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God hated Esau !

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  • God hated Esau !

    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.

  • #2
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God
    You mean the same kind of hatred and rejection a man must have for his father and mother?

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    Sure it does; study the context:
    Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
    Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
    1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
      Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
      I have been claiming without opposition I must add, that UNconditional election MEANS that innocents are condemned to hell for no reason, ie no condition that causes GOD to pass them over!

      And here we have it written in black and white ! the Calvinist blasphemy in full colour! Enjoy it folks, it is like a comet that seldom comes by but when it does it is a dooooozy!!!
      I champion GOD’s holiness:
      - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
      - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

      I champion Our Free will:
      - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
        You mean the same kind of hatred and rejection a man must have for his father and mother?


        Sure it does; study the context:
        Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
        Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
        Do you want to discuss op ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

          I have been claiming without opposition I must add, that UNconditional election MEANS that innocents are condemned to hell for no reason, ie no condition that causes GOD to pass them over!

          And here we have it written in black and white ! the Calvinist blasphemy in full colour! Enjoy it folks, it is like a comet that seldom comes by but when it does it is a dooooozy!!!
          Innocents? God unconditionally condemns sinners to hell.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by beloved57 View Post

            Innocents? God unconditionally condemns sinners to hell.
            Yes, and no one is excluded but hell is not a place out there but in the sinner!

            There is only one way out of hell and that is through Jesus atonement and no one is excluded.

            There is a reason for Hades and Thanatos being tossed into the lake of fire.

            Got it?

            God bless you,

            SeventhDay

            Comment


            • #7
              sd

              Yes, and no one is excluded but hell is not a place out there but in the sinner!
              human conjecture

              There is only one way out of hell and that is through Jesus atonement and no one is excluded.
              human conjecture

              Now do you want to discuss the OP or promote universalism in my thread ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                sd



                human conjecture



                human conjecture

                Now do you want to discuss the OP or promote universalism in my thread ?
                We are discussing truth which is on topic.

                Who does Esau and Jacob represent regarding humanity?

                Who came out of the womb first Jacob or Esau?

                Why is it the first will be last and the last will be first?

                If you understand what election means then you will be able to understand these questions.

                God bless you,

                SeventhDay
                Last edited by SeventhDay; 06-15-19, 07:34 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                  Innocents? God unconditionally condemns sinners to hell.
                  NO condition for their being passed over for election means NO CONDITION, no sin, no reason. You have changed my statement about their (lack of) election and its meaning to be about their salvation and its meaning....

                  Election and Salvation are not the same thing and I know you know that...this is a practiced deke.

                  Of course they were condemned for sin but they were passed over for election, passed over for salvation FOR NO REASON at all, long before they sinned!!! Unconditionally passed over for election to salvation MEANS there was no evil found in them to cause them to be passed over and a person with no evil found in them is INNOCENT!

                  NOT being elected to salvation = being chosen to be condmened. You prove the irrationality of your Calvinist pov every time you pretend that statements about election are really about salvation.
                  I champion GOD’s holiness:
                  - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                  - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                  I champion Our Free will:
                  - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ttruscott View Post
                    NO condition for their being passed over for election means NO CONDITION, no sin, no reason. You have changed my statement about their (lack of) election and its meaning to be about their salvation and its meaning....

                    Election and Salvation are not the same thing and I know you know that...this is a practiced deke.

                    Of course they were condemned for sin but they were passed over for election, passed over for salvation FOR NO REASON at all, long before they sinned!!! Unconditionally passed over for election to salvation MEANS there was no evil found in them to cause them to be passed over and a person with no evil found in them is INNOCENT!

                    NOT being elected to salvation = being chosen to be condmened. You prove the irrationality of your Calvinist pov every time you pretend that statements about election are really about salvation.
                    Like i said God unconditionally elected some to damnation for their sins. They were made vessels of wrath. So their damnation is Just!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                      Rom 9:13

                      13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

                      And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

                      Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

                      I know this because Paul had wrote:

                      (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

                      So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

                      Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
                      First you are reading from a translation about “children” not yet born. And assuming who that means.

                      All the causal reasoning is flawed.

                      Scripture does say why He hates esau.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by e v e View Post

                        First you are reading from a translation about “children” not yet born. And assuming who that means.

                        All the causal reasoning is flawed.

                        Scripture does say why He hates esau.
                        No it doesn't state that. No more than it states why God Loved Jacob. Jacob and Esau were equally sinners by nature.

                        It's not based upon any foreseen good or evil i just showed that scripture.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                          No it doesn't state that. No more than it states why God Loved Jacob. Jacob and Esau were equally sinners by nature.It's not based upon any foreseen good or evil i just showed that scripture.
                          Your willingness to ascribe lunacy to GOD in that you claim HE loves and hates and saves and damns for no reason is ludicrous.
                          I champion GOD’s holiness:
                          - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                          - Evil is creature-created by their free will.

                          I champion Our Free will:
                          - All were created with a free will able to chose for HIM or against HIM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                            Your willingness to ascribe lunacy to GOD in that you claim HE loves and hates and saves and damns for no reason is ludicrous.
                            false accusation

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ttruscott View Post

                              Your willingness to ascribe lunacy to GOD in that you claim HE loves and hates and saves and damns for no reason is ludicrous.
                              Please quote where you think the poster claimed that God "saves and damns for no reason".
                              I have NEVER seen anyone make this claim.
                              "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                              but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                              -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                              Comment

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