Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Repentance, Faith precedes regeneration

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Repentance, Faith precedes regeneration

    Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB)
    30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
    31 "Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

    Repentance which of course requires faith if it is to be Godly repentance precedes the getting of a new heart and a new spirit

    and of course a new heart and a new spirit speaks of regeneration

    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2
    Originally posted by TomL View Post
    Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB)
    30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
    31 "Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

    Repentance which of course requires faith if it is to be Godly repentance precedes the getting of a new heart and a new spirit

    and of course a new heart and a new spirit speaks of regeneration
    Define "Regeneration" It's a "Religious Buzz-Word" that appears to have several meanings depending on your paradigm.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      Define "Regeneration" It's a "Religious Buzz-Word" that appears to have several meanings depending on your paradigm.

      REGENERATION The transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Although the concept of regeneration appears in both the Old and New Testaments, the word itself (παλινγενεσία, palingenesia) stems from the Pythagoreans (fifth century BC), who used it to indicate that the human soul does not perish with the body but is born again in new incarnations.

      Kirk R. MacGregor, “Regeneration,” ed. John D. Barry et al., The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).


      3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death. 1B the renovation of the earth after the deluge. 1C the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught. 1D the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven. 1E other uses. 1E1 of Cicero’s restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile. 1E2 of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile. 1E3 of the recovery of knowledge by recollection.

      James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TomL View Post


        REGENERATION The transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Although the concept of regeneration appears in both the Old and New Testaments, the word itself (παλινγενεσία, palingenesia) stems from the Pythagoreans (fifth century BC), who used it to indicate that the human soul does not perish with the body but is born again in new incarnations.

        Kirk R. MacGregor, “Regeneration,” ed. John D. Barry et al., The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).


        3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death. 1B the renovation of the earth after the deluge. 1C the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught. 1D the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven. 1E other uses. 1E1 of Cicero’s restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile. 1E2 of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile. 1E3 of the recovery of knowledge by recollection.

        James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).
        Calvinist here define the word, in the Biblical context, to mean a new life from God which enables you to believe and then receive Jesus and be born again.
        The more standard definition makes it the same concept as being born again when referring to a person. Also known as the indwelling of Jesus giving us His life within..
        by faith we understand...
        Didn't I tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?

        Comment


        • #5
          It appears to me, after a very short searching, that the word and doctrines associated with "regeneration" are manmade.

          If it applies/ means/ relates to being born again, it is better to say born again when appropriate.

          If it applies/ means/ relates to having the heart circumcised by the circumcision made not with human hands (OT and NT), wouldn't it be better just to say so ?

          And so on and so forth - whatever it supposedly relates to or means, speak from Scripture instead of traditions of /and-or/ doctrines about a word not found in Scripture, right ?

          Simpler then to understand, perfectly in line with all Scripture.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SethProton View Post

            Calvinist here define the word, in the Biblical context, to mean a new life from God which enables you to believe and then receive Jesus and be born again.
            The more standard definition makes it the same concept as being born again when referring to a person. Also known as the indwelling of Jesus giving us His life within..
            And in the op passage it follows repentance

            not putting the cart before the horse
            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TomL View Post


              REGENERATION The transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Although the concept of regeneration appears in both the Old and New Testaments, the word itself (παλινγενεσία, palingenesia) stems from the Pythagoreans (fifth century BC), who used it to indicate that the human soul does not perish with the body but is born again in new incarnations.

              Kirk R. MacGregor, “Regeneration,” ed. John D. Barry et al., The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).


              3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death. 1B the renovation of the earth after the deluge. 1C the renewal of the world to take place after its destruction by fire, as the Stoics taught. 1D the signal and glorious change of all things (in heaven and earth) for the better, that restoration of the primal and perfect condition of things which existed before the fall of our first parents, which the Jews looked for in connection with the advent of the Messiah, and which Christians expected in connection with the visible return of Jesus from heaven. 1E other uses. 1E1 of Cicero’s restoration to rank and fortune on his recall from exile. 1E2 of the restoration of the Jewish nation after exile. 1E3 of the recovery of knowledge by recollection.

              James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).
              To a CALVINIST, "Regeneration" is a "Twilight state" between paganism, and salvation where the person is "Enabled" to appreciate their fallen state, but remains UNSAVED until they take subsequent steps.

              To NON-Calvinists, it generally is synonymous with Salvation / Being Born Again.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                To a CALVINIST, "Regeneration" is a "Twilight state" between paganism, and salvation where the person is "Enabled" to appreciate their fallen state, but remains UNSAVED until they take subsequent steps.

                To NON-Calvinists, it generally is synonymous with Salvation / Being Born Again.
                Tom replies

                All hold regeneration and the new birth to be the same thing.
                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TomL View Post

                  Tom replies

                  All hold regeneration and the new birth to be the same thing.
                  You'll want to talk to Calvies about that, y'all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    You'll want to talk to Calvies about that, y'all.
                    Tom notes

                    No I am pretty certain they do not disagree
                    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TomL View Post
                      Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB)
                      30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
                      31 "Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

                      Repentance which of course requires faith if it is to be Godly repentance precedes the getting of a new heart and a new spirit

                      and of course a new heart and a new spirit speaks of regeneration
                      Yes, we Calvinists understand this. So how many have turned from their sins and repented without God's Grace?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ladodgers6 View Post
                        Yes, we Calvinists understand this. So how many have turned from their sins and repented without God's Grace?
                        Brother I posted this earlier but all I received was evasion. Good luck. He used the same verse but changed the question this time lol

                        Repentance itself is not a human act, but comes only from God (Rom.2:4) -- it is a divine gift of God (Acts 5:31; 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25).


                        Rom 2:4
                        Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?


                        Acts 5:31-32
                        God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.


                        Acts 11:18
                        When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."


                        2 Tim 2:25-26
                        Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
                        Last edited by civic; 02-04-19, 06:54 PM.
                        His true identity as both Lord (κύριος used by the LXX to translate Yahweh) and God (θεός used by the LXX to translate Elohim)netbible John 20:28[In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3) refer to the Son. Of the remainder most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent. 1 John 5:20, Wallace

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by civic View Post

                          Brother I posted this earlier but all I received was evasion. Good luck. He used the same verse but changed the question this time lol

                          Repentance itself is not a human act, but comes only from God (Rom.2:4) -- it is a divine gift of God (Acts 5:31; 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25).


                          Rom 2:4
                          Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?


                          Acts 5:31-32
                          God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.


                          Acts 11:18
                          When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."


                          2 Tim 2:25-26
                          Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
                          Its sad that they do not understand that God has done for us in Christ, what we could never do! This is the Gospel that Paul preached. That Christ is the 'FREE GIFT' from God received through Faith Alone (with empty hands). Its the gold bar in the hands that is the treasure, not the hands that receives it).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ladodgers6 View Post
                            Yes, we Calvinists understand this. So how many have turned from their sins and repented without God's Grace?
                            Tom replies


                            Wrong question for a Calvinist


                            Why is repentance shown to precede regeneration

                            Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB)

                            30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

                            31 "Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

                            Repentance which of course requires faith if it is to be Godly repentance precedes the getting of a new heart and a new spirit

                            and of course a new heart and a new spirit speaks of regeneration


                            Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by civic View Post

                              Brother I posted this earlier but all I received was evasion. Good luck. He used the same verse but changed the question this time lol

                              Repentance itself is not a human act, but comes only from God (Rom.2:4) -- it is a divine gift of God (Acts 5:31; 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25).


                              Rom 2:4
                              Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?


                              Acts 5:31-32
                              God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.


                              Acts 11:18
                              When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."


                              2 Tim 2:25-26
                              Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.


                              Tom notes

                              You are skirting the issue

                              Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB)

                              30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," declares the Lord GOD. "Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.

                              31 "Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?

                              How it is repentance is placed before regeneration

                              Seems the dead unregenerate sinner can not only receive the gospel with joy (the parable and the refutation) but he can repent as well

                              Apparently the dead unregenerate sinner can with God's grace (there is your grant) repent and believe previous to regeneration


                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X