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Do Christians have libertarian free will ?

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  • Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post
    The Lost have some freedom of the Will, Adam and Eve had Libertarian Free Will; but no one has ever had Contra Causal Libertarian Free Will...
    Define terms used (don't assume readers understand).
    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

      Man does not have free will does not mean that God makes choices for man but man makes influenced choices.

      God bless you,

      SeventhDay
      Tom replies

      How if all was determined before they were born without any benefit of foreknowledge ?
      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bruisermiller View Post

        The Lost have some freedom of the Will, Adam and Eve had Libertarian Free Will; but no one has ever had Contra Causal Libertarian Free Will...
        Tom notes

        It's just another term to define the same thing



        Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

          Yes, that IS the question.
          You know it proves your theology wrong, which is why you are RUNNING AWAY from it.



          And I'm saying that you are MISINTERPRETING that verse.

          And your answer to my question above (which you are AFRAID to answer) proves that your interpretation is false.
          That's why you REFUSE to answer my question.

          You ALSO haven't answered my OTHER question as to WHO you think 1 Cor. 10:13 is written to (it's kind of important).
          Tom replies

          Lets say it was written to Christians

          Will you then thus affirm Libertarian free will for Christians ?

          or is that just a red herring

          Do you have any evidence I have misinterpreted it
          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post
            Man can not and does not have free will because he was made for God and can not be independent from him. ... There is no such thing as free will!
            Then your God is not righteous. but creates evil.
            I champion GOD’s holiness:
            - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
            - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

            I champion Our Free will:
            - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

              Man does not have free will does not mean that God makes choices for man but man makes influenced choices.

              God bless you,

              SeventhDay
              Run your theo-babble around the woozle bush all you want - you will only get self confirmation of your mistaken thinking.
              I champion GOD’s holiness:
              - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
              - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

              I champion Our Free will:
              - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                Then your God is not righteous. but creates evil.
                Christ is our righteousness. Right?

                God bless you,

                SeventhDay

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                  Run your theo-babble around the woozle bush all you want - you will only get self confirmation of your mistaken thinking.
                  The "free will" question is a very controversial topic is it not?

                  God bless you,

                  SeventhDay

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                    And I'm saying that you are MISINTERPRETING that verse.
                    Notice my friends that it's never said why TomL has it wrong. Assertions are only made and a sense of obstinacy in regard to answering ANY fair question. Perhaps this comes from a way of thinking for some, not all but some Calvinists never, ever allow themselves to be put on the defensive. I suspect this gets a little old with you the readers though. You know when a good question has been raised and deserves to be addressed and IMO and I trust yours Tom's point was a good one and DESERVED a respectful answer. Sadly it wasn't provided.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                      The "free will" question is a very controversial topic is it not?

                      God bless you,

                      SeventhDay
                      Well if it was/is not by his free will man sins who/what is the cause of all of man's sin
                      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                        Man does not have free will does not mean that God makes choices for man but man makes influenced choices.

                        God bless you,

                        SeventhDay
                        Run your theo-babble around the woozle bush all you want - you will only get self confirmation of your mistaken thinking.
                        I champion GOD’s holiness:
                        - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                        - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                        I champion Our Free will:
                        - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                          Run your theo-babble around the woozle bush all you want - you will only get self confirmation of your mistaken thinking.
                          Tom notes

                          Influences do not constitute a necessity that the will is not free

                          Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                          Comment


                          • When God created Eden in genesis
                            I do not find the terms free will or libertarian.
                            True that adm human could choose. But thatdid not fit the modern definitions of free will.

                            We do find those (satanic) memes come to the fore in the early enlightenment period. And teaching history of philosophy many years I read all the texts. Many times. The same enlightenment the reformation was horrified by and understood to belong to the enemy realm. Not God.


                            end of comment.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                              God gets the credit for all things. Man none!

                              God bless you,

                              SeventhDay

                              Not really.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by e v e View Post
                                When God created Eden in genesis
                                I do not find the terms free will or libertarian.
                                True that adm human could choose. But thatdid not fit the modern definitions of free will.

                                We do find those (satanic) memes come to the fore in the early enlightenment period. And teaching history of philosophy many years I read all the texts. Many times. The same enlightenment the reformation was horrified by and understood to belong to the enemy realm. Not God.


                                end of comment.
                                Tom replies

                                That Adam had a choice or obey or not obey God and could decide to obey or not obey shows he had free will

                                Free is mentioned in the bible and it is mentioned in the earliest church fathers long before the enlightenment or reformation
                                Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

                                Comment

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