Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Grammar analysis of “Trinity” verses..

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Grammar analysis of “Trinity” verses..

    Here are the “proofs”. I will analyze the grammar and other features of these apparent proofs to see if there is any truth to the matter, or whether the whole thing is a continuous centuries old diabolical deception which preys on the gullible and which often relies on demon possessed , money-loving con artists to spread it’s message.

    So here are the Trinitarian arguments:


    What is the Trinity? - Kenneth Copeland Ministry
    The Trinity refers to the fact that God is revealed in three persons, and yet He is one God. Each person (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is wholly God—not just a part of God. And together, they are God in oneness. (See Matthew 28:19.)

    Each Person of the Trinity has individual characteristics, responsibilities and operation. Yet none ever acts independently or in opposition to the others. There is always total unity and harmony. “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” (1 John 5:7).

    Interestingly enough, the word Trinity itself is not found in the Bible. But the concept of the Trinity can be found from the beginning in the book of Genesis. In the account of Creation, God said, “Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness...” (Genesis 1:26).

    Another characteristic of the Trinity is order. It is not an order of importance, but an order of operation. All plans come from the Father, through the Son, by the Holy Spirit. The Father initiates, the Son proclaims (He is the Word in John 1), and the Holy Spirit executes. Each activity is vital but incomplete without the others.

    An example of the Trinity working together in harmony is found in Matthew 3:16-17: “After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy.'”
    Let’s take some time to digest above before inspecting the “proofs” next post.


  • #2
    Seriously? And that famous theologian, Copeland. Can you ever post about anything else? There's a whole lot in the Bible besides your pet subjects.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Barry Hofstetter View Post
      Seriously? And that famous theologian, Copeland.
      He (see here) is your Trinitarian brother, with whom millions of other Trinitarians agree. You will be spending eternity with him. So might as well start getting to know each other better in the here and now.

      Can y"ou ever post about anything else? There's a whole lot in the Bible besides your pet subjects.
      Nothing else in the bible should matter to you if the doctrine which you and Kenneth espouse is shown to be false and unbiblical. Shouldn't it be your "pet subject ?"
      Last edited by John Milton; 07-30-19, 06:08 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        So the first proof text for the Trinity is apparently 1 John 5-7 --

        “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”
        Problem with this is that it is a forgery. Wallace, a Trinitarian, at least realizes this, see here. As one commentator in the video (himself Trinitarian) pointed out, had it been original it would have been "put at the top of the stack" by the 4th and 5th century councils. In other words, any other so-called "proof text" in the bible for the so-called Trinity doctrine is not as strong as this forgery.

        Here is the actual text of 1 John 5:7 --

        ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες,

        Not ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ Πατὴρ, ὁ Λόγος καὶ τὸ ἅγιον Πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι.

        Here is 1 John 5:7 and 8

        ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες,τὸ Πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσιν.
        Notice that the true reading actually disproves the "personality" of the Holy Spirit, since it is lumped together with two other things (not persons), namely τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα ( the water and the blood) suggesting that it too is a thing, otherwise it would not belong with the others. Children know this to be true (see here). Also notice that ἕν is neuter, not masculine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Observe that the FAKE reading would have included a "confirmed" person (namely the Father) into the mix to give the false suggestion that the Spirit is also a person, in addition to the apparent Logos (pre - flesh), also an interpolation. So two out of the three so-called persons in the corrupted version are not even in the real verse.


          By the same token, the ACTUAL reading has two "confirmed" non-persons (namely the water and the blood) which suggests to any fair minded person that the third is also a non-person.

          Comment

          Working...
          X