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Repentance, Faith precedes regeneration

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  • Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

    Never said it mentioned repentance. Repentance would be covered under commands, decrees, statutes or ordinances until you in your infinite wisdom give me a reason why it shouldn't be and if it shouldn't be then what is it?? Why do you suppose spirit is not capitalized in Ezekiel 18?

    The order in Ezekiel? Will it be much longer?

    Acts 2:38 does not mention the giving of a new heart. Good effort though. What else do you have?

    bump for Tom

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TomL View Post


      Tom replies

      Sorry you are off topic and your argument makes no sense

      This op concerns the order of a giving of a new heart and Spirit in reference to repentancer


      repentance precedes the giving of a new a heart and the Spirit


      Ezek 36 does not mention repentance


      Ezek 18 does

      Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)

      30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
      yourselves
      from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

      31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


      as does

      Acts 2:38 (KJV)

      38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


      so repentance preceded a new heart and the giving of the Spirit


      finally is through the giving of the Spirit (after repentance) one

      Ezekiel 36:27 (KJV)

      27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do
      them

      It is ac useless argument to say Acts 2:38 does not mention the new heart Ezek 18 did

      It is equally useless to say Ezek 18 is not speaking of the spirit when Acts 2:38 did

      Your so called failed 1 & 3 amount to nothing

      The fact I have no obligation to respond to your topic comment shows your so falled fail # 2 is also nothing

      Numbers 4 & 5 is the same I owe you nothing

      My point is repentance precedes the new heart and the giving of the spirit

      that has been established and you have offered nothing to contradict that

      .
      Did not address one of my points. Shocking I know. So I will bump them and give you another chance. For instance, why isn't spirit capitalized in your allged proof text do you suppose? Not even in your precious KJV

      Comment


      • Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

        Did not address one of my points. Shocking I know. So I will bump them and give you another chance. For instance, why isn't spirit capitalized in your allged proof text do you suppose? Not even in your precious KJV
        Tom replies

        who cares

        This is my op and I established my point

        I have no obligation to follow your diversion from the op

        Sorry you are off topic and your argument makes no sense

        This op concerns the order of a giving of a new heart and Spirit in reference to repentancer



        repentance precedes the giving of a new a heart and the Spirit


        Ezek 36 does not mention repentance


        Ezek 18 does

        Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)

        30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
        yourselves
        from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

        31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


        as does

        Acts 2:38 (KJV)

        38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


        so repentance preceded a new heart and the giving of the Spirit


        finally is through the giving of the Spirit (after repentance) one

        Ezekiel 36:27 (KJV)

        27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do
        them

        It is ac useless argument to say Acts 2:38 does not mention the new heart Ezek 18 did

        It is equally useless to say Ezek 18 is not speaking of the spirit when Acts 2:38 did

        Your so called failed 1 & 3 amount to nothing

        The fact I have no obligation to respond to your topic comment shows your so falled fail # 2 is also nothing

        Numbers 4 & 5 is the same I owe you nothing

        My point is repentance precedes the new heart and the giving of the spirit

        that has been established and you have offered nothing to contradict tha
        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TomL View Post

          Tom replies

          who cares

          This is my op and I established my point

          I have no obligation to follow your diversion from the op

          Sorry you are off topic and your argument makes no sense

          This op concerns the order of a giving of a new heart and Spirit in reference to repentancer



          repentance precedes the giving of a new a heart and the Spirit


          Ezek 36 does not mention repentance


          Ezek 18 does

          Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)

          30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
          yourselves
          from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

          31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


          as does

          Acts 2:38 (KJV)

          38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


          so repentance preceded a new heart and the giving of the Spirit


          finally is through the giving of the Spirit (after repentance) one

          Ezekiel 36:27 (KJV)

          27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do
          them

          It is ac useless argument to say Acts 2:38 does not mention the new heart Ezek 18 did

          It is equally useless to say Ezek 18 is not speaking of the spirit when Acts 2:38 did

          Your so called failed 1 & 3 amount to nothing

          The fact I have no obligation to respond to your topic comment shows your so falled fail # 2 is also nothing

          Numbers 4 & 5 is the same I owe you nothing

          My point is repentance precedes the new heart and the giving of the spirit

          that has been established and you have offered nothing to contradict tha
          I have offered enough for the following reasons

          1) Why isn't spirit capitalized in Ezekiel 18? In any translation. Tom refused to answer. The answer is simple and elementary. Its referring to our spirit not the Holy Spirit.

          2) Tom claims repentance is not mentioned in Ezekiel 36 therefore it is not a command, decree, ordinance or statute. I asked what is it then? When God says repent. No answer for obvious reasons. Silly and childish argument.

          3) I asked for the order given in Ezekiel 36 26 and 27. Clearly in verse 26 the new heart, regeneration, is given before the Spirit. Tom does his best to avoid verse 26 by only posting verse 27. Again, for anyone that can read, for obvious reasons.

          4) I asked where the Bible teaches repentance comes from a heart of stone. Again crickets. The Bible is quite clear what does come from a heart of stone and Godly sorrow and repentance is not one them.

          Calvinism wins again. I will leave it to the lurkers to decide.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

            I have offered enough for the following reasons

            1) Why isn't spirit capitalized in Ezekiel 18? In any translation. Tom refused to answer. The answer is simple and elementary. Its referring to our spirit not the Holy Spirit.

            2) Tom claims repentance is not mentioned in Ezekiel 36 therefore it is not a command, decree, ordinance or statute. I asked what is it then? When God says repent. No answer for obvious reasons. Silly and childish argument.

            3) I asked for the order given in Ezekiel 36 26 and 27. Clearly in verse 26 the new heart, regeneration, is given before the Spirit. Tom does his best to avoid verse 26 by only posting verse 27. Again, for anyone that can read, for obvious reasons.

            4) I asked where the Bible teaches repentance comes from a heart of stone. Again crickets. The Bible is quite clear what does come from a heart of stone and Godly sorrow and repentance is not one them.

            Calvinism wins again. I will leave it to the lurkers to decide.
            Amen!

            The other poster has a habit of twisting and/or ignoring Scripture, as false teachers often do.
            John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by reformedguy View Post

              I have offered enough for the following reasons

              1) Why isn't spirit capitalized in Ezekiel 18? In any translation. Tom refused to answer. The answer is simple and elementary. Its referring to our spirit not the Holy Spirit.

              2) Tom claims repentance is not mentioned in Ezekiel 36 therefore it is not a command, decree, ordinance or statute. I asked what is it then? When God says repent. No answer for obvious reasons. Silly and childish argument.

              3) I asked for the order given in Ezekiel 36 26 and 27. Clearly in verse 26 the new heart, regeneration, is given before the Spirit. Tom does his best to avoid verse 26 by only posting verse 27. Again, for anyone that can read, for obvious reasons.

              4) I asked where the Bible teaches repentance comes from a heart of stone. Again crickets. The Bible is quite clear what does come from a heart of stone and Godly sorrow and repentance is not one them.

              Calvinism wins again. I will leave it to the lurkers to decide.
              Tom replies

              except you affirmed you made no statements about the order of repentance and the new heart and receiving the spirit

              That is the point I am making

              If you want to divert from that I am under no obligation to follow you

              Your post is irrelevant

              as stated

              .......................................

              Tom replies

              who cares

              This is my op and I established my point

              I have no obligation to follow your diversion from the op


              Sorry you are off topic and your argument makes no sense


              This op concerns the order of a giving of a new heart and Spirit in reference to repentancer



              repentance precedes the giving of a new a heart and the Spirit



              Ezek 36 does not mention repentance



              Ezek 18 does

              Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)


              30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
              yourselves

              from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.


              31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?



              as does

              Acts 2:38 (KJV)


              38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



              so repentance preceded a new heart and the giving of the Spirit



              finally is through the giving of the Spirit (after repentance) one

              Ezekiel 36:27 (KJV)


              27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do
              them

              It is ac useless argument to say Acts 2:38 does not mention the new heart Ezek 18 did

              It is equally useless to say Ezek 18 is not speaking of the spirit when Acts 2:38 did

              Your so called failed 1 & 3 amount to nothing

              The fact I have no obligation to respond to your topic comment shows your so falled fail # 2 is also nothing

              Numbers 4 & 5 is the same I owe you nothing

              My point is repentance precedes the new heart and the giving of the spirit

              that has been established and you have offered nothing to contradict that
              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom replies

                Will you believe what God has stated or not

                Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)
                30
                Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
                yourselves
                from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
                31
                Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

                Acts 2:38 (KJV)
                38
                Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                Yes, I believe what the scripture states but how we understand it the Holy Spirit reveals it to us who have the Spirit.

                A leopard does not have the Spirit nor can it change its spots.

                God bless you,

                SeventhDay

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                  Yes, I believe what the scripture states but how we understand it the Holy Spirit reveals it to us who have the Spirit.

                  A leopard does not have the Spirit nor can it change its spots.

                  God bless you,

                  SeventhDay
                  Then you believe repentance comes before the new heart and the receiving of the Spirit

                  Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)
                  30
                  Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
                  yourselves
                  from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
                  31
                  Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

                  Acts 2:38 (KJV)
                  38
                  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                  Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                    Then you believe repentance comes before the new heart and the receiving of the Spirit

                    Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)
                    30
                    Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
                    yourselves
                    from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
                    31
                    Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

                    Acts 2:38 (KJV)
                    38
                    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                    Spiritual regeneration comes first! God is not saving the old man because the old man is dead with Christ in his death. Stick with the scriptures!

                    God bless you,

                    SeventhDay

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                      Spiritual regeneration comes first! God is not saving the old man because the old man is dead with Christ in his death. Stick with the scriptures!

                      God bless you,

                      SeventhDay
                      What did the scripture state

                      Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)

                      30
                      Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
                      yourselves
                      from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

                      31
                      Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

                      Acts 2:38 (KJV)

                      38
                      Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

                      will one go by what scripture states or personal opinion
                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                        What did the scripture state

                        Ezekiel 18:30-31 (KJV)

                        30
                        Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn
                        yourselves
                        from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

                        31
                        Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

                        Acts 2:38 (KJV)

                        38
                        Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

                        will one go by what scripture states or personal opinion
                        Is the old man dead or not?

                        Is it the new spiritual man that rises out of death with Christ?

                        Show me in the scriptures where this is so then get back to me.

                        God bless you,

                        SeventhDay

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                          Is the old man dead or not?

                          Is it the new spiritual man that rises out of death with Christ?

                          Show me in the scriptures where this is so then get back to me.

                          God bless you,

                          SeventhDay
                          Romans 6:1-11 (NASB)
                          1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
                          2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
                          3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
                          4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
                          5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
                          6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
                          7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
                          8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
                          9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
                          10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
                          11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

                          It happens after one repents and receives the Holy Spirit
                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                            Romans 6:1-11 (NASB)
                            1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
                            2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
                            3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
                            4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
                            5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
                            6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
                            7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
                            8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
                            9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
                            10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
                            11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

                            It happens after one repents and receives the Holy Spirit
                            It can not happen that way because the old man is dead.

                            Please do not wrestle with the scriptures.

                            God saves first by raising man out of death through spiritual regeneration because the old man is dead but the new spiritual man can believe what Jesus has already accomplished which is saving him!

                            Now, Paul is telling us these things for a reason but there are those who have perverted the gospel.

                            God bless you,

                            SeventhDay

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                              It can not happen that way because the old man is dead.

                              Please do not wrestle with the scriptures.

                              God saves first by raising man out of death through spiritual regeneration because the old man is dead but the new spiritual man can believe what Jesus has already accomplished which is saving him!

                              Now, Paul is telling us these things for a reason but there are those who have perverted the gospel.

                              God bless you,

                              SeventhDay
                              Tom replies

                              The old man is not dead if one has not believed or repented

                              That would be evidence of the old man very much in charge

                              John 5:24 (NIV2011)
                              24 ôVery truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

                              One does not pass to life until one believes


                              Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TomL View Post

                                Tom replies

                                The old man is not dead if one has not believed or repented

                                That would be evidence of the old man very much in charge

                                John 5:24 (NIV2011)
                                24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

                                One does not pass to life until one believes

                                Spiritual regeneration changes the heart and provides spiritual ears, spiritual understanding and spiritual belief.

                                If the old man is not dead then Jesus atonement did not happen!

                                No need to be a walking zombie just let the old man go because he is dead!

                                God bless you,

                                SeventhDay

                                Comment

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