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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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  • #76
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

    I see you're evading Jesus words in Jn 6:44
    I see you're evading Jesus words in Jn 6:45
    1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

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    • #77
      Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
      I see you're evading Jesus words in Jn 6:45
      No Im not. I didnt bring it up for discussion. My point is in the verse I bought up to discuss Jn 6:44, You want to evade that verse to discuss another one. Thats evasion at its best. Now once again according to Jn 6:44 does man have the freewill ability to come to Christ ? Simple yes or no

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      • #78
        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        Jn 6:44

        44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

        No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

        It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65


        64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

        65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


        What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

        40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

        Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

        Ps 110:3


        3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

        If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
        Where is the Son?

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        • #79
          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

          No Im not. I didnt bring it up for discussion. My point is in the verse I bought up to discuss Jn 6:44, You want to evade that verse to discuss another one. Thats evasion at its best. ...
          That's context at its best; discussing the verse which comes right after. It's called whole counsel of God as opposed to evasion.
          1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Servant of the Lord View Post

            Where is the Son?
            Huh ? Are you in the right discussion topic ?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
              That's context at its best; discussing the verse which comes right after. It's called whole counsel of God as opposed to evasion.
              Thats evasion !

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Servant of the Lord View Post

                Where is the Son?
                The light of the world? Somewhere around 93 million miles away.
                I want to hear it from your lips;
                What's it worth shining for?

                Rishloo - Scissorlips

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

                  You are wasting time. No man has the ability to come to Christ Jn 6:44
                  You are misunderstanding John 6:44 and the use of the words "no one can" That is because you are ignoring the word "unless"
                  No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

                  What the verse means, when stated in the positive is: A person CAN come ONCE the Father...draws him.
                  drawing does not mean dragging. The person must come himself, once he has been drawn.

                  Those who interpret this verse to mean God drags us to Himself, are ignoring the word "come" Drawing is God's part; coming is ours.

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                  • #84
                    seth

                    You are misunderstanding John 6:44 and the use of the words "no one can" That is because you are ignoring the word "unless"
                    No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
                    No Im not misunderstanding it. I understand the word unless the Father draws him, which drawing is a reference to the power and grace of God working in them, not the natural ability of man. So, once again can a man naturally by his own freewill ability come to Christ on his own based on Jn 6:44 ? Yes or No

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                      seth



                      No Im not misunderstanding it. I understand the word unless the Father draws him, which drawing is a reference to the power and grace of God working in them, not the natural ability of man. So, once again can a man naturally by his own freewill ability come to Christ on his own based on Jn 6:44 ? Yes or No
                      Yes, a man can naturally come by his own free will ONCE God has drawn him.
                      DRAWN does not mean regenerated. It is a poor Bible study method to turn the word "drawn" into enablement of regneration. It just means what it means. God drew, then we came.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by SethProton View Post

                        Yes, a man can naturally come by his own free will ONCE God has drawn him.
                        DRAWN does not mean regenerated. It is a poor Bible study method to turn the word "drawn" into enablement of regneration. It just means what it means. God drew, then we came.
                        Maybe you dont understand. Apart from the drawing power of God, Does a person have the ability to come to Christ by their own freewill ? Yes or No. Read Jn 6:44

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                        • #87
                          seth

                          DRAWN does not mean regenerated.
                          False it does:

                          Its describing the Power and Grace of the Spirit working in a person to will and to do of Gods good pleasure. The word draw has to do with an inward propelling. Its the greek word helkō:
                          1. to draw, drag off
                          2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
                          That person when being drawn is inwardly being led by the Spirit Rom 8:14

                          For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

                          The Spirit is leading that person to Christ

                          I believe the word being drawn is also mean here as it relates to Christs Sheep, just uses a different word but with the same implications Jn 10:3

                          3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

                          Leadeth here means :

                          lead out (6x), bring out (5x), bring forth (1x), fetch out (1x).

                          to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

                          This is elementary to me seth, Ive been teaching this for many years, but of course its always been resisted and denied !

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                          • #88
                            seth

                            DRAWN does not mean regenerated.
                            False it does. Its the Spirits inner work leading a Sheep to Christ

                            Rom 8:14

                            For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

                            Drawing is simply a inward working of the Spirit

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                            • #89
                              seth


                              What the verse means, when stated in the positive is: A person CAN come ONCE the Father...draws him.
                              False again, the word except ean mē no, not lest

                              The thought here is man doesnt have the ability,


                              may; a primary particle of qualified negation (whereas G3756 expresses an absolute denial); (adverb) not, (conjunction) lest; also (as an interrogative implying a negative answer

                              So again, the question to be asked in light of Jn 6:44 is can a man come to Christ on his own freewill ability ? The answer is what seth ? Simple Yes or No.

                              Yes once a man has been born again and given a new heart and spirit that he is made willing to come to Christ Ps 110:3

                              Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

                              But that willingness isnt credited to mans own freewill, but to Christs Power by and through His Spirit. And its limited to " Thy People" the Sheep or the Elect thats who will be drawn to Christ !

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Jesus says==
                                John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ""all"" men unto me.

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