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A Few Bondage... Definitions

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  • A Few Bondage... Definitions

    Luther defines Free will as "is not a certain small degree of endeavor or desire only, but a full and free ability and power to do all things, without the grace God and without the Holy Spirit." First, I don't know anyone who realizes this is what he meant vs. what we see as the exercise of the will in the Bible (Deut 30:19, for instance). No one, for instance, thinks they can be saved without having the Spirit, that is, without believing the word of God (see below) and the gospel. And The Spirit is the grace of God.

    "Thus it pleased God -- not to give the Spirit without the Word, but through the Word..." BINGO! Believing the Word is receiving the Spirit .. and that is the "power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes..." the Word. (Ro 1:16)

    Again, "For in the New Testament, The gospel is preached ... by which are offered unto us the Spirit, grace;..." Do you now see where I come up with what I say about Spirit = grace = the Word of God? And, of course, EVERY Calvinist will admit that if they have the Spirit and grace, they have the ABILITY to believe and be saved, right?

    The problem is that belief doesn't save! And so having the Spirit doesn't regenerate either!

    skypair

  • #2
    Are you getting this, Calvies? It is obvious that everyone who has heard the gospel has the Spirit and grace of God, the power of God, with which to freely choose salvation .. or condemnation -- "life and blessings, death and cursing" per Deut 30:19.

    skypair

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by skypair View Post
      Are you getting this, Calvies? It is obvious that everyone who has heard the gospel has the Spirit and grace of God, the power of God, with which to freely choose salvation .. or condemnation -- "life and blessings, death and cursing" per Deut 30:19.

      skypair
      Obviously, you haven't convinced anyone of your false teachings.
      "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
      but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
      -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
        Obviously, you haven't convinced anyone of your false teachings.
        That's OK. These facts are kind of a conversation stopper, aren't they? Only Calvinists think that they are "particularly called" by the gospel.

        By the way, you ought to change your avatar pic to Luther .. you argue just like him in "Bondage of the Will".

        skypair

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by skypair View Post

          That's OK. These facts are kind of a conversation stopper, aren't they?
          <Chuckle>

          I've seen many things in your posts.

          But one thing that has NEVER been in your posts are "facts".

          Only Calvinists think that they are "particularly called" by the gospel.
          Another FALSE CLAIM by you.
          Why do you think it is proper to MISREPRESENT others?

          By the way, you ought to change your avatar pic to Luther .. you argue just like him in "Bondage of the Will".
          Luther was a wonderful Christian (albeit with flaws), who understood the gospel a thousand times better than you do.
          "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
          but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
          -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by skypair View Post

            That's OK. These facts are kind of a conversation stopper, aren't they? Only Calvinists think that they are "particularly called" by the gospel.

            By the way, you ought to change your avatar pic to Luther .. you argue just like him in "Bondage of the Will".

            skypair
            Facts can be a conversation stopper but those aren't really facts. I rarely talk with you not because of your facts but because the lack there of; and due to the meaningless of the effort lost in the vanity...
            New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

            I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

              Facts can be a conversation stopper but those aren't really facts. I rarely talk with you not because of your facts but because the lack there of; and due to the meaningless of the effort lost in the vanity...
              Ditto.

              I sometimes wonder if he's here because he's lonely and he stirs it just to get a response.
              John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                Luther was a wonderful Christian (albeit with flaws), who understood the gospel a thousand times better than you do.
                Only free moral agents can receive salvation, theo.

                skypair

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post
                  Facts can be a conversation stopper but those aren't really facts.
                  So are you claiming that what Luther said and that I quoted are not facts? Bc all I did was summarize his "facts" (or maybe opinions) as "Spirit = Word of God = grace." And I also said that nobody believes that man can save himself or be saved without believing the Spirit and the gospel which is what Luther claims free will means.

                  skypair

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by David1701 View Post
                    I sometimes wonder if he's here because he's lonely and he stirs it just to get a response.
                    It is truly b/c I believe that Calvinism and Reform Theology are unbiblical in their gospel and need to be corrected. Over the years I have presented hundreds of reasons why this is so .. and all I get in reply is the same old select passages with no addressing of my points.

                    skypair

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skypair View Post
                      Only free moral agents can receive salvation, theo.

                      skypair
                      <Chuckle>

                      You have no clue what you're talking about, skypair.

                      Please quote the BIBLE VERSE that says, "only free moral agents can receive salvation".
                      I won't hold my breath.
                      "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                      but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                      -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skypair View Post
                        It is truly b/c I believe that Calvinism and Reform Theology are unbiblical in their gospel and need to be corrected.

                        skypair
                        Well, you are wrong.

                        And the facts that (1) Calvinism is thoroughly Biblical, through and through, and (2) your teachings are thoroughly UNBIBLICAL, proves it.


                        Again, please quote the imaginary verse that allegedly teaches "only free moral agents can receive salvation".

                        Is it in the book of "2nd Opinions"?
                        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skypair View Post

                          That's OK. These facts are kind of a conversation stopper, aren't they? Only Calvinists think that they are "particularly called" by the gospel.

                          By the way, you ought to change your avatar pic to Luther .. you argue just like him in "Bondage of the Will".

                          skypair
                          What you have presented is not facts. It's more speculation which you allow to turn into a state of complete misrepresentation. And... you do it on purpose as far as I can tell.

                          You haven't read the Bondage of the Will, or you'd stop misrepresenting Luther. And Calvinists.

                          It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                          Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by skypair View Post
                            Only free moral agents can receive salvation, theo.

                            skypair
                            It seems you are mistaken. Where does the Bible talk about only free moral agents can receive salvation? Chapter, verse please. You should also understand that Martin Luther was not a Calvinist. We have some great Lutherans who post on CARM regularly.
                            It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                            Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by skypair View Post
                              It is truly b/c I believe that Calvinism and Reform Theology are unbiblical in their gospel and need to be corrected. Over the years I have presented hundreds of reasons why this is so .. and all I get in reply is the same old select passages with no addressing of my points.

                              skypair
                              This is untrue. How successful have you been in changing anyone's mind? I've not seen anyone in the 7 years I have been here. Hundreds of reasons? Does that include your teaching of all male souls, 5 resurrections, 2+salvations, and/or

                              Originally posted by skypair View Post
                              OK, here's the evidence:
                              1. The Holy Ghost could not come until Christ had been glorified. Until then, the Holy Spirit could be received. (Lk 11:13, Jn 7:39)
                              2. No one believing the Bible/HS calls Jesus accursed BUT only those having the Holy Ghost can call Him "Lord." (1Cor 12:3)
                              3. The Holy Spirit/Scriptures reveal God (1Cor 2:10) .. the Holy Ghost/Comforter teaches understanding (2Cor 2:13, Jn 14:26, 16:13) of all truth.
                              4. The Holy Ghost of Jesus Christ was His resurrection body = Holy Spirit + flesh, not flesh and blood which cannot inherit the kingdom (1Cor 15:50). Therefore, we too have a "resurrection body" yet to be revealed that is Holy Spirit + our flesh. It will appear in the rapture.
                              5. "Filling" of the Holy Spirit is of the knowledge of God and "filling" of the Holy Ghost is of the knowledge of Christ (Lk 1:41, 1:67).
                              6. "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan [His baptism] and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness." (Lk 4:1) My understanding is that Israel's baptism in the Red Sea, was prefiguring Christ's baptism and temptation .. followed by the commencement of His ministry/kingdom (Lk 4:14-17).
                              7. The pouring out of the Spirit means the pouring out of the knowledge of God .. of the Holy Ghost means of the knowledge of Christ. So there is
                              a) "pouring out" of the Holy Spirit on the Jews (Acts 2:17-18) or "fell upon .. poured out" of the Holy Ghost on the Gentiles who were not familiar with the Scriptures (Acts 10:44-45, 11:15
                              b) "filling" of those who believe (Acts 2:4, 4:8, 6:3, etc.), and
                              c) receiving of the Holy Ghost by those who "repent unto life." (Jn 20:22, Acts 2:38, 8:15, 10:47, 18:13, 19:2-4)


                              and




                              Originally posted by skypair View Post
                              That's right. There are 100's of different Christian "faiths" out there but only one saves. "And with many other words did [Peter] testify and exhort saying, 'Save yourselves from this perverse generation.'" (Acts 2:40) If you get it wrong, you are part of the perverse generation and not part of the saved.

                              Calvinists will say he was talking to us about Arminians .. Arminians will say Peter was talking to us about the Calvinists. Actually, they are both perversions of what Peter had just got done preaching — repentance unto salvation (Acts 2:38) .. not "faith alone."

                              Do you see it? YOU choose what you believe and how you will respond to God in faith. The question is, how does God command us to respond? It's with repentance (Psa 34:8, Isa 55:7, Acts 2:38, 3:19, 11:18, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20) turning from our old life of sin and receiving the new life in Christ. Don't let any theology convince you otherwise .. God is very explicit on this both in the OT and in the NT.

                              skypair

                              It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                              Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                              Comment

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