Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Transliterating Hebrew

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Transliterating Hebrew

    Something that Ive noticed recently in reading online is that people transliterate Hebrew oddly.

    A few days ago, I saw something posted on Facebook in which יִשְׂרָאֵל Yiśrāʾēl was transliterated as Y'israel, as if there were something in Hebrew that would justify an apostrophe after the Y. This reminds me of how some people transliterate יֵשׁוּעַ Yēaʿ, which clearly has a long vowel in the first syllable, as Y'shua, as if it had no vowel at all in that syllable. Then again, I did find וִישׁוּעַ vaʿ in one rabbinic text, which might justify יְשׁוּעַ Yĕaʿ as a less-common form of the name.

    One thing that got me yesterday was when I read a transliteration of שָׁלִיחַ ālaḥ on this forum and מָשִׁיחַ māaḥ on another as if there were no a-vowel in the first syllable of each. They were transliterated as sheliach and meshiach, respectively. The drop of the first vowel is only in the construct state, in which we will say שְׁלִיחַ יהוה ĕlaḥ YHWH YHWHs emissary and מְשִׁיחַ יהוה mĕaḥ YHWH YHWHs anointed.

    However, when youre talking about the term on its own, it needs to be in the absolute state. Its like writing θεὸς instead of θεός when discussing the word in English. When youre discussing the term, it is normal convention to use the acute accent; similarly, it is normal convention (and makes best sense) to use the absolute form when referring to Hebrew nouns that are not in construct relation to another noun. Thus, you refer to כָּבוֹד kāḇḏ on its own and כְּבוֹד יהוה kĕḇḏ YHWH as a construct phrase. In the first, you must have an a-vowel, while in the second it reduces to a shva.
    I have permission to post on the Biblical Languages forum, as per email correspondence with Diane S.

  • #2
    A relatively sober post, if I may say so.

    Comment


    • #3
      A useful OP, but it is fighting a losing battle against a socio-linguistic convention: people bastardize, elide, and standardize when it comes to foreign words, and this is further corrupted by writing conventions. Only in academic literature would we expect standardization, and CARM is decidedly not that. If we write "Kabod" but then "Kebod YHWH," it is not clear to the average person that the same word is being used. Talking about language is stressful enough on people! Inculcating morphological concerns in English transliteration of low-register dialog would only increase the confusion I think.

      P.S. Even your words above cannot be standardized, because the sublinear strokes beneath your spirantized consonants are not consistent across all of Biblical Hebrew: the bet and dalet remained hard in EBH!
      Inactive, except to upload and bump.
      I wiped my slate clean and followed only biblical data to see if Unitarianism was true. After 40 weeks, I knew it couldn't be.
      After 5 years, very few could even interact with the exegeses, so I am moving on.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ACAinstructor View Post
        A useful OP, but it is fighting a losing battle against a socio-linguistic convention: people bastardize, elide, and standardize when it comes to foreign words, and this is further corrupted by writing conventions. Only in academic literature would we expect standardization, and CARM is decidedly not that. If we write "Kabod" but then "Kebod YHWH," it is not clear to the average person that the same word is being used. Talking about language is stressful enough on people! Inculcating morphological concerns in English transliteration of low-register dialog would only increase the confusion I think.

        P.S. Even your words above cannot be standardized, because the sublinear strokes beneath your spirantized consonants are not consistent across all of Biblical Hebrew: the bet and dalet remained hard in EBH!
        Teaching at a Jewish day school, I get to see transliterated Hebrew a lot. The general rule is generosity -- as long as the term is recognizable, it's okay. Now, for formal academic work, a higher standard is necessary.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Barry Hofstetter View Post

          Teaching at a Jewish day school, I get to see transliterated Hebrew a lot. The general rule is generosity -- as long as the term is recognizable, it's okay. Now, for formal academic work, a higher standard is necessary.
          Why is a formal academic in a different class than what you teach your students, senor? They get a different set of data points, ala ACAInstructorofkiddies sir?
          Shema will change the Christian World.

          Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

          Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nothead View Post

            Why is a formal academic in a different class than what you teach your students, senor? They get a different set of data points, ala ACAInstructorofkiddies sir?
            I teach Latin.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Barry Hofstetter View Post

              I teach Latin.
              I teach Barry Hoffsitters. So what sir? Did you answer my question?
              Shema will change the Christian World.

              Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

              Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

              Comment

              Working...
              X