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Canticles (Solomon's Song)

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  • Od:hgd
    started a topic Canticles (Solomon's Song)

    Canticles (Solomon's Song)

    .
    Just in case someone looking in has neither read nor heard anything from Song until just now; I should probably warn them that portions of it may not be suitable for children.

    Some of its language is a little disturbing even for grown-ups, especially in mixed company. One thing's for sure: if we're not careful with this topic, we might give the impression that Christians are depraved.

    I suppose there are any number of ways to spiritualize Song, and they're probably all very useful. Nothing especially wrong with allegories either; I mean, the apostle Paul allegorized an event from the Old Testament to illustrate his point in Gal 4:21-31, so I think it's probably okay to utilize his method when we ourselves want to draw attention to something important.

    But as for me, I'd much rather take this little book in the Old Testament prima facie, viz: as a romantic fantasy rather than some sort of mystical writing. In point of fact, it's possible that Song is a compilation of several unrelated ditties rather than one continuous story.

    Now; according to 2Tim 3:15-17; all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    So then, how does Song fulfill that statement? Well; I think it's pretty obvious that Song is going to teach us the effect that true heart-felt romantic love has on people in relationships between normal men and normal women which, I can tell you from personal experience, is very beneficial for new Christians who grew up in dysfunctional homes and/or coming out of a religion that made them feel guilty about their thoughts and feelings for the opposite sex.

    Song 1:1 . . Solomon's song of songs.

    Solomon penned quite a few songs; something like 1,005 (1Kings 4:32). Whether he wrote the music too or just the lyrics; I don't know; maybe. He was a very intelligent guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was a musician; nor even that he could carry a tune; but then he didn't have too. Solomon had a number of professional singers on the payroll. (Ecc 2:8).

    "song of songs" suggests a colloquialism like Sadaam Hussein's "mother of all wars". In other words: this particular song may have represented Solomon's best work to date.


    NOTE: Personally I think Bad Romance is Lady Gaga's best work to date, but keep that under your hat.
    _

  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Song 2:9b . . Look! There he stands behind our wall, gazing through the windows, peering through the lattice.

    (chuckle) That makes Shiloh appear to be sort of a peeping Tom but really his behavior is no different than a boy tossing little pebbles at a girl's window to get her attention.

    Song 2:10 . . My lover spoke and said to me; "Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, and come with me."

    You know, there's nothing like early morning in the countryside during fair weather. The air, the sights, the sounds, and the smells are all very invigorating; and even better when done with someone special.

    Song 2:11-13 . . See! The winter is past; the rains are over and gone. Flowers appear on the earth; the season of singing has come, the cooing of doves is heard in our land. The fig tree forms its early fruit; the blossoming vines spread their fragrance. Arise, come, my darling; my beautiful one, come with me.

    I sometimes wonder if maybe city planners don't have lovers in mind when they design city parks where people can at least feel in nature; though only a microcosm of the real thing.

    There's a moon out tonight,
    Let's go strollin'.
    There's a girl in my heart,
    Whose heart I've stolen

    There's a moon out tonight,
    Let's go strollin' through the park.

    There's a glow in my heart,
    I never felt before.
    There's a girl at my side,
    That I adore

    (The Capris, 1958)
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Song 2:8-9a . . Listen! My lover! Look! Here he comes, leaping across the mountains, bounding over the hills. My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag.

    Many years ago I was driving to a date with my best girl when I got a hankering to take a roundabout route through a valley that I had heard much about but never seen for myself.

    It was a nice drive but had a very serious downside. My girl was expecting me and when I showed up late and told her where I'd been she said: "So you were in no hurry to get here?" Ouch!

    Well; Shulah's dream guy could scarcely run fast enough to be with her. He was all go with throttle up like a Space Shuttle launch: the pedal to the metal. If Shiloh had an afterburner, he would've lit that off too and made a bee line straight for Shulah's door; no side trips.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Song 2:7 . .

    I left the scripture for that passage blank because there is so much disagreement as how to translate the Hebrew into English. But myself, I prefer Rashi's version; which reads like this:

    "I bind you under oath-- by the gazelles and the does --that you do not cause hatred nor disturb this love while it still pleases."

    Some translations address that oath to the daughters of Jerusalem.

    Song 2:7 seems to me a concern that rivals might make of themselves the proverbial fly in the ointment by trying to draw Shiloh's attention away from Shulah and thus spoil the happiness she's enjoying with the love of her life.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • Truth7t7
    replied
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post

    You didn't answer my question: "Which of the books of the Bible were actually written by God?"
    2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlFin
    replied
    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post



    A person with the mind of Christ
    wouldn't rely on a tradition which has its origins in Rome.


    Calvinists have no meaningful contact
    with the risen Lord Jesus, so they are stuck.

    The word of God is lost on them;

    (1 Cor 4:6)
    that you may learn in us not to think
    BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN

    by the foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)
    You didn't answer my question: "Which of the books of the Bible were actually written by God?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Song 2:5a . . Stay me with flagons,

    Webster's defines a flagon as a large usually metal or pottery vessel (as for wine) with handle and spout and often a lid and/or a large bulging short necked bottle, and/or the contents of a flagon

    The Hebrew word must be difficult because not every version translates 'ashiyshah (ash-ee-shaw') as a container or the contents of a container. A number of versions translate that word as a cake of raisins; which actually makes better sense than wine because the purpose is to "stay me" which means to strengthen, prop up, and/or support. Well; alcohol usually does very little to strengthen people; especially pitchers of the stuff.

    Song 2:5b . . comfort me with apples:

    The Hebrew word for "apples" in that verse is the same as Song 2:3, where it's possibly a generic term that can pertain to any number of fruit-bearing trees, e.g. oranges, quince, citron, etc; which are trees that produce fruits that not only taste good, but smell pretty good too when they're cut open.

    It appears that Shulah has been so focused upon this love interest of hers that she has neglected to eat and has now become aware that her body is weak and in need of nourishment.

    Song 2:5c . . for I am faint with love.

    That pretty much describes lovesickness, which Webster's defines as languishing with love; viz: Shulah's love for Shiloh was so passionate, and so distracting, that she had lost her appetite and wasn't eating right; thus, it was wearing her down; and no wonder. Observe this next fantasy going thru her head.

    Song 2:6 . . His left hand is under my head, and his right hand embraces me.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • SethProton
    replied
    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
    .



    The grammar of Song 1:1 implies it's one song. But some have suggested that it's pieced together with excerpts from other of Solomon's compositions.

    Another source says that Solomon's song is incomprehensible. I tend to agree.
    _
    I don't know why people have claimed it is a collection, when the evidence is that it is a single piece of writing.
    In those days, when the Jews were assembling the OT, they were capable of saying "This is a collection of Solomon's work." Instead it is presented as one work.
    As far as the comprehension of the book. some have made sense of it. I told you we wrote a musical based on it. Our musical has a recognizable plot and characters. We included the entire book in order. And it made sense to us and to our audiences.

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Originally posted by SethProton View Post
    The title suggests that it is just one song, one piece of literature. some of the ideas are repeated which indicates a continuity.

    The grammar of Song 1:1 implies it's one song. But some have suggested that it's pieced together with excerpts from other of Solomon's compositions.

    Another source says that Solomon's song is incomprehensible. I tend to agree.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • SethProton
    replied
    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
    .


    Well; you're not missing anything. I've been winging it thus far and I highly suspect that the story isn't continuous anyway but consists of a number of ditties bundled together.

    The hardest part of commenting on Solomon's song is figuring out what he says. There are so many strange metaphors and weird colloquialisms; I'm just taking my best guess at them and heaven only knows whether those guesses are out in left field.
    _
    The title suggests that it is just one song, one piece of literature. some of the ideas are repeated which indicates a continuity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Song 2:4a . . He brought me to the banqueting house,

    The Hebrew word for "banquet" is yayin (yah'-yin) which refers to a fermented beverage; one containing alcohol.

    Another of that's word's appearances is located in the book of Esther where she arranged a sort of special tea party for her potentate; only the tea in that case was wine.

    Song 2:4b . . and his banner over me is love.

    The largest use of banners is located in first ten chapter of the book of Numbers as flags hoisted aloft to indicate tribal rallying points.

    The combination is a pretty cool metaphor. The banquet and the banner indicate that Shulah held a special place in her lover's heart.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • Od:hgd
    replied
    .
    Originally posted by SethProton View Post
    I have to admit I did not read all your posts
    Well; you're not missing anything. I've been winging it thus far and I highly suspect that the story isn't continuous anyway but consists of a number of ditties bundled together.

    The hardest part of commenting on Solomon's song is figuring out what he says. There are so many strange metaphors and weird colloquialisms; I'm just taking my best guess at them and heaven only knows whether those guesses are out in left field.
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Carabbio
    replied
    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post



    Not the word of the Lord,
    but
    the song of songs, which is Solomon’s (So 1:1).

    the gospel of God which He promised before
    through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures
    (Rom 1:1-2)

    Solomon wasn't a prophet,
    nor does his drivel
    testify of Jesus (John 5:39)..
    WHOOPEE!!!! another Book we can toss under the Bus!!! The Bible's getting easier to read all the time!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • SethProton
    replied
    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
    .
    Song 2:3a . . Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men.

    The Hebrew word for "apple" is somewhat vague. It's possibly a generic term that can pertain to any number of fruit-bearing trees, e.g. oranges, quince, citron, etc which are trees that produce fruits that not only taste good, but smell pretty good too when they're cut open.

    Seeing as how Song is a fantasy rather than a fact, we could make Shulah's "apple" tree any species we want, including cherries, which produce not only tasty fruit, but also lovely blossoms too. The exact species isn't all that important. What really matters is the contrast.

    Fruit trees produce food, while woodland trees as a rule don't produce any really useful nourishment; unless you're maybe a beaver, a chipmunk, or an insect.

    Song 2:3b . . I delight to sit in his shade, and his fruit is sweet to my taste.

    The flesh of fruit is typically soft compared to nuts and seeds, which are usually hard.

    Most guys would rather be thought of as an oak's acorn than a fruit. But an oak tree-- whose lumber is certainly far more sturdy than that of most fruit trees --isn't romantic. Oaks are brutish-- like oxen --and who really wants to snuggle with bovines.
    _
    I have to admit I did not read all your posts, but the Song is a book I've studied in detail, One of the things that I found was that gender is evident in the song in ways that is absent from the English translation. You often can tell who is speaking based on gender clues within the Hebrew text. It's over my head, but I've read commentaries on the Song where that was shown.
    Whether the girl is a real person that Solomon knew, or an imaginary ideal love, the song still has the same meaning.
    There are a few different interpretations. I was involved in dramatizing the Song, as it has been suggested it was written to be performed. In the process of that we put many of the words to our own music.

    In our version we followed the line of thought that identifies three main characters: Solomon, the girl and a shepherd. In that version, Solomon has brought her to be his next wife, but she loves the shepherd back home. Allegoricaly the girl is a believer, the shepherd is Jesus and Solomon is the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlFin
    replied
    Why do you think a 21st century man has any grounds to criticize ancient romantic writings?

    Leave a comment:

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