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  • Forsaking Public Assembly

    Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.


    A few point have to be recognized to properly apply Heb 10:25. People haphazardly throw around this verse as if it means something today.


    1. The early church abandoned the faith given to the apostles.

    2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me
    Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
    Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    2. The author KNEW the faithfulness of those assembling in Hebrews 10:25. Which means this can NOT be applied BEYOND the immediate context of those receiving he writing/letter.

    3. The elephant in the room question....... WHICH ONE DO I CHOOSE?

    I mean seriously, There are hundreds if not thousands of choices all claiming to be the place I need to be!

    All of them can't be right. All of them are DIVIDED.

    Christ is NOT divided

    Just how does ANYONE apply Hebrews 10:25 to fractured assemblies all competing to control the same people?




  • #2
    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
    Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.


    A few point have to be recognized to properly apply Heb 10:25. People haphazardly throw around this verse as if it means something today.


    1. The early church abandoned the faith given to the apostles.

    2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me
    Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
    Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    2. The author KNEW the faithfulness of those assembling in Hebrews 10:25. Which means this can NOT be applied BEYOND the immediate context of those receiving he writing/letter.

    3. The elephant in the room question....... WHICH ONE DO I CHOOSE?

    I mean seriously, There are hundreds if not thousands of choices all claiming to be the place I need to be!

    All of them can't be right. All of them are DIVIDED.

    Christ is NOT divided

    Just how does ANYONE apply Hebrews 10:25 to fractured assemblies all competing to control the same people?
    SO we all need to come to YOUR CHURCH!!! right?? You DO go and join with the church, don't you, or is that beneath you???

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      SO we all need to come to YOUR CHURCH!!! right?? You DO go and join with the church, don't you, or is that beneath you???
      There is only One Body and I'm probably a member positioned on the rear end section near the taint. I taint anything.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
        Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. A few point have to be recognized to properly apply Heb 10:25. People haphazardly throw around this verse as if it means something today.

        1. The early church abandoned the faith given to the apostles.

        2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me
        Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
        Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

        2. The author KNEW the faithfulness of those assembling in Hebrews 10:25. Which means this can NOT be applied BEYOND the immediate context of those receiving he writing/letter.
        I respectfully suggest to you that the Bible verses just proof-texted are not to be taken literally but as a reflection of a servant of God who was suffering. One of the remarkable thruths of scripture is its inclusion of the imperfections of those chosen by God. Abraham lied and apparently did so without remorse. David was a murderer and adulterer. Peter an impulsive hypocrite. Paul frequently felt rejected and often treated the perception others were abandoning him with hyperbole. We know Paul was meek in person but bold in the his epistles and that apparently caused some conflict between he and the Corinthians leadership but that does not mean they "turned away" from him or "sought their own." In regards to the Roman province of Asia we see in revelation that the churches in that area were criticized by God but also significantly commended in part. Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea, the seven churches in Revelation are all in Asia.

        The church in Ephesus was commended its deeds, toil, perseverance in Christ's name, its intolerance of evil men, and their testing of false apostles without growing weary. Those in Smyrna are instructed not to fear what they would suffer (for Christ). Despite the problem of Nicolaitus, the Pergamum congregation is commended for holding fast to the name of Christ and not denying the faith of Christ in the face of persecution. Those in Thyatira are commended for "your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance..." This good and bad holds true of all the seven churches.

        So Paul's words should be understood as a function of hyperbole and consequence of his own personal suffering.
        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
        3. The elephant in the room question....... WHICH ONE DO I CHOOSE? I mean seriously, There are hundreds if not thousands of choices all claiming to be the place I need to be! All of them can't be right. All of them are DIVIDED.
        No, there's not that much division. Christianity is consistent in its core doctrines no matter where you go, whether Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, or non-denom. It is only in regard to peripheral concerns that we find much difference. All Christians believe 1) God exists, 2) Jesus is God's incarnate Son who is himself divine, 3) humanity is individually and collectively separated from God by sin and in need of salvation from said sin and the commensurate wrath, 4) Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected as a propitiation for our sins and it is by him and him alone that we have salvation from sin and wrath.

        It's pretty simple.

        Diversity and division are a good thing. Divisiveness is not a good thing. Important difference.
        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
        Christ is NOT divided
        That is correct and neither is the body of Christ. This is remarkably demonstrated by the fact I can go anywhere in the world and find Christians who will put me up and care for me simply and solely because I bear the blood of Christ along with them and it won't matter whether I belong to any given denomination.

        It is divisive people who are divided and dividing.

        Important difference.
        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
        Just how does ANYONE apply Hebrews 10:25 to fractured assemblies all competing to control the same people?
        By applying an exegetically correct understanding of whole scripture.




        Since humanity was created we humans have struggled not to live by the poles of legalism and hypocrisy. This problem is readily visible in the still-flawed members of Christ's body and it is quite common to hear non-believers criticize Christians because they are legalistic or because they are hypocritical. This is a red herring. The entire world is filled with legalists and hypocrites!

        Those within the body of Christ are trying imperfectly to be different.

        Those who do not assembly in the body simply trade one group of sinners for another, one group of redeemed sinners for a larger group of unredeemed sinners.

        All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

        “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Josheb View Post
          I respectfully suggest to you that the Bible verses just proof-texted are not to be taken literally but as a reflection of a servant of God who was suffering. One of the remarkable thruths of scripture is its inclusion of the imperfections of those chosen by God. Abraham lied and apparently did so without remorse. David was a murderer and adulterer. Peter an impulsive hypocrite. Paul frequently felt rejected and often treated the perception others were abandoning him with hyperbole. We know Paul was meek in person but bold in the his epistles and that apparently caused some conflict between he and the Corinthians leadership but that does not mean they "turned away" from him or "sought their own." In regards to the Roman province of Asia we see in revelation that the churches in that area were criticized by God but also significantly commended in part. Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea, the seven churches in Revelation are all in Asia.

          The church in Ephesus was commended its deeds, toil, perseverance in Christ's name, its intolerance of evil men, and their testing of false apostles without growing weary. Those in Smyrna are instructed not to fear what they would suffer (for Christ). Despite the problem of Nicolaitus, the Pergamum congregation is commended for holding fast to the name of Christ and not denying the faith of Christ in the face of persecution. Those in Thyatira are commended for "your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance..." This good and bad holds true of all the seven churches.

          So Paul's words should be understood as a function of hyperbole and consequence of his own personal suffering.
          Utter rubbish. There is a reason we have so very extant NT texts and so little surviving information from the 1 century AD to the 3rd Century AD. What Paul said is true. The early church abandoned not only the apostles, but their teachings. Which is why you see the rise of contentious arguments in the 3rd century to defended the TRUE teachings of the apostle by canonizing their words.

          No, there's not that much division. Christianity is consistent in its core doctrines no matter where you go, whether Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, or non-denom. It is only in regard to peripheral concerns that we find much difference. All Christians believe 1) God exists, 2) Jesus is God's incarnate Son who is himself divine, 3) humanity is individually and collectively separated from God by sin and in need of salvation from said sin and the commensurate wrath, 4) Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected as a propitiation for our sins and it is by him and him alone that we have salvation from sin and wrath.
          No. They all have their "flavor" of Christ.

          It is ironic to me that you so boldly defend the teaching of some and then seek to "blend" all these divisions you vehemently fight yourself. Seems double minded.

          It's pretty simple.

          Diversity and division are a good thing. Divisiveness is not a good thing. Important difference.
          There is no division or diversity in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Its not message for some and another blended message for another.

          Jesus didn't mind being divisive.

          Luk 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

          Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

          That is correct and neither is the body of Christ. This is remarkably demonstrated by the fact I can go anywhere in the world and find Christians who will put me up and care for me simply and solely because I bear the blood of Christ along with them and it won't matter whether I belong to any given denomination.
          Such a thing does not exist. The only possible way it does exist is that you refuse to preach doctrine. If you preach doctrine, then they'd run you off just like humanity did the apostles.

          It is divisive people who are divided and dividing.
          Like Paul? Or like Jesus? Or like Peter, do you forget they were rejected by their OWN? The Jews?

          Those who do not assembly in the body simply trade one group of sinners for another, one group of redeemed sinners for a larger group of unredeemed sinners.
          That is where you are wrong. I love to be among God's children. However, they don't want me among them...... All I have to do is start mentioning the division that exists around us and that all people are guilty of missing the mark... INCLUDING THEM.... and they kindly and at times... not so kindly...... Show me the door.

          But I guess I'm divisive in your book. Oh well. You've accused Paul of exaggerating his life in chains..... That pretty much says it all....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
            Utter rubbish.
            Ephesians 4:29

            So be it. I gave you scripture and that content was labeled utter rubbish. I'd like to say it was nice trading posts with you but it was not.
            Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
            I guess I'm divisive in your book.
            No, you are divisive in God's book.
            Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
            "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; ...variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, ...and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
            Galatians 5:19-21 NAS
            "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: ...enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, ...and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
            Galatians 5:19-21 ESV
            "Now the works of the flesh are evident: ...enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, ...and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
            There is a word the Bible uses for those who unjustly judge and divide the body of Christ. That word is "devil." The word literally means "accuser." It is sometimes challenging to know how to handle disagreement, dissent, division, and/or factions in the body if we do not rely on the whole word of God. In writing to the Corinthian congregations about some of the controversies with which they were wrestling he wrote,
            1 Corinthians 11:17-19
            "But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you."
            According to Paul factions serve a divine purpose. They must exist. This is the exact same Paul who also wrote in the exact same letter,
            1 Corinthians 1:10-15
            "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name."
            He exhorted them - one of the messiest congregations in his experience - not to have divisions while making it clear factions were necessary to evidence those approved by God.

            This is what is happening when you go into a body of believers, praise_yeshua. You are interacting with imperfect people, some of whom are in appropriately divided and others who divide rightly based on scripture. And you have demonstrated in very concise words you thik these measures from scripture are "Utter rubbish." So the next time a congregations leaders show you the door consider the premise it might be you with the problem, not them and they are doing exactly what they should be doing.
            Titus 3:9-11 KJV
            "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."
            Those of us in CARM and other discussion boards like debate. The best among us have an affinity for and take delight in a healthy exchange of ideas (as defined by scripture). Some simply have a contentious spirit they incorrectly imagine as righteous and just when it is in truth self-righteous and devilish.

            Be the former, not the latter. Pray that God make you be the guy He wants you to be because I can assure you He does not want you to be the guy you described. He does not want you to be the guy who mentions the division that exists around us noting all people are guilty of missing the mark including them knowing they will show you the door. There is no togetherness in pointing out division. Hebrews 10:25 says don't neglect meeting together. Ask God to show you why it is you spend so much time, energy, and work on division, often (but perhaps not always) divisively.
            Romans 16:16-18
            "Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you. Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites..."
            Luke 6:45
            "The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart."
            I would encourage you to always remember the profound truth of that verse and what Jesus is teaching in that passage, because according to that verse it is out of the abundance of the heart that words like, "Utter rubbish," are posted instead of,
            Ephesians 4:29-32
            "Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."
            Galatians 5:22-26
            "...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another."
            You (and I and all other believers) can know where you're at in any given moment simply by whether you're "challenging one another" in godly, scriptural manner. If it is not edifying then it isn't obedient.



            All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

            “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Josheb View Post
              Ephesians 4:29

              So be it. I gave you scripture and that content was labeled utter rubbish. I'd like to say it was nice trading posts with you but it was not.
              You said that Paul exaggerated his experience because he was wounded. That is what you said. That assessment of Paul's words are utter rubbish. I don't know of ANY reputable scholar that who would make such a claim.

              Do you have any commonality with any reputable source that would agree with your assessment? By all means, provide.

              No, you are divisive in God's book.
              Why do you disagree with me? You're being divisive you know.
              1 Corinthians 1:10-15
              "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name."
              He exhorted them - one of the messiest congregations in his experience - not to have divisions while making it clear factions were necessary to evidence those approved by God.

              1 Corinthians 11:17-19
              "But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you."

              [/QUOTE]

              Yep. Those factions proved that Paul was approved of God. Yet, you say that he embellished/lied about what happen to him and what would HAPPEN to the church. I mean he even prophesied that after his departure.....

              It is ridiculous that you would claim an embellished prophesy.

              Yes. Paul was approved of God and these around him rejected him....and he was left largely to himself.

              Hey they did it to Jesus too....... Did Jesus embellish what happened to Him as well?

              I mean he was wounded but it wasn't that bad. He didn't stay in the grave. It not like it permanently disabled Him.... I mean... No harm... No foul... Right?








              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                You said that Paul exaggerated his experience because he was wounded.
                Let's be clear here: hyperbole is not intedned to deceive; it is a simple literary device used simply to bring attention to something. Exaggeration, on the other hand, often entails deceit or a willful misrepresentation of fact or truth. I did not say nor imply Paul was dishonest in any way. Hyperbole is a common device found throughout the Bible.

                And I will gladly make to that case for what I posted to anyone with a sincere interest in understanding it, but I've no interest in doing so with folks who think "Utter rubbish" is a cogent or scriptural response.

                So figure out whether you want to discuss what I posted relevant to this inquiry of this op or not and then let me know because so far what I've observed is thoroughly consistent with Titus 3:9-11 and I know how to obey God's word.
                Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                Why do you disagree with me? You're being divisive you know.
                1b) I have already answered that question so b) there's no evidence you're not actually reading and considering what was posted, and

                2) I'm not being divisive....


                ...I am walking away from a dysfunctional op in obedience to God's word. You let me know when you want to discuss something I actually posted together in a collaborative manner (even if we end up disagreeing) because my point has already been made and proven whether you're aware of it or not.

                All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                  Let's be clear here: hyperbole is not intedned to deceive; it is a simple literary device used simply to bring attention to something. Exaggeration, on the other hand, often entails deceit or a willful misrepresentation of fact or truth. I did not say nor imply Paul was dishonest in any way. Hyperbole is a common device found throughout the Bible.
                  Men of God say what they mean and mean what they say. Yes. Hyperbole exists in the Scriptures. HOWEVER, not in any sense of what Paul wrote. Not even close. Hyperbole is found in statements such as....

                  Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

                  It is an exaggeration meant to catch someone's attention to focus upon what is meaningful.

                  Yet, you unjustly apply such rhetoric to common discourse used by Paul to explain the position of the church and their wholesale abandonment of the Truth and the conditions that surrounded him.

                  Act 20:19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

                  crying and weeping as he told of things that should come to pass after he left.

                  Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

                  Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
                  Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


                  ...I am walking away from a dysfunctional op in obedience to God's word. You let me know when you want to discuss something I actually posted together in a collaborative manner (even if we end up disagreeing) because my point has already been made and proven whether you're aware of it or not.
                  Sure. Claim victory. Enjoy your self imposed exile.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                    Men of God say what they mean and mean what they say. Yes. Hyperbole exists in the Scriptures.
                    You've just contradicted yourself. There's no, "However..." with posters who post self-contradictorily. Plenty of opportunity was provided to engage what I wrote without subterfuge and not a single response I received was cogent. You are simply incorrect about this, praise_yeshua, and you've refused to give it the consideration it warrants.


                    So, we're done. You take your op up with others.



                    Fundamentally, there is an observable failure in understanding the Hebrews 10 text simply because it is impossible to be "together" and divisive. Neither is there much common ground between encouragement and divisiveness. Whatever the individual differences we are to come together to worship God and encourage each other. The fact you think it's cool to bring up divisions and blame other when they show you the door is a problem to be solved. So far two posters have endeavored to highlight the problems in the op only to be resisted. That's a problem.



                    And when you're sincerely ready to discuss these matters then I will read content indicative of such authenticity and interest. Until then you have my position on the matter.
                    All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                    “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                      You've just contradicted yourself. There's no, "However..." with posters who post self-contradictorily. Plenty of opportunity was provided to engage what I wrote without subterfuge and not a single response I received was cogent. You are simply incorrect about this, praise_yeshua, and you've refused to give it the consideration it warrants.


                      So, we're done. You take your op up with others.



                      Fundamentally, there is an observable failure in understanding the Hebrews 10 text simply because it is impossible to be "together" and divisive. Neither is there much common ground between encouragement and divisiveness. Whatever the individual differences we are to come together to worship God and encourage each other. The fact you think it's cool to bring up divisions and blame other when they show you the door is a problem to be solved. So far two posters have endeavored to highlight the problems in the op only to be resisted. That's a problem.



                      And when you're sincerely ready to discuss these matters then I will read content indicative of such authenticity and interest. Until then you have my position on the matter.
                      Your implication are unfounded. I'm being sincere.

                      I haven't contradicted myself at all.

                      There is no indication whatsoever of "Hyperbole" within the context of Paul's writings. I posted nothing that identified as being from Paul and containing Hyperbole. Metaphorical speech is NOT hyperbole.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                        Your implication are unfounded. I'm being sincere. I haven't contradicted myself at all.

                        There is no indication whatsoever of "Hyperbole" within the context of Paul's writings. I posted nothing that identified as being from Paul and containing Hyperbole. Metaphorical speech is NOT hyperbole.
                        The evidence says otherwise.

                        Denial is not a cogent response.


                        I will give you credit for recognizing the "metaphorical" nature of Paul's "speech," if that is that is the intended implication. I have explained how and why the text can be seen to be rhetorically hyperbolic so when you're ready to discuss that evidence I'll be glad to continue. Until then I have done my part, found the discussion has reached a Titus 3:9-11 point, and having said my piece I'll let the posts speak for themselves. I'll know you've decided to discuss that content when I read a cogent response to what is actually stated in the Bible and my posts.

                        All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                        “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Josheb View Post
                          The evidence says otherwise.

                          Denial is not a cogent response.


                          I will give you credit for recognizing the "metaphorical" nature of Paul's "speech," if that is that is the intended implication. I have explained how and why the text can be seen to be rhetorically hyperbolic so when you're ready to discuss that evidence I'll be glad to continue. Until then I have done my part, found the discussion has reached a Titus 3:9-11 point, and having said my piece I'll let the posts speak for themselves. I'll know you've decided to discuss that content when I read a cogent response to what is actually stated in the Bible and my posts.
                          I posted what was in the Scripture and made the cogent argument that what was written can not be applied to the modern practices around us. What was being practiced at the time is NOT what being practiced today. Thus, the words written/spoken can not possibly have a practical application today.

                          I posted evidence where Paul LITERALLY predicted how the church had turned away from him. How he was left alone. LITERALLY... no one was with him.

                          How Paul literally declared words such as these....

                          Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
                          Php 2:20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
                          Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
                          Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
                          Php 2:23 Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.
                          Php 2:24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.

                          You can see hyperbole all you want. Enjoy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post
                            I posted what was in the Scripture and made the cogent argument that what was written can not be applied to the modern practices around us.
                            No, you did not.

                            Scripture was treated selectively. The argument was irrational. And the practice here in this discussion contradicted both.
                            All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                            “if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.” (2 Tim. 2:5)

                            Comment

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