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Is All Mankind Under The New Covenant?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by B Student View Post

    The carnal “mind” doesn’t find God because it can’t be subject to His laws. The carnal “mind” must be put to death since it is contrary to God’s spirit. i.e. the carnal mindset naturally possessed by mankind must be put to death.
    Did you read 2Cor3:7-11 again??? Paul wrote the it WAS the 10 commandments that WAS the schoolmaster to bring Jews to Christ. Gal 3 Paul writes in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments are done away and replaced with the Holy Spirit. So if it is not the Holy Spirit that convicts man of being lost then what is it?

    [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

    Of several possibilities you chose “end” as the meaning of ‘fulfill’. However I don’t think that meaning fits the passage. Here is an excerpt from Thayer’s lexicon for the word ‘pleroo’:

    “γ. to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)…. to cause to be everywhere known, acknowledged, embraced (A. V. I have fully preached),
    c. to carry into effect, bring to realization, realize;
    α. of matters of duty, to perform, execute
    β. of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
    γ. universally and absolutely, to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Matthew 5:17; cf. Weiss, Das Matthäusevang.”

    So no: he didn’t leave anything undone, but I believe your assumption is wrong regarding what he came to do. His job was not to destroy or “end” the Law as you are suggesting. He came to carry out and obey the Law and the prophets.
    He didn't end the law until all else He came to do was fulfilled. That happened at the Cross when He uttered "it is finished". Brought to an end fortifies Paul's words in Gal 3:19 and Eph 2:15 perfectly.


    Neither Christ nor Paul ever state the Mosaic Law was annulled or universally ended, and his writings confirm this. He wrote the Law ends (i.e. its jurisdiction) for the believer in Christ, not for everyone:
    Never is that suggested.

    Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    Christ is the end of the Law. He fulfilled it. Righteousness never came by keeping the Law. It was the end of the Law for those unbelievers too.

    Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    So if Christ is the “end” of the Law to everyone under it who believes, what does that imply to those who don’t believe, and are not lead by the spirit?

    You believe that there can be only one covenant mankind can be under, but there is no logical reason that different people can’t be under different covenants; I think we agree that it is the Bible which must guide our understanding of the issue.
    To everyone He says: Revelation 3:20
    Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Jesus said He was going away,but would send the Comforter. It is the Comforter that is standing right at the hearts of mankind waiting and may I suggest helping mankind to make the decision to accept Jesus. There is no other way friend.

    I think the Bible teaches that if people want life everlasting then they should choose to enter into the New Covenant (which by definition takes them out from under the Old). If people want to seek righteousness by works and receive the temporal blessings and curses of the Law, they can seek to follow the Old Law (which will conclude them under sin).
    And I am SURE that all mankind is under the new covenant because the old covenant is done away.

    Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
    The problem using that quote is that not all mankind was under the old covenant. That quote assounts for all.

    Alternatively, they can reject any of God’s covenants and have no covenant relationship with God.
    There is only one to reject.

    You noted that Christ said “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” Is Christ’s rest for those who do not choose to “come”? Or for those who choose to “come”?
    Sure it is. It is open for all and is a loving invitation. If they choose not to open their hearts to the knocking of the Spirit they are choosing not to live eternally in Christ's rest. Quit simple isn't it.



    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ontheBeam View Post
      Did you read 2Cor3:7-11 again??? Paul wrote the it WAS the 10 commandments that WAS the schoolmaster to bring Jews to Christ. Gal 3 Paul writes in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments are done away and replaced with the Holy Spirit. So if it is not the Holy Spirit that convicts man of being lost then what is it?

      2COr 3:7-11 Does not say the Law was done away with for the unbeliever. The epistle Paul refers to in verse 2 is the ecclesia at Corinth, not the whole world. You will notice that Paul is NOT addressing people under the Law with these comments; please read verses 14-16 which clearly state he is not addressing those under the Law who still have the veil over their hearts.

      Context is very important.

      Everyone in the ecclesia was outside the jurisdiction of Mosaic Law. All of the statements you are trying to use to prove the Law was universally annulled are verses which specifically address the believing community of faith in Christ. Galatians chapter 3 is no different; it speaks to those WHO BELIEVE (e.g. refer to verse 2). Paul wrote:

      Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

      Do you think Paul was addressing Jews who had zero faith in Christ when he said: “now that faith has come we are no longer under the Law”? If so, it goes against the entire context of the chapter.

      He didn't end the law until all else He came to do was fulfilled. That happened at the Cross when He uttered "it is finished". Brought to an end fortifies Paul's words in Gal 3:19 and Eph 2:15 perfectly.

      He ended the work he came to do. He did not come to destroy and abolish the Law, as he clearly stated in Matthew 5. He came to lead the faithful into a New Covenant applicable exclusively to those who believe in Christ and have died to the flesh and put Christ on.

      Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.


      Never is that suggested.

      Sure it is:

      Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

      You seem keen to cut “faith” out of the equation.

      Christ is the end of the Law. He fulfilled it. Righteousness never came by keeping the Law. It was the end of the Law for those unbelievers too.
      Problem: you are taking away from Paul’s words. He wrote: Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.

      What you are implying is that Paul didn’t need to write that last clause because there are no qualifications for an end to the jurisdiction of the Law. Paul contradicts that theory by adding a condition.


      To everyone He says: Revelation 3:20
      Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Jesus said He was going away,but would send the Comforter. It is the Comforter that is standing right at the hearts of mankind waiting and may I suggest helping mankind to make the decision to accept Jesus. There is no other way friend.
      While I agree that there is no other way to eternal life, Rev 3:20 clearly tells us that people need to “knock”, “hear his voice” and “open the door”.


      And I am SURE that all mankind is under the new covenant because the old covenant is done away.
      I guess Paul didn’t get that memo:

      1Cor 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;


      The problem using that quote is that not all mankind was under the old covenant. That quote accounts for all.
      There’s no problem, the verse simply means that nobody in the world can meet God’s standard of righteousness by means of the Law. Excluding Jesus, there is no justification by works, thus the need to believe and bring oneself under a covenant of Grace.

      Why deny this scripture? It states that there were people still under the Law.

      There is only one to reject.

      Paul didn’t get that memo.

      Gal 4: 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.

      Sure it is. It is open for all and is a loving invitation. If they choose not to open their hearts to the knocking of the Spirit they are choosing not to live eternally in Christ's rest. Quit simple isn't it.

      Question for you:
      If everyone were under the New Covenant, then everyone would be forgiven their sins. Do you agree or disagree?

      Comment


      • #33
        No one has ever been saved by the law. The law is a teacher to point us away from sin, and to Jesus, our Creator and our Savior. We are saved by grace, and when that grace enters into us and we agree with Jesus, then we enter into the everlasting covenant that God prepared for us before He even created the worlds. All mankind has access to this covenant, sometimes called the new covenant, but not all mankind will choose to accept the conditions of the covenant and will not allow Jesus to heal their hearts by giving them a new heart. But the covenant is always available for Jesus took all of the sins of the world to Calvary and prepared the way for every sinner on this planet to be saved if they will choose to accept this holy gift.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Greg Goodchild View Post
          No one has ever been saved by the law. The law is a teacher to point us away from sin, and to Jesus, our Creator and our Savior. We are saved by grace, and when that grace enters into us and we agree with Jesus, then we enter into the everlasting covenant that God prepared for us before He even created the worlds. All mankind has access to this covenant, sometimes called the new covenant, but not all mankind will choose to accept the conditions of the covenant and will not allow Jesus to heal their hearts by giving them a new heart. But the covenant is always available for Jesus took all of the sins of the world to Calvary and prepared the way for every sinner on this planet to be saved if they will choose to accept this holy gift.
          Amen Greg.
          Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

          Comment


          • #35
            On the Beam replied:
            Amen Greg.

            Thank you On the Beam.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ontheBeam View Post
              Is All Mankind Under The New Covenant?
              Absolutely, since the OLD Covenant has been Superceded the Covenant in Jesus' blood, there only is ONE COVENANT in effect.

              And, of course, God's LAW is still completely in effect to condemn those who refuse Jesus as Savior.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                Absolutely, since the OLD Covenant has been Superceded the Covenant in Jesus' blood, there only is ONE COVENANT in effect.

                And, of course, God's LAW is still completely in effect to condemn those who refuse Jesus as Savior.
                Another oxymoron.


                .


                The 2 end-time prophets will preach a return to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets to those, who are intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding tares to the word of God
                Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                  Another oxymoron.
                  Apparently your "Angel of Light" has no idea of the relationship between the NEW COVENANT, and the eternal LAW.

                  You should really ask him to Read the Bible, and "get on board" with it, before you let him/her/it advise you, 'ol buddy..

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    Absolutely, since the OLD Covenant has been Superceded the Covenant in Jesus' blood, there only is ONE COVENANT in effect.

                    And, of course, God's LAW is still completely in effect to condemn those who refuse Jesus as Savior.

                    Another oxymoron.

                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    Apparently your "Angel of Light" has no idea of the relationship between the NEW COVENANT, and the eternal LAW.

                    You should really ask him to Read the Bible, and "get on board" with it, before you let him/her/it advise you, 'ol buddy..
                    That abuse doesn't deal with the claims you made and were refuted.


                    .
                    The 2 end-time prophets will preach a return to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets to those, who are intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding tares to the word of God
                    Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                      That abuse doesn't deal with the claims you made and were refuted.
                      Except that you never "Refuted" anything.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        Except that you never "Refuted" anything.
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        Does ANYBODY REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW IT ALL WORKS??

                        No.

                        SImple as that.
                        An inconsistent and therefore self-refuting witness.



                        .
                        The 2 end-time prophets will preach a return to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets to those, who are intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding tares to the word of God
                        Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by B Student View Post


                          2COr 3:7-11 Does not say the Law was done away with for the unbeliever. The epistle Paul refers to in verse 2 is the ecclesia at Corinth, not the whole world. You will notice that Paul is NOT addressing people under the Law with these comments; please read verses 14-16 which clearly state he is not addressing those under the Law who still have the veil over their hearts.

                          Context is very important.

                          Everyone in the ecclesia was outside the jurisdiction of Mosaic Law. All of the statements you are trying to use to prove the Law was universally annulled are verses which specifically address the believing community of faith in Christ. Galatians chapter 3 is no different; it speaks to those WHO BELIEVE (e.g. refer to verse 2). Paul wrote:

                          Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

                          Do you think Paul was addressing Jews who had zero faith in Christ when he said: “now that faith has come we are no longer under the Law”? If so, it goes against the entire context of the chapter.
                          B are you reading my posts and digesting them? I am beginning to believe you haven't because I indicated in Gal 3 that Paul went from addressing the gentile Galatians specifically to writing about Jews. Why he did this I suppose it was to tell the Galatians that the Jews that were trying to judaize the Galatians were no longer under Torah law themselves. Gentiles were never under the law. It was after verse 9 that he started writing about Jews. In verse 19 he writes that when Jesus came that Jews were no longer under the law. After Jesus came the law was only a tutor to lead Jews to Christ, but now since Jews have faith they are no longer under the tutor


                          He ended the work he came to do. He did not come to destroy and abolish the Law, as he clearly stated in Matthew 5. He came to lead the faithful into a New Covenant applicable exclusively to those who believe in Christ and have died to the flesh and put Christ on.
                          Why would Jesus come to abolish the law? Israel broke the covenant so there was actually no law to abolish. Jews did a great job destroying the Law. If what you say is correct then since Jesus put in his words not on jot or one tittle has passed from the law, sacrifice should be made along with all the rest of the rituals Israel was under.

                          Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.





                          Sure it is:
                          What is it?

                          Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

                          You seem keen to cut “faith” out of the equation.
                          Not in the least. Jesus is the one and only one that we can put our faith in that will give us eternal life. When Jesus came Jews were no longer under the law.

                          Problem: you are taking away from Paul’s words. He wrote: Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.
                          No problem, Jesus new covenant is available to all. Jn 5:24 24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

                          The law of sin and death was given to Adam and has effected every once living soul. All mankind is subject to it. The Sinai covenant had no power over over God's law to all mankind. Since the new covenant was ratified with Jesus blood it does have the power to save. The Sinai covenant didn't have the power to send Israelites to Hell, it was the law of sin and death given to Adam. There is the simple answer as to why Jews, after the new covenant was ratified, are under it. It gives them the choice of salvation or death under the law of sin and death.

                          What you are implying is that Paul didn’t need to write that last clause because there are no qualifications for an end to the jurisdiction of the Law. Paul contradicts that theory by adding a condition.
                          Again, it is the law that if one sins they cannot escape eternal death. The Sinai covenant with its 613 rules did not have the stipulation or rule that if you are keeping all the laws that pertain to everyone you will have eternal life. It didn't have a law that would end life. Yes, there are instances where God either struck some dead or told His people to put them to death, but if the ones put to death had the same faith that Abraham had they too will have eternal life.



                          While I agree that there is no other way to eternal life, Rev 3:20 clearly tells us that people need to “knock”, “hear his voice” and “open the door”.
                          Hold the phone, God is doing the knocking not the other way around. He does it through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is knocking on every door for all mankind to accept the new covenant's eternal life or die under under the penalty that Adam was given and consequently we all are subject to to the first death.

                          Question for you:
                          If everyone were under the New Covenant, then everyone would be forgiven their sins. Do you agree or disagree?
                          No, I do not agree that everyone would be forgiven. Being under it does not in any way secure forgiveness. Believing in the One who gave all mankind the new covenant is forgiven. God's law to Adam about sin still is here to end this life. Jesus law about believing in Him gives us life again if we believe and love others as He loves us. Pretty simple isn't it. Read 1Jn3:19-24 again. "We know we belong to the truth........"

                          Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ontheBeam View Post
                            B are you reading my posts and digesting them? I am beginning to believe you haven't because I indicated in Gal 3 that Paul went from addressing the gentile Galatians specifically to writing about Jews. Why he did this I suppose it was to tell the Galatians that the Jews that were trying to judaize the Galatians were no longer under Torah law themselves. Gentiles were never under the law. It was after verse 9 that he started writing about Jews. In verse 19 he writes that when Jesus came that Jews were no longer under the law. After Jesus came the law was only a tutor to lead Jews to Christ, but now since Jews have faith they are no longer under the tutor

                            I disagree with you on verse 19. It does not say unbelieving Jews were not under the Law. It says the intended purpose of the Law had been served. We have already discussed this in detail.

                            The “you” “us” and “we” in Galatians are the believing Jews. If we ignore that then we arrive at wrong conclusions. Context is important. That includes those pronouns in verses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 13, 14, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and 29.

                            So when Paul says “now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” he is talking about the Jewish believers in the ecclesia. He is not talking about all Jews including unbelievers as you are suggesting.


                            Why would Jesus come to abolish the law? Israel broke the covenant so there was actually no law to abolish. Jews did a great job destroying the Law. If what you say is correct then since Jesus put in his words not on jot or one tittle has passed from the law, sacrifice should be made along with all the rest of the rituals Israel was under.
                            Been over that…. I think that is a wrong assumption. Israel did not annul the law simply because rules were broken.

                            Just like the Law of nations isn’t annulled when people break the law and go to jail. I've provided verses to back that up.

                            Not in the least. Jesus is the one and only one that we can put our faith in that will give us eternal life. When Jesus came Jews were no longer under the law.
                            You are cutting faith out of the verse. It reads: Now that FAITH has come we (the Jewish believers in the ecclesia) are no longer under a guardian.

                            The “we” does not refer to every Jew on the planet, That would be out of the context.


                            No problem, Jesus new covenant is available to all. Jn 5:24 24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

                            The law of sin and death was given to Adam and has effected every once living soul. All mankind is subject to it. The Sinai covenant had no power over over God's law to all mankind. Since the new covenant was ratified with Jesus blood it does have the power to save. The Sinai covenant didn't have the power to send Israelites to Hell, it was the law of sin and death given to Adam. There is the simple answer as to why Jews, after the new covenant was ratified, are under it. It gives them the choice of salvation or death under the law of sin and death.

                            I don’t think that is relevant; I agree the Law holds power over a man (along with blessings and curses) only as long as he lives.
                            I never suggested the Laws curses and blessings referred to eternal life. They refer to this life, and the Jews under it had a moral obligation to obey the Law they were under.

                            Again, it is the law that if one sins they cannot escape eternal death. The Sinai covenant with its 613 rules did not have the stipulation or rule that if you are keeping all the laws that pertain to everyone you will have eternal life. It didn't have a law that would end life. Yes, there are instances where God either struck some dead or told His people to put them to death, but if the ones put to death had the same faith that Abraham had they too will have eternal life.
                            I disagree. The blessings and curses were for this life only. Everyone under the Law was doomed to die regardless.

                            The power of the law ends at fleshly death period.

                            People will be judged on the life of faith they lead and how they handled the responsibilities and “talents” given them. Those under the Law had a responsibility to obey it.

                            Hold the phone, God is doing the knocking not the other way around. He does it through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is knocking on every door for all mankind to accept the new covenant's eternal life or die under under the penalty that Adam was given and consequently we all are subject to to the first death.
                            I misread the ‘knock’ part of that verse, but one still needs to hear is voice and open the door. My point is the same.

                            No, I do not agree that everyone would be forgiven. Being under it does not in any way secure forgiveness. Believing in the One who gave all mankind the new covenant is forgiven. God's law to Adam about sin still is here to end this life. Jesus law about believing in Him gives us life again if we believe and love others as He loves us. Pretty simple isn't it. Read 1Jn3:19-24 again. "We know we belong to the truth........"

                            OK, so forgiveness of sins is part of the New Covenant, but according to you not everyone under the New Covenant receives that forgiveness.

                            Notice that all the clauses in Heb 8:10-12 are provided for by God, including forgiveness of sins. Man is providing none of the clauses.

                            So why then would somebody under the power of the New Covenant not receive forgiveness?

                            Where do you read that someone specifically under the New Covenant will not receive forgiveness?


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by B Student View Post

                              I disagree with you on verse 19. It does not say unbelieving Jews were not under the Law. It says the intended purpose of the Law had been served. We have already discussed this in detail.
                              They are under the law alright, the one given to Adam, the one that caused the first death, the same one we are under. Observing the the Sinai covenant couldn't keep the Israelites from the first death. It was not meant for that purpose. It had no power to save Israelites from the second death either. It could point out some sins and it was the governing Laws of the land, but it was clearly limited in what it could do as far as their eternal life. After the Sinai covenant ceased or ended Israelites are under the new covenant promised to them by Jeremiah. Why is that so hard to understand. If they do not turn from the knocking of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to guide them to Jesus they too will avoid the second death. As was Abraham all mankind is and was saved by faith.

                              The purpose of the Sinai covenant ceased at its termination. Its purpose was to make Canaan a great nation and a Holy nation. Had the Israelites not broken the covenant they would still all be in God's favor in the Land of Milk and Honey. God knew before the foundation of the Earth that Adam would fail and His special people would fail with the special covenant. A Savior was the only way for man to escape the second death.

                              The “you” “us” and “we” in Galatians are the believing Jews. If we ignore that then we arrive at wrong conclusions. Context is important. That includes those pronouns in verses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 13, 14, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and 29.
                              That is not in the least way correct. The "believing" Jews really were not believing. Why do you think Paul started his writing of Gal 3 with Your foolish Galatians. The Jews had put them under the Law that Jesus came to remove. The Jews teachings removed the Galatians faith in Jesus. They undid all the work Paul had started.

                              So when Paul says “now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” he is talking about the Jewish believers in the ecclesia. He is not talking about all Jews including unbelievers as you are suggesting.
                              I suggest that you restudy Gal 3 and what I wrote above.



                              Been over that…. I think that is a wrong assumption. Israel did not annul the law simply because rules were broken.
                              It was a covenant they broke. If I have a covenant with another party and I disobey that covenant the covenant becomes void unless the other party agrees to forgive my breaking it. It is the other parties choice. In the case of the Israelites and God, God gave Jeremiah the heads up. The prophecy explained that a new covenant would replace the old broken one.

                              Just like the Law of nations isn’t annulled when people break the law and go to jail. I've provided verses to back that up.
                              Strawman argument B. The laws of our land are not a covenant relationship like the "IF" covenant between Israel and God.



                              You are cutting faith out of the verse. It reads: Now that FAITH has come we (the Jewish believers in the ecclesia) are no longer under a guardian.

                              The “we” does not refer to every Jew on the planet, That would be out of the context.
                              All you can do or have done is to assume. I have not assumed anything. My responses are backed up with undeniable scripture that you intern assume is is saying something it isn't.

                              [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

                              I don’t think that is relevant; I agree the Law holds power over a man (along with blessings and curses) only as long as he lives.
                              I never suggested the Laws curses and blessings referred to eternal life. They refer to this life, and the Jews under it had a moral obligation to obey the Law they were under.

                              OK, so forgiveness of sins is part of the New Covenant, but according to you not everyone under the New Covenant receives that forgiveness.
                              Absolutely, we have our part to do.

                              Notice that all the clauses in Heb 8:10-12 are provided for by God, including forgiveness of sins. Man is providing none of the clauses.

                              So why then would somebody under the power of the New Covenant not receive forgiveness?

                              Where do you read that someone specifically under the New Covenant will not receive forgiveness?
                              I stand at the door and knock.......Jesus is not forcing anyone to accept the covenant of Grace and Love. We are free to choose life everlasting or the consequences of not having our sins forgiven. Abraham had that choice, he chose life.

                              If your analysis of the new covenant would be correct then man would not have to stand before God in the judgment Would he?



                              Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

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                              • #45
                                This is going nowhere and I think we are both wasting our time with one another on this subject.
                                I'm doing both of us a favour and ending the discussion.

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