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Abraham and Sarah

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  • Abraham and Sarah

    עֶרְוַ֨ת אֲחֽוֹתְךָ֤ בַת־אָבִ֨יךָ֙ א֣וֹ בַת־אִמֶּ֔ךָ מוֹלֶ֣דֶת בַּ֔יִת א֖וֹ מוֹלֶ֣דֶת ח֑וּץ לֹ֥א תְגַלֶּ֖ה עֶרְוָתָֽן׃
    This is from Leviticus 18:9. It reads: “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, whether your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born at home or away.” This is, of course, talking about sexual relations.

    When Abraham went to Avimelech, he told him that Sarah was his sister. It later came out that she was his half-sister through his father (Genesis 20:12). How can this have been acceptable for Abraham, who is said to have kept God’s laws (Genesis 26:5)?
    I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jameson View Post
    עֶרְוַ֨ת אֲחֽוֹתְךָ֤ בַת־אָבִ֨יךָ֙ א֣וֹ בַת־אִמֶּ֔ךָ מוֹלֶ֣דֶת בַּ֔יִת א֖וֹ מוֹלֶ֣דֶת ח֑וּץ לֹ֥א תְגַלֶּ֖ה עֶרְוָתָֽן׃
    This is from Leviticus 18:9. It reads: “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, whether your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born at home or away.” This is, of course, talking about sexual relations.

    When Abraham went to Avimelech, he told him that Sarah was his sister. It later came out that she was his half-sister through his father (Genesis 20:12). How can this have been acceptable for Abraham, who is said to have kept God’s laws (Genesis 26:5)?
    Tryen to set us up for some sort of checkmate.

    Christians normally don't care about laws attall sir. They THINK laws are moot and void. They are in fact ATHEIST to laws sir. Just like you are to God sir.
    Shema will change the Christian World.

    Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

    Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nothead, please don’t respond in my thread. I’m not interested in your childish quips. I would like to hear from the adults in the room. Thanks.
      I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jameson View Post
        Nothead, please don’t respond in my thread. I’m not interested in your childish quips. I would like to hear from the adults in the room. Thanks.
        You mean you would like to STUMP UP those of us who ARE NO EXPERTS on Judaic Law sir.

        From your JUDAIC KNOWLEDGE sir. Gut golly I see you know you and love you sir. That don't mean I will play this game sir. I am EXPLAINING why NO ONE is gonna LIKE to play this game sir.

        It's a SET-UP sir. In the DRUG business this is called an AMBUSH sir.
        Shema will change the Christian World.

        Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

        Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by nothead View Post

          You mean you would like to STUMP UP those of us who ARE NO EXPERTS on Judaic Law sir.

          From your JUDAIC KNOWLEDGE sir. Gut golly I see you know you and love you sir. That don't mean I will play this game sir. I am EXPLAINING why NO ONE is gonna LIKE to play this game sir.

          It's a SET-UP sir. In the DRUG business this is called an AMBUSH sir.
          This is my second request. Stay off of this thread. We have an agreement on this forum that if the OP asks someone to stay off of the thread, he will agree. I do not welcome your replies to this topic. I want serious discussion. Do not respond further. (All further responses from you will be ignored and flagged.)
          I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jameson View Post

            This is my second request. Stay off of this thread. We have an agreement on this forum that if the OP asks someone to stay off of the thread, he will agree. I do not welcome your replies to this topic. I want serious discussion. Do not respond further. (All further responses from you will be ignored and flagged.)
            Surely since I already said I wasn't gonna PLAY sir. All YOU have to do is acknowledge what I said sir. To be the truth and then I will let you go sir.

            I have to admit, your RED FLAGGING has been effective in the past howsomever sir. Since I DO catch a moderator break often sir..
            Last edited by CARM Admin; 02-13-18, 12:41 PM. Reason: post permitted per CARM rules if they stick to the topic/alerts should be to rule violations
            Shema will change the Christian World.

            Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

            Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

            Comment


            • #7
              Having flagged that message, I turn to the rest of the forum.

              Does anyone know if this is mentioned by any commentator or if it is discussed anywhere? I don't see how this could be justified.

              There is a rabbinic enactment against the eating of dairy and meat together, yet Abraham served his guests meat and butter together in the same meal in Genesis 18. They say that the law against mixture of meat and dairy hadn't gone into effect, since that is a rabbinic enactment, so there was no prohibition on Abraham. That is certainly reasonable. However, there was a Torah law against marrying your sister. Do people say that they were actually cousins? How is this dealt with?

              Thanks.
              I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

              Comment


              • #8
                Note to all users; Post permitted per CARM rules from anyone if they stick to the topic/alerts should be to CARM rule violations. If users on the forum make an agreement to stay out of thread, is NOT per our rules since we permit anyone to respond to any thread and alerts should only be sent to CARM Rule violations. Ignore the poster if you do not want to respond or read their posts.
                * "But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith," (1 Tim. 1:5).
                * "Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. 6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned, as it were, with salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person," (Col. 4:5-6). NASB

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jameson View Post
                  Having flagged that message, I turn to the rest of the forum.

                  Does anyone know if this is mentioned by any commentator or if it is discussed anywhere? I don't see how this could be justified.

                  There is a rabbinic enactment against the eating of dairy and meat together, yet Abraham served his guests meat and butter together in the same meal in Genesis 18. They say that the law against mixture of meat and dairy hadn't gone into effect, since that is a rabbinic enactment, so there was no prohibition on Abraham. That is certainly reasonable. However, there was a Torah law against marrying your sister. Do people say that they were actually cousins? How is this dealt with?

                  Thanks.
                  Noted that you would not admit that this OP is a set-up sir. I will turn this over to anyone who would LIKE to haggle on this one now sir.

                  Good luck. Mishnah law ain't NO ONE's field here sir. Targum commentaries ain't NO ONE's PHD here sir. Bye now and again gut luck, spinmeister.

                  Oh...I take that back. Steeven Speencer might take you on. I cannot say his name for ANOTHER red flag. Least I know what a NAME is, Jameson.

                  And you JUST ADMITTED your real strategy sir. Get me OFF this site so that you can have your way and SAVE FACE sir.
                  Last edited by nothead; 02-13-18, 12:52 PM.
                  Shema will change the Christian World.

                  Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                  Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CARM Admin View Post
                    Note to all users; Post permitted per CARM rules from anyone if they stick to the topic/alerts should be to CARM rule violations. If users on the forum make an agreement to stay out of thread, is NOT per our rules since we permit anyone to respond to any thread and alerts should only be sent to CARM Rule violations. Ignore the poster if you do not want to respond or read their posts.
                    Is forum admin aware that the ignore feature is faulty and does not work on the forum? I've tried multiple times to place two specific users on ignore, and it doesn't work at all.
                    I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For those who are interested in why I created this topic...

                      I'm reading through the whole Bible this year in the original languages. I'm reading the Tanach in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Currently, I'm in the last half of the book of Leviticus, where I encountered this specific law (Lev. 18). I read in Genesis last month about Abraham's adventures with Avimelech, so when I read this law – because it specifically formulated "your father's daughter" – I was reminded of how Abraham told Avimelech that Sarah really was his sister, the daughter of his father. So, I wondered how this is explained in the religious literature (of whatever tradition).

                      So, anyone who is serious is welcome to participate. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

                      My personal opinion is the same as the meat and dairy thing... the law hadn't been instituted yet, so Abraham wasn't to be held accountable for it. However, I think it's generally a human moral law (embedded in our psyches) that incest is filthy. Could that be a cultural thing? I don't know.
                      I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jameson View Post
                        For those who are interested in why I created this topic...

                        I'm reading through the whole Bible this year in the original languages. I'm reading the Tanach in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Currently, I'm in the last half of the book of Leviticus, where I encountered this specific law (Lev. 18). I read in Genesis last month about Abraham's adventures with Avimelech, so when I read this law – because it specifically formulated "your father's daughter" – I was reminded of how Abraham told Avimelech that Sarah really was his sister, the daughter of his father. So, I wondered how this is explained in the religious literature (of whatever tradition).

                        So, anyone who is serious is welcome to participate. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

                        My personal opinion is the same as the meat and dairy thing... the law hadn't been instituted yet, so Abraham wasn't to be held accountable for it. However, I think it's generally a human moral law (embedded in our psyches) that incest is filthy. Could that be a cultural thing? I don't know.
                        God's laws are made as a reflection or in view of God's creation. I would not participate in the outline of the OP, but will comment upon what you said here.

                        Christians who are HEART CIRCUMCISED already have IN THEIR PSYCHES the impetus to know God's will. His WILL was formerly by the letter. NOW in our hearts sir.

                        You will NOT FIND a heart-circumcised CHRISTIAN who will willfully engage in incest for instance sir.
                        Shema will change the Christian World.

                        Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                        Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jameson View Post

                          Is forum admin aware that the ignore feature is faulty and does not work on the forum? I've tried multiple times to place two specific users on ignore, and it doesn't work at all.
                          EDIT. You can ignore without using the ignore feature. I can ignore the WHOLE Trinity forum for instance. Sometimes I do. EDIT
                          This is about the fourth time I've told you this sir. Also I've SAID, you were better off IGNORING me sir. EDITED
                          Last edited by Mod10; 02-13-18, 02:18 PM.
                          Shema will change the Christian World.

                          Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                          Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Reposting, since the thread is being jumbled with words that I'm not reading.

                            For those who are interested in why I created this topic...

                            I'm reading through the whole Bible this year in the original languages. I'm reading the Tanach in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Currently, I'm in the last half of the book of Leviticus, where I encountered this specific law (Lev. 18). I read in Genesis last month about Abraham's adventures with Avimelech, so when I read this law – because it specifically formulated "your father's daughter" – I was reminded of how Abraham told Avimelech that Sarah really was his sister, the daughter of his father. So, I wondered how this is explained in the religious literature (of whatever tradition).

                            So, anyone who is serious is welcome to participate. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

                            My personal opinion is the same as the meat and dairy thing... the law hadn't been instituted yet, so Abraham wasn't to be held accountable for it. However, I think it's generally a human moral law (embedded in our psyches) that incest is filthy. Could that be a cultural thing? I don't know.
                            I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jameson View Post
                              Reposting, since the thread is being jumbled with words that I'm not reading.

                              For those who are interested in why I created this topic...

                              I'm reading through the whole Bible this year in the original languages. I'm reading the Tanach in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Currently, I'm in the last half of the book of Leviticus, where I encountered this specific law (Lev. 18). I read in Genesis last month about Abraham's adventures with Avimelech, so when I read this law – because it specifically formulated "your father's daughter" – I was reminded of how Abraham told Avimelech that Sarah really was his sister, the daughter of his father. So, I wondered how this is explained in the religious literature (of whatever tradition).

                              So, anyone who is serious is welcome to participate. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

                              My personal opinion is the same as the meat and dairy thing... the law hadn't been instituted yet, so Abraham wasn't to be held accountable for it. However, I think it's generally a human moral law (embedded in our psyches) that incest is filthy. Could that be a cultural thing? I don't know.
                              The original theological conundrum: How did Adam and Eve have children and THEIR children come about WITHOUT incest?

                              Bible do not say. Speculators speculate. IF incest occurred, it was NOT considered by God what it IS considered today. Incest.

                              Many laws are GUIDLINES which do not cover ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. When you make a LAW absolute for ALL CIRCUMSTANCES you just setten YOURSELF up for ambush.

                              And what is the result of THAT? IMPRISONED and MAYBE now an ATHEIST.

                              In general, however...the REALITY of our world has at least in original content been THE SAME. And the Jews were ORIGINALLY given the Ten and the Shema LATER since they were not READY FOR SHEMA, until THEY had suffered and gone through the 40 year desert. So then the CREATION has been THE SAME until Messiah came. The laws REFLECTING the ideal in nature were for the purpose of dealing with our environment UNTIL THEN. Now that heart circumcision is POSSIBLE a new ideal has come into being. Christians known by their LOVE of YHWH first and others after. The HEART of ALL LAW. ALL LAW is informed by Shema. The love of YHWH FIRST..

                              What Law is NEVER under ANY circumstances by the letter EVER opposed? Shema always and forever. Love YHWH NO MATTER WHAT.
                              Last edited by nothead; 02-13-18, 01:58 PM.
                              Shema will change the Christian World.

                              Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                              Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                              Comment

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