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Philo's use of the term θεός

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  • John Milton
    started a topic Philo's use of the term θεός

    Philo's use of the term θεός

    ....Is in line with the Unitarian use. Here's a good resource.

    Let's start with the definition of monotheism:


    25
    Those who would argue that deification contradicts monotheism must state care-fully what they mean by monotheism. Typically ancient monotheism amounts to the idea of the high God’s absolute power, not to the idea that there was a numerically singular divine being. See further Peter Hayman, “Monotheism—a Misused Word in JewishStudies?”
    JJS
    42 (1991): 1–15; Polymnia Athanassiadi and Michael Frede, eds.,
    Pagan Monotheism in Late Antiquity
    (Oxford: Clarendon, 1999); John J. Collins, “Powers in Heaven:God, Gods, and Angels in the Dead Sea Scrolls”, in
    Religion in the Dead Sea Scrolls
    (eds. John J. Collins and Robert A. Kugler; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2000), 9–28; Mark S. Smith,
    The Origins of Biblical Monotheism
    (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000); NathanMacDonald,
    Deuteronomy and the Meaning of “Monotheism”
    (TŸbingen: Mohr Siebeck, 2003);Stephen Mitchell and Peter van Nuffelen, eds.,
    One God: Pagan Monotheism in the RomanEmpire
    (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2010); Beate Pongratz-Leisten, ed.
    Reconsidering the Concept of Revolutionary Monotheism
    (Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns, 2011);Litwa,
    We Are Being Transformed
    , 229–57.

  • nothead
    replied
    Continuing on about Bart Ehrman's view of Philo:

    ...by the time of Jesus and his followers, most Jews were almost certainly monotheists. But even as they believed that there was only one God Almighty, it was widely held that there were other divine beings -- angels, cherubim, seraphim, principalities, powers, hypostases...

    This last TERM being of Philo specifically, and not of OT canon at all.

    Remember, Philo was the culprit who made the Word a "hypostasis," which is a WHO instead of a WHAT, what God speaks forth, the dominant Semitic definition of the Memra.

    ...Moreover, there was some sense of continuity -- not only discontinuity -- between the divine and human realms. And there was a kind of spectrum of divinity: the Angel of the Lord, already in scripture, could be both angel and God.

    How Jesus Became God, Bart Ehrman, p. 83.

    This last sentence I disagree with. I do not think there was in a last analysis any view of angels BEING God Himself at all. They represented God, and sometimes even spoke for God in the first person, as a mouthpiece or instrument of YHWH. They did not come to earth as an incarnation or veil or costume-being OF YHWH.

    This was the impetus of the gnostic tradition, making God PRETEND to be a man on earth, with a so-called COSTUME of flesh. Leading to all kinds of wayward speculations. INCLUDING the so-called Incarnation of Jesus.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by Barry Hofstetter View Post

    If you've ever paid attention to anything Jameson has written, you know that he started with biblical Hebrew. Yes, he knows it fluently, which is more than can be said for certain others who post here.
    Certainly if you took Psalm 110:1 seriously AS RENDERED, sir, certainly you would be unitarian sir.

    Alas and alack sir. A lack of simple common sense sir.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by John Milton View Post
    Nothead, do you have some formal training in Hebrew or are you an autodidact ?
    I'm an auto something. Otto Warmbier I hope not. The Koreans got him and how he died no one knows.

    Man, I don't even know the ALPHABET. A Hebrew cop would get me handcuffed forwards AND backwards.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    He knows drinking flowently.
    Humans are vessels to be filled. Satan knows that. Those who refuse to be filled with the Holy Spirit, will be filled by something else and/or by someone -- be it by alcohol, or by three demonic entities, or by pride, or by ambition, etc. . No human vessel is able to remain empty.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Originally posted by CL4P-TP View Post
    ?אני מבין קצת עברית. וגם
    Can you read "a little bit" of Biblical Hebrew ? Say Genesis Chapter 1 ?

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Originally posted by Barry Hofstetter View Post

    If you've ever paid attention to anything Jameson has written, you know that he started with biblical Hebrew. Yes, he knows it fluently, which is more than can be said for certain others who post here.
    He may have started with it, but it is not true that he is fluent in Biblical Hebrew.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry Hofstetter
    replied
    Originally posted by John Milton View Post

    You may know “Israeli” fluently, but you do not know Biblical Hebrew fluently.
    If you've ever paid attention to anything Jameson has written, you know that he started with biblical Hebrew. Yes, he knows it fluently, which is more than can be said for certain others who post here.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Originally posted by nothead View Post

    You drink and know things. At least you are a philosopher. "I drink therefore I am." The implied predication is, drunk. Lessen you think you are your own God. Some atheists do.

    Waitaminute. I AM. A NAME of YHWH oh NO.
    There is a spirit of Sodom in Israel in these last days ( Jerusalem is one of the World capitals for “Gay Pride”) where Sodomy, drunkenness , foolish conversations, and all manner of perversity are held to be normal things and where those who rally against such acts are slandered and called many names . Revelation 11:8 comes to mind:

    καὶ τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τῆς πλατείας τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης, ἥτις καλεῖται πνευματικῶς Σόδομα καὶ Αἴγυπτος, ὅπου καὶ ὁ Κύριος αὐτῶν ἐσταυρώθη.

    Leave a comment:


  • CL4P-TP
    replied
    Originally posted by John Milton View Post

    How about yourself CL4P ?
    ?אני מבין קצת עברית. וגם

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Originally posted by CL4P-TP View Post
    How about yourself CL4P ?

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by John Milton View Post

    You may know “Israeli” fluently, but you do not know Biblical Hebrew fluently.
    He knows drinking flowently.

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by Jameson View Post

    I've written long explanations of my journey out of faith, and hedonism did not come into the equation. I'm convinced that you're as much a hedonist as I am, but I am not bothered by the concept. You just find your pleasure in belittling people and being generally evil, and I find mine in books and drinking. "I drink and know things," as Tyrion Lannister famously said.
    You drink and know things. At least you are a philosopher. "I drink therefore I am." The implied predication is, drunk. Lessen you think you are your own God. Some atheists do.

    Waitaminute. I AM. A NAME of YHWH oh NO.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Milton
    replied
    Nothead, do you have some formal training in Hebrew or are you an autodidact ?

    Leave a comment:


  • nothead
    replied
    Originally posted by Jameson View Post

    I know the Hebrew language fluently. That's what I mean by "us." Those of us who know the language. You cannot tell me what Hebrew means. You only pull Hebrew words that people have fed you, and you use them as if they were magical. That's shameful. Hebrew is not a magic language.
    The mechanics of the language itself I fully acknowledge being a rook. This includes the Koine for Koine dudes.

    The conceptual aspects of language I have a little knowledge in. Basics, like calling the coronated king in Psalm 45 "Oh god." Ex 7:1 7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. I know that this is "elohim" and I know the basic semantic range of the term. I know that Psalm 110: is, YHWH said to my adon the second "L(l)ord" being a reference to a man/lord. These basics are very basic. Nothing magical and nothing genius.

    I never said Hebrew was magical. It is the Mother Tongue of the People of the Promise. Salvation is of the Jews, but you ain't got any faith in YHWH so then...

    I noticed you did not refute anything I said specifically, but only disparaged my scholarship on the matter. I don't get down to the technicalities; I only judge between scholars who speak of them.

    But whatever you know about, take it all the way. This is the survival motto of the ancient asian country I get most my own DNA. In my world 90% have no idea who the God of their own religion is.
    But for you sir, this is a moot and void subject. This is because you only watch the monkeys in the cage here, doing their monkey motions and making their monkey sounds. Rhetorically speaking however, I'd rather be a monkey than the dingleberry dangling on his heiny sir.


    Leave a comment:

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