many Christians don't have a good understanding of what they are "saved" FROM, or WHY.

                              They think it starts out as "God is love", and "man is basically good", or at least "man is well-intentioned", so everyone should have hope for salvation in that scenario.

                              But they neglect (or don't understand) is that EVERYONE is deserving of wrath, and God has absolutely NO REASON (with respect to us) to save us.

                              That God would stoop to save ANYONE is nothing short of God's undeserving grace.

                              People almost think that they are "deserving" of God's salvation, and if God chooses not to save someone, then He "better have a good reason", as if God answers to man.

                              I guess this attitude is a good fit with the "entitlement" attitude we see in the newer generation.
                              We are "entitled" to salvation, many think, simply because God made us.



                              The ironic thing, and this is precisely what happened to me so many long years ago, is that when you get a true understanding of God's holiness and wrath, and a good and accurate understanding of man's wretchedness and sin, and then when you realize that God saved you ANYWAY, DESPITE all that, completely UNDESERVING, then THAT is when the grace and love of God truly makes itself known.

                              "The grace of God is love freely shown towards guilty sinners, contrary to their merit and indeed in defiance of their demerit. It is God showing goodness to persons who deserve only severity, and had no reason to expect anything but severity.”
                              -- J.I. Packer, "Knowing God".
                              Excellent !
                              His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

                              Comment

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