Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

The False Accusation That “God Causes The Sinful Acts Of Man” Explained!!!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post




    The word of God defined the apostolic canon,
    but the one who cannot substantiate the Roman Canon
    is blatantly disobedient to
    this CLEAR BINDING APOSTOLIC INSTRUCTION:


    that you may learn in us
    not to go BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
    (1 Cor 4:6)

    by the foundational apostles and prophets (Eph 2:20).

    Where are those witnesses for the Roman Canon?
    Admitted defeat by changing the subject.

    Cannot supply any witnesses for Luke's non-apostolic fables.


    .
    Tom replies

    So where does the word of God define your canon ?


    BTW

    1 Corinthians 4:6 (KJV)
    6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


    says nothing at all about the content of the canon

    Nor does

    Ephesians 2:20 (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    Other than that Luke was know as a traveling companion to the apostle Paul
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment


    • CLEAR BINDING APOSTOLIC INSTRUCTION:

      that you may learn in us
      not to go BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
      (1 Cor 4:6)

      Originally posted by TomL View Post

      Tom replies

      So where does the word of God define your canon ?


      says nothing at all about the content of the canon

      Nor does

      Ephesians 2:20 (KJV)
      20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

      Other than that Luke was know as a traveling companion to the apostle Paul
      Those who are intoxicated on poisonous tares
      (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2) cannot understand
      that the foundational apostles and prophets
      should be in the canon and no one else.

      Where are the witnesses for Luke the Greek's fables?


      that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
      (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

      Paul's travelling companion and physician
      wasn't a FOUNDATIONAL apostle.
      Christendom added Luke's fables to the apostolic word of God.




      The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
      Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

      Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
        CLEAR BINDING APOSTOLIC INSTRUCTION:

        that you may learn in us
        not to go BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
        (1 Cor 4:6)



        Those who are intoxicated on poisonous tares
        (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2) cannot understand
        that the foundational apostles and prophets
        should be in the canon and no one else.

        Where are the witnesses for Luke the Greek's fables?


        that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
        (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

        Paul's travelling companion and physician
        wasn't a FOUNDATIONAL apostle.
        Christendom added Luke's fables to the apostolic word of God.



        Tom replies

        He was a witness of a foundational apostle

        and you have no evidence of fable

        …………………………….

        So where does the word of God define your canon ?


        says nothing at all about the content of the canon

        Nor does

        Ephesians 2:20 (KJV)
        20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner
        stone
        ;

        Other than that Luke was know as a traveling companion to the apostle Paul

        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

          CLEAR BINDING APOSTOLIC INSTRUCTION:

          that you may learn in us
          not to go BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
          (1 Cor 4:6)



          Those who are intoxicated on poisonous tares
          (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2) cannot understand
          that the foundational apostles and prophets
          should be in the canon and no one else.

          Where are the witnesses for Luke the Greek's fables?


          that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
          (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

          Paul's travelling companion and physician
          wasn't a FOUNDATIONAL apostle.
          Christendom added Luke's fables to the apostolic word of God.


          Tom replies

          He was a witness of a foundational apostle

          and you have no evidence of fable
          That means nothing and you know it.


          .
          Last edited by Conqueror; 02-17-19, 06:50 AM.
          The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
          Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

          Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





            That means nothing and you know it.


            .
            Tom replies

            No I don't

            Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

            For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

            The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

            The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

              Where are the witnesses for Luke the Greek's fables?

              that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
              (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

              Originally posted by TomL View Post

              Tom replies

              No I don't

              Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

              For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

              The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

              The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.
              I don't care for your history lesson.
              Roman Catholics also depend on history to spread their deception.

              I asked for those foundational witnesses for Luke's Pentecost etc.
              Keep in mind that Luke wasn't present there (Luke 1:3)


              Since the inspiration of Luke is BEYOND QUESTIONING,
              it should be easy to supply those witnesses.


              that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
              (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)







              .
              Last edited by Conqueror; 02-17-19, 03:20 PM. Reason: spelling
              The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
              Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

              Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post




                I don't care for your history lesson.
                Roman Catholics also depend on history to spread their deception.

                I asked for those foundational witnesses for Luke's Pentecost etc.
                Keep in mind that Luke wasn't present there (Luke 1:3)


                Since the inspiration of Luke is BEYOND QUESTIONING,
                it should be easy to supply those witnesses.


                that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)







                .
                Tom notes

                Wasn't present where ?

                Luke 1:2-3 (KJV)
                2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
                3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

                Where are your witnesses for your canon

                Two thousand years of spirit filled believers confirm the canon we have

                Yours none
                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment



                • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                  I don't care for your history lesson.
                  Roman Catholics also depend on history to spread their deception.

                  I asked for those foundational witnesses for Luke's Pentecost etc.
                  Keep in mind that Luke wasn't present there (Luke 1:3)


                  Since the inspiration of Luke is BEYOND QUESTIONING,
                  it should be easy to supply those witnesses.


                  that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                  (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

                  Originally posted by TomL View Post

                  Tom notes

                  Wasn't present where ?

                  Luke 1:2-3 (KJV)
                  2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
                  3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
                  It should be easy for you to supply those two or three actual witnesses,
                  since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                  that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                  (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)


                  .
                  The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                  Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                  Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





                    It should be easy for you to supply those two or three witnesses,
                    since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                    that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                    (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)


                    .
                    Tom replies

                    What did you do with 2000 years of spirit filled believers

                    and the fact you have no support for your canon

                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment



                    • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                      It should be easy for you to supply those two or three witnesses,
                      since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                      that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                      (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

                      Originally posted by TomL View Post

                      Tom replies

                      What did you do with 2000 years of spirit filled believers

                      and the fact you have no support for your canon
                      History doesn't confirm Luke's Pentecost.
                      nor does an attack on my theology.

                      Where are those two or three ACTUAL witnesses to Luke's Pentecost?

                      Is anyone equipped to defend their religion?


                      .


                      The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                      Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                      Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





                        History doesn't confirm Luke's Pentecost.
                        nor does an attack on my theology.

                        Where are those two or three ACTUAL witnesses to Luke's Pentecost?

                        Is anyone equipped to defend their religion?


                        .

                        Tom replies

                        Two thousand years of christian history and multitudes of spirit filled confirming witnesses

                        you cannot match that with your canon for one
                        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                        Comment



                        • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                          History doesn't confirm Luke's Pentecost.
                          nor does an attack on my theology.

                          Where are those two or three ACTUAL witnesses to Luke's Pentecost?

                          Is anyone equipped to defend their religion?

                          Originally posted by TomL View Post

                          Tom replies

                          Two thousand years of christian history and multitudes of spirit filled confirming witnesses

                          you cannot match that with your canon for one
                          It should be easy for you to supply those two or three ACTUAL witnesses,
                          since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                          that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                          (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)


                          .
                          The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                          Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                          Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post





                            It should be easy for you to supply those two or three ACTUAL witnesses,
                            since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                            that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                            (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)


                            .
                            Tom replies

                            Once again

                            Multitudes of spirit filled believers over two thousand years of church history affirm the canon

                            They trust God was willing and able to convey his truth to them

                            Your canon no one affirms and it is built on mistrust
                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                              It should be easy for you to supply those two or three ACTUAL witnesses,
                              since you are guaranteed that Luke's Pentecost isn't a fable.


                              that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                              (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)



                              Originally posted by TomL View Post

                              Tom replies

                              Once again

                              Multitudes of spirit filled believers affirm the canon

                              Your canon no one affirms


                              I don't care for your Roman Canon
                              and the decision by multitudes to declare
                              what is acceptable in the Sovereign Lord's kingdom.


                              angels ... will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend (Mt 13:41).


                              .............

                              Where are those two or three ACTUAL witnesses for Luke's Pentecost?


                              that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                              (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

                              Incompetent apologetics alert.



                              The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                              Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                              Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post






                                I don't care for your Roman Canon
                                and the decision by multitudes to declare
                                what is acceptable in the Sovereign Lord's kingdom. [/COLOR]

                                angels ... will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend (Mt 13:41).


                                .............

                                Where are those two or three ACTUAL witnesses for Luke's Pentecost?


                                that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                                (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1)

                                Incompetent apologetics alert.


                                Tom replies

                                Wear your alert

                                You have no support for your imaginary canon

                                There is 2000 years of support and countless multitudes of support for the canon we now have

                                Zero for your canon
                                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X