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The False Accusation That “God Causes The Sinful Acts Of Man” Explained!!!

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  • The False Accusation That “God Causes The Sinful Acts Of Man” Explained!!!

    If Calvinists believed that mans will is free then this accusation would be accurate, but they do not believe mans will is free! This is why the accusation, that God causes the sinful actions of man, can not stick!

    Freewillers falsely assume that Calvinists start with the same premise they do, but Calvinists do not start with the preconceived idea that mans will is free! They start with the biblical idea that mans will is in bondage to sin. This means that God does not have to exert any energy, at all, in order to ordain that sin come to pass! Therefore God is not the cause of sinful actions in Calvinism. It’s a false accusation.

    Man does this naturally from within himself, especially if God does not exert any energy to restrain them. Therefore when God ordains that a man sin, in order to bring about a purpose, God is not at fault because the choice to sin was mans “free choice” that naturally originated from within the man alone!

    God does not have to actively force natural sinners to sin... they do it naturally!

    Now you can stop assuming that Calvinists believe that mans will is free... because they don’t!
    God can ordain sin, without being the cause of sin, because of the doctrine of Total Depravity
    2 Timothy 2:24-26

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sketo View Post
    ...
    They (Calvinists) start with the biblical idea that mans will is in bondage to sin. This means that God does not have to exert any energy, at all, in order to ordain that sin come to pass!
    Underline mine.

    Who meticulously determined that man's will is in bondage to sin in order that sin come to pass?
    1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sketo View Post
      If Calvinists believed that mans will is free then this accusation would be accurate, but they do not believe mans will is free! This is why the accusation, that God causes the sinful actions of man, can not stick!

      Freewillers falsely assume that Calvinists start with the same premise they do, but Calvinists do not start with the preconceived idea that mans will is free! They start with the biblical idea that mans will is in bondage to sin. This means that God does not have to exert any energy, at all, in order to ordain that sin come to pass! Therefore God is not the cause of sinful actions in Calvinism. It’s a false accusation.

      Man does this naturally from within himself, especially if God does not exert any energy to restrain them. Therefore when God ordains that a man sin, in order to bring about a purpose, God is not at fault because the choice to sin was mans “free choice” that naturally originated from within the man alone!

      God does not have to actively force natural sinners to sin... they do it naturally!

      Now you can stop assuming that Calvinists believe that mans will is free... because they don’t!
      God can ordain sin, without being the cause of sin, because of the doctrine of Total Depravity
      It's the Doctrine of the Hardening of the Heart. The name alone sounds like an active engagement from God to harden hearts; but the example is that of Clay. Work the Clay and it is soft but take your hands off it and it will harden. Sure; God Purposes to harden us but he does it by giving us up to ourselves...
      New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

      I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
        Underline mine.

        Who meticulously determined that man's will is in bondage to sin in order that sin come to pass?
        No true Christian can escape the Providence of God; even if they're like you and minimize it out of sight. Minimizing it out of sight is not minimizing it out of existence when you believe in Providence. When God steers a kings heart like he steers a river; that's Providence. Even if Providence is indiscriminate like a slope the water follows down hill, the Bible says that God is behind it. No matter how small your view of Providence is, as long as you believe in it, you must accept God is in charge...

        Christians have been accepting the Hand of God since forever...
        Last edited by bruisermiller; 02-04-19, 08:30 AM.
        New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

        I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

          No true Christian can escape the Providence of God; even if they are like you and minimize it out of sight. Minimizing it out of sight is not minimizing it out of existence when you say you believe in Providence. When God steers a kings heart like he steers a river; that's Providence. Even if Providence is indiscriminate like a slope the water follows down hill, the Bible says that God is behind it. No matter how small your view of Providence is, as long as you believe in it, God is in charge...

          Christians have been accepting the Hand of God since forever...
          Logical conclusion, God is behind steering man to sin.
          1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
            Logical conclusion, God is behind steering man to sin.
            God is behind everything because he has Good 'Meaning' in everything; we mean it for Evil...
            New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

            I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sketo View Post
              If Calvinists believed that mans will is free then this accusation would be accurate, but they do not believe mans will is free! This is why the accusation, that God causes the sinful actions of man, can not stick!

              Freewillers falsely assume that Calvinists start with the same premise they do, but Calvinists do not start with the preconceived idea that mans will is free! They start with the biblical idea that mans will is in bondage to sin. This means that God does not have to exert any energy, at all, in order to ordain that sin come to pass! Therefore God is not the cause of sinful actions in Calvinism. It’s a false accusation.

              Man does this naturally from within himself, especially if God does not exert any energy to restrain them. Therefore when God ordains that a man sin, in order to bring about a purpose, God is not at fault because the choice to sin was mans “free choice” that naturally originated from within the man alone!

              God does not have to actively force natural sinners to sin... they do it naturally!

              Now you can stop assuming that Calvinists believe that mans will is free... because they don’t!
              God can ordain sin, without being the cause of sin, because of the doctrine of Total Depravity
              Tom notes

              Actually Compatibilists Calvinist do claim men's will is free

              RC Sproul for example states he does not know a Augustinian who does not believe men's will is free

              The name for his belief is called compatibilist free will

              Basically man's will is determined by God and man just "freely" acts according to that will

              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom notes

                Actually Compatibilists Calvinist do claim men's will is free

                RC Sproul for example states he does not know a Augustinian who does not believe men's will is free

                The name for his belief is called compatibilist free will

                Basically man's will is determined by God and man just "freely" acts according to that will
                Yes; we have to beware of Hyper Calvinism creeping into our Paradigm...
                New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

                I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                  Yes; we have to beware of Hyper Calvinism creeping into our Paradigm...
                  Tom asks

                  Are you stating R C Sproul was a hyper Calvinist ?

                  Seventhday has stated similar Is he a hyper Calvinist as well ?
                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sketo View Post
                    If Calvinists believed that mans will is free then this accusation would be accurate, but they do not believe mans will is free! This is why the accusation, that God causes the sinful actions of man, can not stick!

                    Freewillers falsely assume that Calvinists start with the same premise they do, but Calvinists do not start with the preconceived idea that mans will is free! They start with the biblical idea that mans will is in bondage to sin. This means that God does not have to exert any energy, at all, in order to ordain that sin come to pass! Therefore God is not the cause of sinful actions in Calvinism. It’s a false accusation.

                    Man does this naturally from within himself, especially if God does not exert any energy to restrain them. Therefore when God ordains that a man sin, in order to bring about a purpose, God is not at fault because the choice to sin was mans “free choice” that naturally originated from within the man alone!

                    God does not have to actively force natural sinners to sin... they do it naturally!

                    Now you can stop assuming that Calvinists believe that mans will is free... because they don’t!
                    God can ordain sin, without being the cause of sin, because of the doctrine of Total Depravity
                    No worries. Start with Yahweh is perfectly righteous and perfectly correct in all of His Judgments.

                    Realize that His Ways are so far beyond man's ways that no man here can grasp nor comprehend even 0.0000000000000000000000001%

                    So if Yahweh WANTS to stir things up, He Can, without sin Himself, whenever He Wants To.

                    (it doesn't really matter or change anything, whatever a's or c's think, nor any of man's temporary groups, does it? )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TomL View Post

                      Tom asks

                      Are you stating R C Sproul was a hyper Calvinist ?

                      Seventhday has stated similar Is he a hyper Calvinist as well ?
                      Sproul was not a hyper calvinist and seventh day is not a evangelical
                      New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

                      I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                        Sproul was not a hyper calvinist and seventh day is not a evangelical
                        Tom notes

                        Well R C Sproul did teach compatibalist free will

                        That is man freely follows the will God determined he should have

                        and that is determinism

                        PS I did ask if Seventh day is an evangelical
                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TomL View Post

                          Tom notes

                          Well R C Sproul did teach compatibalist free will

                          That is man freely follows the will God determined he should have

                          and that is determinism

                          PS I did ask if Seventh day is an evangelical
                          Compatibalism is Soft Determinism, and all who believe in Providence at least believe in Soft Determinism...
                          New-Protestant Reformation ~ Dec 2009 - ____

                          I'm a Christian. An Evangelical, Reformed, Independent Fundamental Baptist; a New Calvinist...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                            Compatibalism is Soft Determinism, and all who believe in Providence at least believe in Soft Determinism...
                            Tom notes

                            It still is determinism

                            and if it is determinism it still makes God the author of man's sin

                            Libertarian free will however correctly makes man responsible for his own sin
                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

                              God is behind everything because he has Good 'Meaning' in everything; we mean it for Evil...
                              God is behind steering man to sin because he has Good 'Meaning'; yet, God is not the cause of the sinful acts of man, as stated in OP?
                              1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                              Comment

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