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Good Friday?

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  • Good Friday?

    .
    Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Some years ago a skeptic asked me how to get three days and three nights between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. It was an embarrassing moment.

    Well; Passover and Easter Sunday are just around the corner. So . . .
    _


  • #2
    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
    .
    Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Some years ago a skeptic asked me how to get three days and three nights between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. It was an embarrassing moment.

    Well; Passover and Easter Sunday are just around the corner. So . . .
    _
    We spent the day at the park....well, only 8 hours but we called it a day. We then spent a night at the races...though it was only for 4 hours.

    Must day and night include the entire natural time of light and darkness?

    Jesus didn't spend the entire "day" of Friday in the tomb but rather the end of the day...which counted as a day.

    Comment


    • #3
      .
      Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
      Must day and night include the entire natural time of light and darkness?

      The preponderance of evidence indicates that Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during the third day rather after the third was over and done with.

      Matt 17:22-23 . . Jesus said unto them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.

      Mark 9:31 . . He taught his disciples, and said unto them: The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

      Luke 9:22 . .The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

      Luke 24:21-23 . .We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

      Luke 24:46 . . He said unto them: Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

      Acts 10:40 . . God raised him up the third day

      1Cor 15:4 . . he rose again the third day
      _

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
        .
        [/COLOR]
        The preponderance of evidence indicates that Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during the third day rather after the third was over and done with.

        Matt 17:22-23 . . Jesus said unto them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.

        Mark 9:31 . . He taught his disciples, and said unto them: The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

        Luke 9:22 . .The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

        Luke 24:21-23 . .We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

        Luke 24:46 . . He said unto them: Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

        Acts 10:40 . . God raised him up the third day

        1Cor 15:4 . . he rose again the third day
        _
        Pretty simple:
        Friday 1
        Sat 2
        Sun 3.....

        Whats the problem?

        Comment


        • #5
          .
          Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
          Pretty simple:
          Friday 1
          Sat 2
          Sun 3.....

          Whats the problem?
          Where's your third night as per Matt 12:40?
          _

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
            .


            Where's your third night as per Matt 12:40?
            _
            I would suggest you check this out..... How long was Jesus dead in the tomb?

            Comment


            • #7
              .
              Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
              I would suggest you check this out.....
              I insist you check the Bible because your chronology in post No.4 has a problem. It's short one night of the three that Christ predicted in Matt 12:40.
              _

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
                .


                I insist you check the Bible because your chronology in post No.4 has a problem. It's short one night of the three that Christ predicted in Matt 12:40.
                _
                I'm really not going to debate this any further....in your OP you said..." It was an embarrassing moment."...sufficient answers have been provided that show you're moment didn't have to be embarrassing. Did you visit the link I provided you?

                I'm not really quite sure what the skeptic was trying to say...or you are trying to say.

                Comment


                • #9
                  .
                  In the very beginning, God made a distinct difference between night and day on Earth; so that His day on Earth is not a 24-hour amalgam of light and dark; rather, His day on Earth is when the Sun is up, and His night on Earth is when the Sun is down.

                  Gen 1:4-5 . . God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light day, and the darkness he called night.

                  Gen 1:14 . . And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night

                  Gen 1:16 . .And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night.

                  Gen 1:17-18 . . And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness.

                  If only people kept those God-given physical characteristics in mind when working with Matt 12:40, their calculations would be greatly simplified.

                  FAQ: Why bother defining the limits of day and night?

                  A: It's necessary that we nail down the physical characteristics of night and day because so many people have allowed 24-hour Jewish civil time to muddle their understanding of Matt 12:40.

                  Here's another "muddle" that pops up now and then.

                  Gen 1:5 . . And the evening and the morning were the first day.

                  Creation's days are very controversial and a special area of study all to themselves. For example: chronologically evening and morning define overnight which suggests that God did all of His creative work in the dark.

                  I highly recommend categorizing creation's days apart from days on Earth in order to avoid confusion, especially when the preponderance of evidence testifies that day is a time of light, and night is a time of darkness; viz: day on Earth is when the sun is up, and night is when the sun is down.
                  _

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    CrowCross,
                    re: "I would suggest you check this out..... How long was Jesus dead in the tomb?"

                    The Messiah said that 3 nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". Your link tries to explain away the lack of a 3rd night which would be the case with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection by saying that any part of a day was counted as a whole day. I agree that it could be the custom of the time. But where was it ever said that no part of a day or no part of a night could be counted as a day or a night? No examples were provided.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      .
                      The final authority on matters of daytime and nighttime is the Lord himself. He was actually living in Israel during crucifixion week. When Jesus was here, days were, at the most, only 12 hours.

                      John 11:9-10 . . Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.

                      This world's light is of course the Sun as per Gen 1:14-18. So then, when Jesus was here; day was when the sun is up and night was when the sun is down; meaning of course that the three days and three nights of Matt 12:40 indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down; i.e. relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection: days began with sunrise and nights began with sundown.

                      FYI: Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when this world's light consists of less than 12 normal hours of sun, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always twelve regardless.

                      I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)
                      _

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        .
                        Unknown to a pretty good number of Bible students is that Jesus and his men ate their Passover dinner the night of his arrest. (Matt 26:17-20, Mark 14:12-17, and Luke 22:7-15)

                        The Jews ate their Passover after he was dead and buried. (John 13:1-2, John 18:28-29, John 19:13-14, and John 19:31)

                        The Jews were somehow unaware that their religious calendar was tardy the year that Christ was crucified. He, being a prophet in direct contact with God, would of course have known the precise moment that Passover that year was supposed to begin; which is no doubt at least one of the reasons why Christ ate his own Passover before the Jews ate theirs.

                        Ironically, the Jews were careful to avoid going after Jesus during Passover.

                        Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

                        Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus during the very season they wanted to avoid.

                        Also unknown to a pretty good number of Bible students is that there was an extra sabbath in crucifixion week-- the Passover sabbath. (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

                        Passover sabbath is interesting. The routine sabbath always falls on the very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats; hence it can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week; sometimes even coincident with the routine sabbath; for example 2018 and 2019, and sometimes consecutive with the routine sabbath; for example 2008.

                        It's sometimes objected that whereas Yom Kippur and the Feast of Trumpets are specifically called sabbaths; the first day of the feast of unleavened bread isn't. It's set aside for an holy convocation which just simply means a sacred assembly. But it's also added that no manner of work shall be done on that day; which is exactly what a sabbath is all about (Gen 2:2-3). In reality, the objection is just semantic nit picking.

                        Anyway; John calls that day a sabbath (John 19:31), which pretty much settles it for me. But it's a sneaky sabbath that easily escapes people's notice so they end up counting only one of the sabbaths related to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. By failing to reckon with the Passover sabbath, they end up stuck with the Good Friday model; which of course is unworkable.

                        Now, when we combine the Passover sabbath and the weekly routine sabbath and the difference of one day between Jesus' Passover and the Jews' Passover, we end up with a very complicated can of worms to sort out.

                        I sometimes suspect that most people accept the Good Friday model because it doesn't require any thinking; whereas the actual facts of the matter are a bit of a challenge to comprehend.
                        _

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          .
                          Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
                          there was an extra sabbath in crucifixion week-- the Passover sabbath. (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

                          FAQ: If that's true, then where do we place it in the chronology?

                          A: It began at sundown the afternoon of the Lord's burial.

                          FAQ: Where do we place the routine sabbath?

                          A: It followed on the heels of the Passover sabbath and is seen when the women went out to the cemetery. (Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1)

                          So the order of events is:

                          Sunday was resurrection day.
                          Saturday was the routine sabbath day.
                          Friday was the Passover sabbath day.
                          Thursday was crucifixion day.

                          FAQ: That's a total of four days. Isn't that one too many?

                          A: It's tempting to count the afternoon of Christ's burial as one of the days as per Matt 12:40 and John 2:19-22, but don't do it. Wait until the Jews' preparation for Passover comes to an end and they're ready to sit down and dine upon their lambs before starting to tally the days and nights or your chronology won't come out right. It's essential to leave crucifixion day set aside for the slaughtering of lambs; including the one on the cross.

                          NOTE: The timing of Jesus' crucifixion is remarkable. He was executed during the very day that the Jews were preparing for their Passover. Had the Jews' religious calendar not been incorrect that year, they would've put him to death some other day. (Matt 26:3-5)
                          _

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            .
                            John 20:1 . . Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

                            FAQ: Doesn't that passage, along with Matt 28:1 and Mark 16:1-2, prove that Jesus' crucified dead body was restored to life prior to sunrise?

                            A: According to Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:17-18, and John 11:9-10, "day" is when the Sun is up and "night" is when the Sun is down.

                            In other words: had Jesus risen prior to sunrise, he would've risen at night. But according to Matt 17:22-23, Mark 9:31, Luke 9:22, Luke 24:21-23, Luke 24:46, Acts 10:40, and 1Cor 15:4 he rose from the dead during day.

                            The Greek word that speaks of the women's journey is somewhat ambiguous. It can not only mean came, but also went, i.e. it can indicate travel as well as arrival and/or coming as well as going.

                            Seeing as how there are no less than seven verses that clearly, conclusively, and without ambiguity testify that Jesus' dead body revived on the third day rather than during the third night-- viz: his body revived when the Sun was up rather than when the Sun was not yet up, --then it's safe to conclude that in the women's case "went" is the appropriate translation of the Greek word erchomai, i.e. the women left their homes during morning twilight; and by the time they met together and journeyed to the cemetery, the Sun was fully up.

                            (I cannot imagine any woman of good sense walking around a graveyard in the dark; especially when back in that day nobody as yet had access to electric lighting of any kind, not even a flashlight.)

                            NOTE: The original languages of the Bible contain numerous ambiguous words that translators are not always sure how best to interpret; so sometimes the onus is upon the reader. Caveat Lector.
                            _

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              .
                              FAQ: I've heard it said that Jesus' crucified dead body was restored to life on Saturday just prior to sundown. Is that a possibility? (Saturday is the Jews' routine sabbath day.)

                              A: According to Luke 24:21-23, the third day predicted by Matt 12:40 fell upon the day that the women went out to the cemetery.

                              "We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive."

                              The day that the women went out to the cemetery is well-attested to be the day following the Jews' routine sabbath day. (Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2, Mark 16:9, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, and John 20:19)
                              _

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